80 replies to this topic

[Ordate]

As a unit less pilot I find the misconceptions and venomous rhetoric about what a unit less pilot "is" amusing. Apparently I don't want to work as a team, field lrms and machine guns, and all sorts of other nonsense.

Truth of the matter is I'm solo for one reason. Time. I can't dedicate time to a unit to be there at specific times, or be a real "team member". So I float solo, do the occasional faction match, and hope it's with people that will call targets etc. Funny, sounds like this unit less pilot wants to work as a team.

Now the rhetoric here pretty much reinforces the idea that I will remain tagless. Honestly, who wants to associate with toxicity?

[Jon Gotham]

Ordate, on 02 April 2016 - 05:41 PM, said:

As a unit less pilot I find the misconceptions and venomous rhetoric about what a unit less pilot "is" amusing. Apparently I don't want to work as a team, field lrms and machine guns, and all sorts of other nonsense.

Truth of the matter is I'm solo for one reason. Time. I can't dedicate time to a unit to be there at specific times, or be a real "team member". So I float solo, do the occasional faction match, and hope it's with people that will call targets etc. Funny, sounds like this unit less pilot wants to work as a team.

Now the rhetoric here pretty much reinforces the idea that I will remain tagless. Honestly, who wants to associate with toxicity?

Exactly. The opposite is also 100% true matey.More so in fact. If I wanted to avoid said toxicity I'd have to quit online gaming.

[MischiefSC]

There's a difference between so.eonr without the time for a unit and a solo player.

You can make a single player unit and play solo in unit queue. Play to your team, coordinate and communicate. All due props. It's how I'm playing 90% of the time and I'm not alone.

If you want teamwork, coordination and communication and are not trying to punish people who use it you're a team player and on the unit side of the line.

[VorpalAnvil]

Ordate, on 02 April 2016 - 05:41 PM, said:

As a unit less pilot I find the misconceptions and venomous rhetoric about what a unit less pilot "is" amusing. Apparently I don't want to work as a team, field lrms and machine guns, and all sorts of other nonsense.

Truth of the matter is I'm solo for one reason. Time. I can't dedicate time to a unit to be there at specific times, or be a real "team member". So I float solo, do the occasional faction match, and hope it's with people that will call targets etc. Funny, sounds like this unit less pilot wants to work as a team.

Now the rhetoric here pretty much reinforces the idea that I will remain tagless. Honestly, who wants to associate with toxicity?

It's funny that you would talk about preconceptions and untruths and then rattle off several about units. The majority of units are very casual, they are not the hierarchical strictly structured Full Metal Jacket reproductions many seem to think they are. They are more often than not, just a group of like minded players who enjoy each others company. They rarely have time commitments or other such nonsense. Joining a unit is the primary way I learned how to properly play the game. Units are a place to discuss builds, tactics, hidden game mechanics etc... And don't take criticism of CW pugs so personally. Did anybody name you specifically? Yes of course their are some solos who happily play with the units they are matched up with. In fact in CW1 when I was a CSJ loyalist the joke was that we didn't have pugs, we just had unit members that didn't have tags yet because the quality of our pugs was so high at the time. That time period however was the exception, not the norm. These days it is very common for solo pugs to bring crap builds, lurms, drop in lights on wave 1 when you need big mechs the most ( because scouting is SO important in CW dontcha know? ) scoff at you for even suggesting that they play with the team, if they don't outright try to sabotage your efforts. Stereotypes exist for a reason; they are generally true.

[MischiefSC]

VorpalAnvil, on 02 April 2016 - 09:57 PM, said:

It's funny that you would talk about preconceptions and untruths and then rattle off several about units. The majority of units are very casual, they are not the hierarchical strictly structured Full Metal Jacket reproductions many seem to think they are. They are more often than not, just a group of like minded players who enjoy each others company. They rarely have time commitments or other such nonsense. Joining a unit is the primary way I learned how to properly play the game. Units are a place to discuss builds, tactics, hidden game mechanics etc... And don't take criticism of CW pugs so personally. Did anybody name you specifically? Yes of course their are some solos who happily play with the units they are matched up with. In fact in CW1 when I was a CSJ loyalist the joke was that we didn't have pugs, we just had unit members that didn't have tags yet because the quality of our pugs was so high at the time. That time period however was the exception, not the norm. These days it is very common for solo pugs to bring crap builds, lurms, drop in lights on wave 1 when you need big mechs the most ( because scouting is SO important in CW dontcha know? ) scoff at you for even suggesting that they play with the team, if they don't outright try to sabotage your efforts. Stereotypes exist for a reason; they are generally true.

