87 replies to this topic

[cazidin]

Greetings Mechwarriors. Today I have a simple question. When would you use a Large Laser over a Large Pulse Laser and vice versa if piloting an IS mech? Is either outright superior and if so, how and why?

[sycocys]

Use LL if there is a weight/slot limitation. Otherwise LPL is far better.

Missed the why - burn time.

Edited by sycocys, 24 March 2016 - 06:49 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Once upon a time, the LPL was Terribad.
Then it was good
Then it was normalized
Now it is kickass.

The LL has largely always been mediocre...rarely outright bad, just inferior to most alternatives.

Presently...3LPLs is a very solid choice, if you can mount it and cool it effectively, do it.
3LLs saves you 6 tons, but is far less effective.


As for why? The sub 100M range difference (365 VS 450) isn't a large amount, but the higher damage+shorter durations mean you put damage where it counts. The same heat value also means it doesn't have much opportunity cost, aside from the 2 tons (and potentially 2 heatsinks) per laser.

It's hard to twist damage applied that fast.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

For me it's mostly build dependent. Like my Black Knights, Battlemaster, and Wubshees roll iLPLs and iMLs.

My Quickdraw runs iERLLs.

My Stalker and one of my Thuds run iLLs.

It's kinda a tonnage and fitting thing.

Two iLPLs runs 14 tons for 22 damage. Three iLPLs run 21 tons for 33 damage. Three iLLs run 15 tons for 27 damage.

The iLLs have a niche between the iLPLs and iERLLs. They out range the iLPLs by about 150m and are out ranged by the iERLLs by about 150m. Counting quirks and mods, that is.

Hope this helps

Edited by Saint Scarlett Johan, 24 March 2016 - 06:55 PM.

[LORD ORION]

You should always take LPL now.
Not to long ago there were insane quirks that made some mechs wreck face with large lasers.

Now all crazy weapon quirks are removed and replaced with crazy structure quirks on many IS mechs.

Not hard to see what happened, large lasers without super quirks barely have any range advantage over super boosted large pulse lasers (considering TT stats) which shoot faster with less duration for the same heat, mounted on tanky buffed IS mechs.

Edited by LORD ORION, 24 March 2016 - 06:57 PM.

[Ultimax]

cazidin, on 24 March 2016 - 06:44 PM, said:

Greetings Mechwarriors. Today I have a simple question. When would you use a Large Laser over a Large Pulse Laser and vice versa if piloting an IS mech? Is either outright superior and if so, how and why?

You use the LLAS when you:

• Need more range but not the heat of ERs
  
• When your mech has LLAS specific quirks
  
• When 15 tons for 27 damage makes more sense for your build than 21 tons for 33 damage (higher damage per ton or lower tonnage requirement)

5x LLAS is a pretty common comp build, depending on match and strat.

Edited by Ultimax, 24 March 2016 - 07:01 PM.

[jweltsch]

cazidin, on 24 March 2016 - 06:44 PM, said:

Greetings Mechwarriors. Today I have a simple question. When would you use a Large Laser over a Large Pulse Laser and vice versa if piloting an IS mech? Is either outright superior and if so, how and why?

Personally I cant think of when I would take a regular large laser over a large pulse when I could take one or the other. Now, ERLL has a place in sniping, but my favorite mech and loadout by far is still my quad LPL maurader, max xl engine and the rest in heat sinks, I can alpha fire twice with no overheat, and if I space the two groups (have em grouped by left/right) by about a half to a quarter of a second I get no ghost heat and I can get 5-6 shots off before heat kicks in.

[cazidin]

Thank you for your input so far everyone! Since the possibility of quirks were raised what type and what percentage turns Large lasers from OK weapons to ALL THE LARGE LASERS? I assume an extra 10% range or -10% duration, similar to what Medium Lasers get on some chassis.

[Wolfways]

LPL's sound better.

Range matters little in MWO as most of the arena sized maps negate long range combat.

[Triordinant]

cazidin, on 24 March 2016 - 07:10 PM, said:

Thank you for your input so far everyone! Since the possibility of quirks were raised what type and what percentage turns Large lasers from OK weapons to ALL THE LARGE LASERS? I assume an extra 10% range or -10% duration, similar to what Medium Lasers get on some chassis.

Here's the complete quirk list. Take a few minutes and you'll know which 'mechs are best for LLs and LPLs:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ght_innersphere

Edited by Triordinant, 24 March 2016 - 07:24 PM.

[Adamski]

Ultimax, on 24 March 2016 - 07:00 PM, said:

You use the LLAS when you:

• Need more range but not the heat of ERs
  
• When your mech has LLAS specific quirks
  
• When 15 tons for 27 damage makes more sense for your build than 21 tons for 33 damage (higher damage per ton or lower tonnage requirement)

5x LLAS is a pretty common comp build, depending on match and strat.

Your math is wrong, 27 damage for 15 tons is 1.8 damage per ton, the LPL is 33 damage for 21 tons, or 1.57 damage per ton.

The standard LL has better damage per ton than the LPL. Even after you account for the shorter beam duration of the LPL on its cycle time, the LL still has a better DPS/T

Edited by Adamski, 24 March 2016 - 07:29 PM.

[Gyrok]

Adamski, on 24 March 2016 - 07:28 PM, said:

Your math is wrong, 27 damage for 15 tons is 1.8 damage per ton, the LPL is 33 damage for 21 tons, or 1.57 damage per ton.

