174 replies to this topic

[-Ramrod-]

Until the cheating is properly dealt with you can count me out.

[Siriothrax]

Matt Newman, on 05 April 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

These things can and will be adjusted but I will gleefully skip past feedback that comes with a side serving vitriol.

Poll on game modes/restrictions: https://www.reddit.c...ticisms/d1qxhev

Full thread with other feedback: https://www.reddit.c...hip_criticisms/

EDIT: Since I was replying to the post asking for any and all constructive feedback and didn't see the one that specified it had to come from Approved Avenues ™.

The most popular options are: Conquest. Each drop should have its own Class/Tonnage restriction rather than a single option for the entire series. No chassis/weapon restrictions beyond class tonnage.

Edited by Siriothrax, 05 April 2016 - 10:51 AM.

[Skaav]

Lightfoot, on 05 April 2016 - 09:10 AM, said:

Only because it's not an option. But okay, moving on to something else.

No, because its borderline ******** to play competitive MWO with a joystick, thats why

[TercieI]

Matt Newman, on 05 April 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

Honestly, I don't have an awesome reason. Some Details have been changed to TBA = To Be Announced


Side note: The Official MWO Forums is where feedback will be culled from. Not Twitter, Not Reddit.
Not all rules are up for debate either so focus on the TBA details like maps and tonnage for example.

I appreciate your answering.

[Skaav]

I dont understand why PGI keeps doing tuff like this, getting this right would be so easy, just copy ANY popular format to a certain degree and profit.

But no, we have to invent our own tournament, with no rules besides stupid stuff like hardware and !!!!RESOLUTION!!!! restrictions.

Guess im gonna have to buy a new Monitor to keep playing comp MWO now...

[Quicksilver Aberration]

I'll raise some concern as others have on reddit about the 12 man roster limit. This tournament will go on for 6 months, and real life happens considering none of us play this game professionally. I really think the roster limit should be re-thought and raised to around 16-18, especially if they aren't getting expenses paid travel to the finals in the first place (should their team make it that far).

[Glory in the Highest]

Araara, on 05 April 2016 - 10:00 AM, said:

To be fair Matt, much appreciation for your work but I think you should reconsider looking at reddit or other forums. Competitive players and organizers have long since branched out to outreach hpg reddit and mwo reddit for feedback as they usually contain the bigger majority of long time competitive players.

The mwo forums are, not trying to be insensitive here, mostly populated by players with less play experience. The ones with more play experience also frequent reddit and league forums too. (edit : talking general playing experience here, not just competitive experience)

Now, I'm not saying you should always take feedback from reddit instead of here but you have to realize that if you want tested and proven feedback for the competitive side of mwo, you'll want to actually look where those competitive players and spectators are.

Case in point, how many links on the official mwo forums are there about competitive streams, shoutcasts of competitive games and analysis of said matches? Not to mention all the discussions about said games and teams.

Compare it to both reddit pages (mwo reddit and outreach hpg reddit) and you'll see they're miles apart.

Seconded.

And why don't we post here? Because we get shouted down on a regular basis by those non-comp players who just want the comp players to get out of their stompybotsgame. And because PGI tends to listen to the non-comp players' demands over the comp scene's reasonable suggestions.

It's really irritating for the comp scene to have spent years trying to politely make suggestions which are continually ignored, and then be told not to have any vitriol about it now that the tournament we dreamed about for years has appeared and is so tonedeaf and against professional tournament standards that it's evident precious little research was done. Not to mention the wasted hours spent talking with community comp leaders. I can only imagine how they feel right now, having tried their best to make sure this would be good.

So sure ... if you want us to post here, we will. Expect criticism, though. Don't moderate us to death for it, don't shove our threads and ideas into sub-forums, or shout us down, or say you won't listen to something presented with "vitriol". We went to reddit and left MWO Forums an echo chamber for a reason.

That aside. Yes, I agree with Quicksilver that a roster of 12 is unreasonable. 8v8 is fairly unprecedented for a gaming tourney, and teams already have some trouble keeping a consistent roster of 12. There are no professionals playing this game for money right now; life happens, and many teams will be tripped up by a roster lock that small. Just pay for 8 core's tickets and if the subs want to show up for the on-site tourneys, let them pay their own way. Up it to 16, or even unlimited as long as it locks at a certain time.