Most units can't even get people to agree on what mode to play or to not bring terribad builds - called targets or even generally going the same direction is also a struggle for most units.

Most units are just pugs who like to hang out on TS while they play. That's it. That's MOST units.

That's the telling bit - just hanging out together and nominally putting in a minimum of effort to communicate sometimes is so much more successful than the typical pug players approach that it seems OP by comparison.

[Ordate]

VorpalAnvil, on 02 April 2016 - 09:57 PM, said:

It's funny that you would talk about preconceptions and untruths and then rattle off several about units. The majority of units are very casual, they are not the hierarchical strictly structured Full Metal Jacket reproductions many seem to think they are. They are more often than not, just a group of like minded players who enjoy each others company. They rarely have time commitments or other such nonsense. Joining a unit is the primary way I learned how to properly play the game. Units are a place to discuss builds, tactics, hidden game mechanics etc... And don't take criticism of CW pugs so personally. Did anybody name you specifically? Yes of course their are some solos who happily play with the units they are matched up with. In fact in CW1 when I was a CSJ loyalist the joke was that we didn't have pugs, we just had unit members that didn't have tags yet because the quality of our pugs was so high at the time. That time period however was the exception, not the norm. These days it is very common for solo pugs to bring crap builds, lurms, drop in lights on wave 1 when you need big mechs the most ( because scouting is SO important in CW dontcha know? ) scoff at you for even suggesting that they play with the team, if they don't outright try to sabotage your efforts. Stereotypes exist for a reason; they are generally true.

Really? So where in my post did I talk about how units have these misconceptions? Read carefully. The only thing I even remotely refrenced in regards to a unit was affixed with a statement about the attitudes here.

The only other such statement was in regards to me. Some units do have time commitments. And I work, go to school have a wife and a child. So hanging out and being a team member isn't much of an option.

Edited by Ordate, 02 April 2016 - 11:14 PM.

[Davegt27]

Quote

Stereotypes exist for a reason; they are generally true.

WTF

MWO forums just hit a new hi

[VorpalAnvil]

Davegt27, on 02 April 2016 - 11:51 PM, said:

WTF

MWO forums just hit a new hi

[Chuck Jager]

clownwarlord, on 01 April 2016 - 09:04 PM, said:

It will force units to play against unit members. So units will be more advantageous for them to from a group and drop in CW than to go solo as a unit member. This will force units that have been farming pugs to finally face real competition instead of their usual pug farming. So what will happen? Units will complain because they can't farm anymore and that they have to have actual talent, but that is to not to be said for all units because some of them are legit. I leave it for you to decide who is legit and who isn't.

Now there might be an issue though, and that is player count. The hope is more solo players will play if they do not have to play against units. But with that units might not have enough to get matches to fill the gaps. Outside of that issue I see no problem with this.

Is this a way of saying CW can not exist if we need folks to fight against folks of an equal(ish) level? Maybe it will make the bigger better groups not be able to all switch sides at the same time, because doing so would really hurt them.

[Doman Hugin]

Jman5, on 02 April 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:

The problem with doing this in CW is that even a well contested planet might just have one large premades on the other side. So under your system, if you were in a premade yourself it would keep putting you against them. Sometimes in group queue you'll experience this where you keep matching against some high skilled premade on practice night in their competitive mechs. It gets demoralizing pretty quickly and it's difficult to keep the group together after a little while.

In order to keep low to mid level groups re-queuing they need their fair share of softballs thrown their way. Winnable matches that build up their ego after having it torn down the match before.

This is what concerns me most about the splitting of the queue. I worry that some of these casual units will no longer have the means to win matches and they will simply give up on Community Warfare entirely. Then once those guys leave, the people slightly better then them will lose their softball matchups and leave. And so on until all you have are the top tier teams who can now no longer find matches and so they leave.

2nd paragraph. Competitive matches are too Competitive, give me seal clubbing to stoke my e-peen.

So many of you saying FW was designed for end game unit play. weeeell you got your wish.

And Solo Que gets a new mode, based on CW (and probably without any effect on the map).

