69 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 April 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

I get the reasoning for the Firestarter II, but none of the variants really impress me. Personally, if we were going with IS Omnis, I'm partial toward the BJ-O.

BJ-O super squish. Hard-points are good, but that engine...

I don't know what sadist thought making almost all IS Medium and Heavy omnis to 64.8 kph was hilarious...

[C E Dwyer]

zagibu, on 02 April 2016 - 04:44 AM, said:

Here's one or two for IS:

• Javelin / Flea
  
• Assassin / Vulcan
  
• Champion / Lancelot
  
• Charger / Cyclops

Got other suggestions?

I think he was talking about clans and wave four more than anything, its a moot point though as there will be no more waves, though I like your selections and I could have easily seen me spending out to buy both of these.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 02 April 2016 - 10:28 AM, said:

BJ-O super squish. Hard-points are good, but that engine...

I don't know what sadist thought making almost all IS Medium and Heavy omnis to 64.8 kph was hilarious...

Dude, I drive Hunchbacks. I'm used to slow 50 tonners. It just requires a different mindset than playing Zippy the Squirrel Mechs.

That said, it would depend a lot on just how much they bulked up the hitboxes compared to the std BJ.

[Metus regem]

cazidin, on 02 April 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

A few questions. 1.Why is the Mad Cat MK II a Battlemech? Wouldn't that be seen as a downgrade in the Clans eyes? 2.Would its maximum engine cap be 400? 3.What would the loadout look like if PGI made it relative to the technology we have available right now? 4.How're you doing?

1) yes, yes they would. If you read the TRO for it, it is veiled that it was meant to be targeted to the IS market, but they wanted it rejected by the Clans first.

2) more than likely, as it has a 360 stock

3) no idea

4) exausted, I have a 3 year old and an 8 month old that has learned how to crawl in the last couple of days. This is ontop of being on call with my job every day.

[Bishop Steiner]

Cathy, on 02 April 2016 - 10:32 AM, said:

I think he was talking about clans and wave four more than anything, its a moot point though as there will be no more waves, though I like your selections and I could have easily seen me spending out to buy both of these.

My issue, aside from value (never have they put more than 2 really decent chassis in the same 4 pack) is that really the only remaining timeline IS Heavy I desire enough to buy is the Crusader. Lancelot has some potential, but not seeing enough to buy into a jumbo pack for it.

And the current slate of Lights, again, minus Unseen nostalgia, is not really any better, IMO. (Even the Assaults are getting thin, which of course, means less to me since I find most Assaults utterly snooze worthy)

[cazidin]

zagibu, on 02 April 2016 - 08:38 AM, said:

That's fine, not everybody has to buy everything. Anyway, here's why I think they would be a good choice:

Javelin is a missile-centric light mech with jumpjets, which is something the IS lacks at the moment.

Flea is a Locust with jumpjets and MASC. It's also adorable. Imagine a pack of fleas with small lasers harassing an Atlas. The big chap will regret not having packed his bug spray.

Both the Assassin and the Vulcan would provide more choice in the IS 40 ton bracket, both bringing a humanoid form with jumpjets to complement the Cicada, the former offering more missiles, and the latter more ballistics.

Similarly, the Champion and the Lancelot would increase variety in the 60 ton bracket, the former bringing a possible very tough mech (two shield arms) with a unique form.

The Lancelot is maybe a bit redundant, since we got the Rifleman now. But it has a much larger engine capacity and variants with jumpjets.

The Charger could be the fast 80 tons energy boat the IS side currently lacks.

The Cyclops doesn't offer much in terms of hardpoints. It's basically a 90 tons Atlas. PGI would have to turn the holographic Tacticon B-2000 battle computer into something worth taking. Nevertheless the mech was very popular in a poll PGI conducted some time ago, so there might be a lot of people who would want one just out of nostalgic reasons.

Would the Javelin even have the tonnage to fill out the missile slots and go fast?

The Flea is a 20 ton mech and is therefore terrible. That's all I have to say about that.