The standard LL has better damage per ton than the LPL. Even after you account for the shorter beam duration of the LPL on its cycle time, the LL still has a better DPS/T

11 damage over 0.6 seconds is significantly more damage per tick than 9 damage over 0.9 seconds

[Ultimax]

Adamski, on 24 March 2016 - 07:28 PM, said:

Your math is wrong, 27 damage for 15 tons is 1.8 damage per ton, the LPL is 33 damage for 21 tons, or 1.57 damage per ton.

The standard LL has better damage per ton than the LPL. Even after you account for the shorter beam duration of the LPL on its cycle time, the LL still has a better DPS/T

You need to re-read, because that's literally what I said without spelling it out.

[Bishop Steiner]

cazidin, on 24 March 2016 - 06:44 PM, said:

Greetings Mechwarriors. Today I have a simple question. When would you use a Large Laser over a Large Pulse Laser and vice versa if piloting an IS mech? Is either outright superior and if so, how and why?

Really depends.

Singularly? LPL unless tonnage is an issue. Then? I'd grab an ERLL.

In pairs or triplicate? Depends on the design of the mech. I like 3x ERLL on my RFL-3D. Nice and high points to sweep the ridges from afar.

But on a tougher mech, or ones with low mounted hardpoints? LPL are way better than almost anything for Close to Medium range combat. LPL and AC10? Like Peas and Carrots.

Only time I really use standard LLs are when heat AND tonnage are an issue.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 March 2016 - 07:55 PM.

[Rhavin]

pinpoint damage > all other damage. Damage to heat ratio combined with the low pulse burn time is unbeatable by anything but a guass rifle. Only its ammo free and has no jinky firing mechanic weights a lot less and won't explode on you. Doesn't have exceptional range like the guass, but most maps are not great for guass anyways. Same when put up beside PPCs which have awesome range, and near useless projectile speed at any range thier insane heat would make them useful at. Pinpoint or near pinpoint damage rules.

Example. I had a 957 damage game in a Bk with 3 LPL and 3 MPL. 5 KS, 5 KMD 4 solo kills 2 assists. I figure about 160 damage a kill. Mechs killed Dire Wolf, King Crab, Awesome, and two Archers. To be fair my team was tanking a lot of that damage do to their poor positioning, but I had great trades, and was right up on the front. I still ended match at 56%. 12-4 win. Was another player on my team with 540 damage and 3 kills. He was in a Zeus that was an AC 10 and LPL build. He was the closest to my damage. All of the rest of my team had LRMS or regular lasers , one other broke 500 damage with LRMS, one broke 400 damage, 2 broke 300, no one else hit 250. Point being that putting all the damage in one spot like me and the Zeus pilot paid out the win. 150 damage to CT will kill any mech in the game, and it takes a lot less for the majority of them. You can do it for less damage if you destroy a side torso that has an XL in it. So 2 players had 8 kills at 160 damage a kill then everyone else spread so much damage that while they should have had kills most of them didn't. Most matches are like that though. Hell I have more than a few myself. It's great advice that we give over on the new player forums, use pulse lasers every chance you get. You will get more kills, and faster kills too.

Edited by Rhavin, 24 March 2016 - 08:32 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Generally, I prefer LPL, but even though they're weaker LL's can do just fine, that little bit longer burn time means you're staring a little longer, but you can sustain LL damage in any arena just fine.

Its the same argument with AC-20 vs Gauss, 1 ton difference, but you have universal usage vs niche range advantage.

LPL for any range quirked mech, LL for any other.

[QuantumButler]

The LPL pretty much has the best damage per heat ratio of any energy weapon in game I'm p. sure.

Pretty much any case you'd use regular LLs you should probably use ERLLs instead though.

LLs are only for if you don't have the tonnage for lpls, like if you're a lighter mech.

[Khobai]

why would you ever use a LL over an ERLL? Its 50% more range for 1 extra heat.

LL has needed a buff for a while now.

And LPL need a nerf.

Edited by Khobai, 24 March 2016 - 09:17 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Mcgral18, on 24 March 2016 - 06:50 PM, said:

Once upon a time, the LPL was Terribad.
Then it was good
Then it was normalized
Now it is kickass.

The LL has largely always been mediocre...rarely outright bad, just inferior to most alternatives.

Presently...3LPLs is a very solid choice, if you can mount it and cool it effectively, do it.
3LLs saves you 6 tons, but is far less effective.


As for why? The sub 100M range difference (365 VS 450) isn't a large amount, but the higher damage+shorter durations mean you put damage where it counts. The same heat value also means it doesn't have much opportunity cost, aside from the 2 tons (and potentially 2 heatsinks) per laser.

It's hard to twist damage applied that fast.

Pretty much.

For added flavor, add a Gauss. (HGN-732B <3)

[QuantumButler]

Khobai, on 24 March 2016 - 09:17 PM, said:

why would you ever use a LL over an ERLL? Its 50% more range for 1 extra heat.

LL has needed a buff for a while now.

And LPL need a nerf.

For CW.

I pretty much only use lpls in the group or solo q, but the extra range is very essential in CW assuming IS side.

For clans yeah, the ERLL is total trash and sees zero use.

Edited by QuantumButler, 24 March 2016 - 10:20 PM.