[Jon Gotham]

Davegt27, on 02 April 2016 - 11:51 PM, said:

WTF

MWO forums just hit a new hi

I know what you are thinking Dave, but in my personal experience it has been true here, more or less. when I drop solo I see the nasty, horrid end of the playerbase (won't listen , I do what I want brigade-usually in utter silence) around 8 out of every 10 games......
Usually I drop CW in a casual premade made up of random solos and unit guys-MUCH more fun. At least then there is no attitude problems or Johnny Mcrambos to contend with:)

[VorpalAnvil]

Doman Hugin, on 03 April 2016 - 07:46 AM, said:

And Solo Que gets a new mode, based on CW (and probably without any effect on the map).

Once again, you people need to get your facts straight before you get your typing fingers all in a bind. PGI has already stated that in fact, the solo CW Q WILL AFFECT the map. So while my unit is using teamwork to win matches, all of you rambozoes will be undoing our hard work while patting yourselves on the back for averaging 200 Dmg per mech. GG pugs...

[Johnny Z]

VorpalAnvil, on 03 April 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

Once again, you people need to get your facts straight before you get your typing fingers all in a bind. PGI has already stated that in fact, the solo CW Q WILL AFFECT the map. So while my unit is using teamwork to win matches, all of you rambozoes will be undoing our hard work while patting yourselves on the back for averaging 200 Dmg per mech. GG pugs...

It almost looks like your upset that your not the only player/unit in faction play but that's impossible so I will ignore that.

Units get content the solo queue wont be a part of as reward for working together. Let that sink in since it hasn't yet so far. Reread that if need be.

SOME of this unit content is capping planets and planet management with MC rewards. This is on top of being a force for their faction in faction play.

Small units or even solo players with their own unit can also participate in this content but will have to queue up with the large teams that need to share a brain to operate.

The none unit players can participate in the defense of their faction or I guess attacking also. Which is cool. But none unit players wont be a part of the unit content. Like I already said if they want that they can easily make a unit or join a unit. But this is strictly unit content.

This is entirely separate from loyalist voting on attack/defense routes I assume. A player wont have to be in a unit to be loyalist.

This is what I have gathered from all the info I seen so far. A lot like Mercenary contracts and Loyalist contracts is not known entirely.

The icing on the cake will be in phase 4 I assume and that's really great stuff from what I can guess at. Faction economies, planet economy representation, and unit economies and jumpship routes maybe and stuff like that.

Edited by Johnny Z, 03 April 2016 - 12:57 PM.

[MischiefSC]

VorpalAnvil, on 03 April 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

Once again, you people need to get your facts straight before you get your typing fingers all in a bind. PGI has already stated that in fact, the solo CW Q WILL AFFECT the map. So while my unit is using teamwork to win matches, all of you rambozoes will be undoing our hard work while patting yourselves on the back for averaging 200 Dmg per mech. GG pugs...

No, he specifically said it won't. Please point to me where he did. The closest it will get is the perks that 4v4 give active matches.

Planet tags give bonuses. Tagless people can not take a planet.

[Davegt27]

VorpalAnvil, on 03 April 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

Once again, you people need to get your facts straight before you get your typing fingers all in a bind. PGI has already stated that in fact, the solo CW Q WILL AFFECT the map. So while my unit is using teamwork to win matches, all of you rambozoes will be undoing our hard work while patting yourselves on the back for averaging 200 Dmg per mech. GG pugs...

time to suck it up butter cup

[EgoSlayer]

Ordate, on 02 April 2016 - 11:11 PM, said:

Really? So where in my post did I talk about how units have these misconceptions? Read carefully. The only thing I even remotely refrenced in regards to a unit was affixed with a statement about the attitudes here.

The only other such statement was in regards to me. Some units do have time commitments. And I work, go to school have a wife and a child. So hanging out and being a team member isn't much of an option.

Where? right here:

Ordate, on 02 April 2016 - 05:41 PM, said:

<snip>
Truth of the matter is I'm solo for one reason. Time. I can't dedicate time to a unit to be there at specific times, or be a real "team member". So I float solo, do the occasional faction match, and hope it's with people that will call targets etc. Funny, sounds like this unit less pilot wants to work as a team.

Now the rhetoric here pretty much reinforces the idea that I will remain tagless. Honestly, who wants to associate with toxicity?

Others pointed out your misconceptions that units are militant organizations with strict time commitments that are all toxic to other unit/non-unit players. Things you clearly state in your post in reference to units.