The Assassin and the Vulcan could be interesting but it's unfortunately difficult to put any decent size or decent number of ballistics on a 40 ton chassis.

I want the Champion, the Charger AND the Cyclops too!

Zerberus, on 02 April 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

It´s a batlemech becasue it´s lore design says it is. And no, that is not a downgrade, Omnimechs are fast to refit and repair, but with that comes a large amount of logistics (partly becasue battletech =/= Logic), which is why they are generally only found at the very front line. Now, one could close-mindedly consider that a direct a result of being "inferior", but that assessment ignores too many variables.


Presumably yes. 360XL is standard


Base loadout: could be done, the tech is there.
Enhanced: Hardened armor, ER Larg pulse and ER medium Pulse lasers not currently in game
MKII 2: Streak SRM4s not currently in game
MKII 3: HAG 30 and Light active probe not currently in game
MKII 4: Light Active Probe not cuurrently in game
MKII 5: Improved Large Laser, Improved Medium laser and Improved Jump Jets not currently in game
MKII 6: HARJELIII Not currently in game

Other than the basic version and possibly a lightly modified MKII 4, it would require either breaking a stock build or inventing a new one, just to satisfy some player´s unsatiable desire for instant gratification... and we all know that´s never, ever gone wrong before in MWO... or has it?

1.Well, the IIC were considered second tier by the Clans in-lore. It would seem to me that converting one of their premier mechs, the Timber Wolf, from an omnimech to a battlemech would be seen as a downgrade to them. The IS wouldn't care about that, they'd think "HOLY SHI- A 90 TON TIMBER WOLF?! Well, we're boned!"

2.Thank you!

3.Again, thank you but I meant what would replace the equipment in theory. How would PGI fill out that tonnage?

4.You didn't answer 4. I didn't specifically ask you, but it could still apply, atleast as a matter of etiquette.

Thank you, Metus Regem. That explains why the downgrade.

GL with parenthood.

Edited by cazidin, 02 April 2016 - 10:42 AM.

[Cy Mitchell]

Russ cleared up the timeline issue and stated that there would be no jumping forward in the timeline until they finish putting in the Mechs from the present timeline AND CW Phase 3 has time to run its course. He mentioned six months to a year before that would happen. That takes a few often mentioned Mechs off the table for now.

It is probably best to focus on what could be included in the game as opposed to what will not be included in the game during the rest of 2016 and into 2017.

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 April 2016 - 10:33 AM, said:

Dude, I drive Hunchbacks. I'm used to slow 50 tonners. It just requires a different mindset than playing Zippy the Squirrel Mechs.

That said, it would depend a lot on just how much they bulked up the hitboxes compared to the std BJ.

Even still, your HBK-4G can (and must) sword-and-board, the BJ-O cannot.

It had better be exceptionally deadly with its weapons or really tanky to be worth that XL 200.

[Vxheous]

martian, on 02 April 2016 - 04:54 AM, said:

Personally, I would go with these IS OmniMechs:

• Raptor [25] - tiny and agile, with DHS that Owens and Strider lack
  
• Firestarter II [45] - we have five 50-tonners, but only three 45-tonners
  
• Avatar [70]- I love Avatar since MechWarrior 3; more possible builds than Black Hawk-KU could offer
  
• Sunder [90]- the only Assault OmniMech available, so easy choice here

Do you have any idea how ****** IS Omnimechs are going to be with MWO mech build mechanics?

[Zerberus]

cazidin, on 02 April 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

1.Well, the IIC were considered second tier by the Clans in-lore. It would seem to me that converting one of their premier mechs, the Timber Wolf, from an omnimech to a battlemech would be seen as a downgrade to them. The IS wouldn't care about that, they'd think "HOLY SHI- A 90 TON TIMBER WOLF?! Well, we're boned!"

Yes, but the IIc mechs were primarily refits of star league (read "outdated") mech designs with clan equipment.... It´´s like putting a La Ferrari Engine into a 57 chevy: Yeah, it has a gooseload of power now, buuit it´s still gonna corner like surat dung... There were clans that bought MKIIs, notably Ice Hellion and Wolf in Exile, bith teh general rejection by CJF and CW wasn´t as much becasue it was inferrior because of a it being a battlemech, but more because it was trying to sill a role that other mechs arguably fulfilled jsut as well or better. It was basically a waste of development time in their eyes, not so much a "bad" mech. just unnecessary.

Quote

3.Again, thank you but I meant what would replace the equipment in theory. How would PGI fill out that tonnage?

Unfortunately, that s the issue.... many of those things simply can´t be realistically replaced, like the twin HyperAssaultGauss 30 rifles that weigh so much they have to remove all the other weapons and even a few JJs to get it to work....similar holds true for ER pulse lasers with their different weight and crit counts...

They (PGI) basically either would have to create those weapons, thereby breaking the tech timeline, or completely reengineer the builds of the mechs that don´t have Timeline apppropriate equipment....ASSUMING they can even be similarly built with current tech with respects to crit and weight values...

OR they can simply wait 6-9 months until CW PH3 is over and all the timeline accurate mechs are in teh game, and just jump forward 5-10 years, where all of these things and many more suddenly have to be implemented anyway, making any build breaking a non issue

Quote

4.You didn't answer 4. I didn't specifically ask you, but it could still apply, atleast as a matter of etiquette.

I figutred it wasn´t aimed at me, but for the record I´m doing just fine for teh most part, thanks for asking *raises beer stein*

[C E Dwyer]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 April 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

My issue, aside from value (never have they put more than 2 really decent chassis in the same 4 pack) is that really the only remaining timeline IS Heavy I desire enough to buy is the Crusader. Lancelot has some potential, but not seeing enough to buy into a jumbo pack for it.

And the current slate of Lights, again, minus Unseen nostalgia, is not really any better, IMO. (Even the Assaults are getting thin, which of course, means less to me since I find most Assaults utterly snooze worthy)

The barrel is getting empty, and I think that's really more the reason P.G.I are abandoning the 4 packs, not enough there to make enough people go for them

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 02 April 2016 - 10:41 AM, said:

Even still, your HBK-4G can (and must) sword-and-board, the BJ-O cannot.

It had better be exceptionally deadly with its weapons or really tanky to be worth that XL 200.

and I'd rather risk it with that than more Laser Vomit same ol same ol with the Firestarter O or BlackHawk KU.

Cathy, on 02 April 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

The barrel is getting empty, and I think that's really more the reason P.G.I are abandoning the 4 packs, not enough there to make enough people go for them

that and that the last few most likely didn't sell well. This is PGI you know they would have milked them to the bitter end, and then tried one more 4 pack anyhow, if the last couple had sold well.

[cazidin]

Zerberus, on 02 April 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Yes, but the IIc mechs were primarily refits of star league (read "outdated") mech designs with clan equipment.... It´´s like putting a La Ferrari Engine into a 57 chevy: Yeah, it has a gooseload of power now, buuit it´s still gonna corner like surat dung... There were clans that bought MKIIs, notably Ice Hellion and Wolf in Exile, bith teh general rejection by CJF and CW wasn´t as much becasue it was inferrior because of a it being a battlemech, but more because it was trying to sill a role that other mechs arguably fulfilled jsut as well or better. It was basically a waste of development time in their eyes, not so much a "bad" mech. just unnecessary.


Unfortunately, that s the issue.... many of those things simply can´t be realistically replaced, like the twin HyperAssaultGauss 30 rifles that weigh so much they have to remove all the other weapons and even a few JJs to get it to work....similar holds true for ER pulse lasers with their different weight and crit counts...

They (PGI) basically either would have to create those weapons, thereby breaking the tech timeline, or completely reengineer the builds of the mechs that don´t have Timeline apppropriate equipment....ASSUMING they can even be similarly built with current tech with respects to crit and weight values...