[Aresye]

Doman Hugin, on 03 April 2016 - 07:46 AM, said:

2nd paragraph. Competitive matches are too Competitive, give me seal clubbing to stoke my e-peen.

So many of you saying FW was designed for end game unit play. weeeell you got your wish.

Unless your unit is at the absolute top or bottom of the skill tree, you're going to win and lose. How often either happens is dependent on how competent your unit is.

Solo < Small Group < Large Group < Small Comp Group < Large Comp Group

The above order is pretty much how FW behaves right now. Where exactly is the problem?

[MischiefSC]

Aresye, on 03 April 2016 - 01:43 PM, said:

Unless your unit is at the absolute top or bottom of the skill tree, you're going to win and lose. How often either happens is dependent on how competent your unit is.

Solo < Small Group < Large Group < Small Comp Group < Large Comp Group

The above order is pretty much how FW behaves right now. Where exactly is the problem?

The problem?
The problem is the same problem it's always been.

People have a set point of effort they want to invest in stuff to win. That point happens to be exactly the point that they feel should have the best odds of winning and that game mechanics should be built around for the game to be 'good, fun and fair'.

I don't have the zots left over to invest in MW:O to play competitively. I know that. Contented with it. I still work on getting better but the dedication in going 'to that level' I just don't have right now.

I understand and accept that I'm going to lose as a given rule to those who do. I pay attention to what they brought and where they went, what their positioning was and I treat it like a learning experience. I don't come out of it going 'THAT WAS SO UNFAIR!' because it wasn't - it was, in fact, exactly fair. I lost to someone better than me. This idea that people need sheltered from someone better at the game than them and there needs to be 'checks and balances' to prevent people who are successful at the game from beating on unsuccessful people is what keeps those people bad.

I get new players. People who haven't had a chance to even learn the game needing an environment to get up to speed. Hence QP and PSR and the like. I get casual play needing a casual environment. Again, hence QP and PSR.

FW is about factions fighting, not the individuals. It's about 'All we can field vs all you can field'. That's what makes it a harder mode. Hardmode is perhaps the wrong term, but harder.

You take that away and you eliminate the point of it.

[Johnny Z]

MischiefSC, on 03 April 2016 - 02:23 PM, said:

The problem?
The problem is the same problem it's always been.

People have a set point of effort they want to invest in stuff to win. That point happens to be exactly the point that they feel should have the best odds of winning and that game mechanics should be built around for the game to be 'good, fun and fair'.

I don't have the zots left over to invest in MW:O to play competitively. I know that. Contented with it. I still work on getting better but the dedication in going 'to that level' I just don't have right now.

I understand and accept that I'm going to lose as a given rule to those who do. I pay attention to what they brought and where they went, what their positioning was and I treat it like a learning experience. I don't come out of it going 'THAT WAS SO UNFAIR!' because it wasn't - it was, in fact, exactly fair. I lost to someone better than me. This idea that people need sheltered from someone better at the game than them and there needs to be 'checks and balances' to prevent people who are successful at the game from beating on unsuccessful people is what keeps those people bad.

I get new players. People who haven't had a chance to even learn the game needing an environment to get up to speed. Hence QP and PSR and the like. I get casual play needing a casual environment. Again, hence QP and PSR.

FW is about factions fighting, not the individuals. It's about 'All we can field vs all you can field'. That's what makes it a harder mode. Hardmode is perhaps the wrong term, but harder.

You take that away and you eliminate the point of it.

Ok fine.

The part about "All we can field" is correct. That includes larger units, smaller units, solo players, newbies.

Suggesting that this entire feature should be for 14% of players(large units and group queue players) from last numbers is counter to your entire argument.

Edited by Johnny Z, 03 April 2016 - 02:35 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Johnny Z, on 03 April 2016 - 02:30 PM, said:

Ok fine.

The part about "All we can field" is correct. That includes larger units, smaller units, solo players, newbies.

Suggesting that this entire feature should be for 14% of players(large units and group queue players) from last numbers is counter to your entire argument.

I'm all for the split queue. All for it. Have a tagless queue, let people play the modes and maps. I've always been for just putting the maps/modes in QP.

Just needs to not affect the map. You don't get to play casual and derpy and screw the map up for the people putting effort in.

Higher effort is going to equal higher rewards as well. Hence unit queue getting MC rewards for taking worlds, etc.

However having a pug queue version of CW for people to just play and derp in? Sure. Go nuts. All for it.