OR they can simply wait 6-9 months until CW PH3 is over and all the timeline accurate mechs are in teh game, and just jump forward 5-10 years, where all of these things and many more suddenly have to be implemented anyway, making any build breaking a non issue

I figutred it wasn´t aimed at me, but for the record I´m doing just fine for teh most part, thanks for asking *raises beer stein*

One could change out the SSRMs for SRMs or add additional ammo or heatsinks, in theory. Maybe Narc can replace the Healing one?

Good to hear (read?) that you're fine. Thanks again for answering my questions about the Mad Cat MK II.

[Alex Morgaine]

zagibu, on 02 April 2016 - 04:44 AM, said:

Here's one or two for IS:

• Javelin / Flea
  
• Assassin / Vulcan
  
• Champion / Lancelot
  
• Charger / Cyclops

Got other suggestions?

Yes....

[Cy Mitchell]

Cathy, on 02 April 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

The barrel is getting empty, and I think that's really more the reason P.G.I are abandoning the 4 packs, not enough there to make enough people go for them

I am not even so sure that the barrel is that empty. I just think that PGI has come to the realization that a lot of people are not willing to drop the extra money to get certain levels of the 4 pack when it includes Mechs that they really do not want. I, personally, do not value the bonuses and potential extra Mechbays enough to buy a pack that has 3-6 Mechs that I have no desire to play. I am more likely to spend real $$ for a $20 pack that contains the Mech that I really want plus some nice early adopter bonuses. I might even splurge for the special variant. Maybe the economics of making such a decision do not make a lot of sense to some but it is mush easier for me to justify parting with $20 at a time for a game than it is $90-120.

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 April 2016 - 11:01 AM, said:

and I'd rather risk it with that than more Laser Vomit same ol same ol with the Firestarter O or BlackHawk KU.

Pffff, I was gonna PPC the BHKU-O. It'll be way better at it than the NVA-A purely due to a massive heat generation advantage.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 02 April 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

Pffff, I was gonna PPC the BHKU-O. It'll be way better at it than the NVA-A purely due to a massive heat generation advantage.

So do what I can already do in my BJ3 or SHD-2K

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 02 April 2016 - 11:11 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 April 2016 - 11:10 AM, said:

So do what I can already do in my BJ3 or SHD-2K

There is nothing you can do with a BJ-O you can't already do on a Jager or Rifleman or even the existing Blackjacks.

Just as I was telling Fup, "because different" is not strong argument because we already have the 'Mechs to do everything. The only arguments one can make are "because cool" or "because more capable."

BJ-O fails the latter fantastically, so the former is what it has to be. Which is fine, just don't try to bill the 'Mech as somehow being better than it really is. I will surely buy the BJ-O if and when it comes to the game, and I'm sure I'll make it work just fine, but it won't be properly "good."

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 02 April 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

There is nothing you can do with a BJ-O you can't already do on a Jager or Rifleman or even the existing Blackjacks.

Just as I was telling Fup, "because different" is not strong argument because we already have the 'Mechs to do everything. The only arguments one can make are "because cool" or "because more capable."

BJ-O fails the latter fantastically, so the former is what it has to be. Which is fine, just don't try to bill the 'Mech as somehow being better than it really is. I will surely buy the BJ-O if and when it comes to the game, and I'm sure I'll make it work just fine, but it won't be properly "good."

Never saw me billing it as the coming Messiah, care to point out where I did. I said my preference was for it over the other Medium Omni options, and that the speed was not in itself that big a deal, to me.

[Zerberus]

cazidin, on 02 April 2016 - 11:03 AM, said:

One could change out the SSRMs for SRMs or add additional ammo or heatsinks, in theory. Maybe Narc can replace the Healing one?

Good to hear (read?) that you're fine. Thanks again for answering my questions about the Mad Cat MK II.

Oh, ehm, huge brauinfart on my part, streak SRM-4s of course exist, somehow I read Streak LRMs for reason I cannot currently explain..... so that build would actually work jsut fine I think.... my bad

So the base, the MKII 2 and the MKII 4(with a small change to active probe, possibly stripping half a ton of leg armor or similar) could at least theoretically be included today...

Edited by Zerberus, 02 April 2016 - 11:20 AM.