Edited by Glory, 05 April 2016 - 10:48 AM.

[Rick Windwalker]

100k+ money...

What could all have been improved in this game that still feels half ready for that amount...

Rick out

[Siriothrax]

Matt Newman, on 05 April 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

Side note: The Official MWO Forums is where feedback will be culled from. Not Twitter, Not Reddit.

Not reaching out and engaging with your community makes you seem aloof and uncaring.

Shutting down feedback doesn't help anyone.

Edited by Siriothrax, 05 April 2016 - 10:49 AM.

[Deathlike]

Siriothrax, on 05 April 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

You really need to stop forcing the community to come at your beck and call, and instead reach out and engage with them. It makes you seem aloof and uncaring.

Shutting down feedback doesn't help anyone.

I would argue that the what Matt is saying is the reverse of what happens on these here forums.

I don't know how one would suddenly change their MO for just this particular occasion.

[Siriothrax]

Also, to add on, I fricking hate forums as a means of discussion. It's nearly impossible to follow multiple chains of conversation and they are super susceptible to derails, so they scale really, really poorly on popular topics.

Edited by Siriothrax, 05 April 2016 - 10:55 AM.

[Lucky Noob]

Araara, on 05 April 2016 - 10:00 AM, said:

i dont know exact, but isnt PGI banned from reddit ?

[Siriothrax]

Lucky Noob, on 05 April 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

i dont know exact, but isnt PGI banned from reddit ?

They were shadowbanned, which would normally autoremove their posts, but they've been manually approved to post on /r/OutreachHPG

EDIT: Also, several PGI employees that weren't around during the Transverse subreddit debacle aren't banned at all, and quasi-actively participate.

Edited by Siriothrax, 05 April 2016 - 11:04 AM.

[Exoth3rmic]

Given it's April, i'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt as to the status of the game come December in terms of maps / balance etc and PGI do need to give themselves wriggle room to account for this.

That said, clearly it's weapons grade ballonium to expect people to commit to a tournament where they have to use 3rd party peripheral equipment etc and force players to make commitments in May for a finals 7 months later.

The 100k base prize pool is almost irrelevant to someone travelling out to play in the finals given any tangible reward would barely cover the flight and accomodation cost and certainly won't compensate for the time spent in preparation and gameplay over those 7 months.

We play and compete because of our love of the game and the dedication to those we play with, often despite of PGI's influence on the game mechanics; this is the exact time when I would expect PGI to give the competitive community what it wants and absorb all of the feedback from all sources to provide a truly worthy tournament for Mechwarrior.

It will greatly impact the validity of any future attempts if this isn't taken on board now.

[KrocodockleTheBooBoxLoader-GetIn]

Bush league purists with their household rules are seriously annoying the crap out of me. PGI announcing anything contrary to 100% what they are used to and 'oh no it's no-feedback Armageddon!!'. Said 'comp' play conforms to PGI not vice versa. If you don't like it quit. With money rewards being introduced better pilots are coming anyways.

Announced today. Changes are coming. It's not the end of the world.

[Glory in the Highest]

Krocodockle, on 05 April 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:

If you don't like it quit.

If you do like it, why have I never seen your name in a league? That line of reasoning goes both ways.

Better pilots coming to this game? For the slim prospect of $5k/person after 6 months? Sorry, my friend. We, the current comp scene, are it. We're what you've got.

[ChapDude]

Matt Newman, on 05 April 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

Hey everyone! we are listening to constructive feedback and we are willing to adjust the gameplay rules!
I have personally spent hours talking with other league organizers to gather feedback on our gameplay rules, structure, maps and tonnage rules.
These things can and will be adjusted but I will gleefully skip past feedback that comes with a side serving vitriol.
I just don't need that kind of energy in my life right now (winky face)

Namaste.

the "gameplay rules, structure, maps and tonnage rules." are not the only thing that need to be looked over.

input hardware: as with every other video game championship players should be allowed their own keyboard, mouse pad and mouse, these are core elements of a players muscle memory it takes considerable time to get the different dpi's down, adjust to weight and buttons ect, worries about macros can be addressed by refs prior to matches where every key of the mouse or keyboard can be pressed under their scrutiny there are plenty of programs that will display keys that are inputted. Additionally serious thought should be put on how the gamers will be cut off from the sound of the commentators regular headsets do not block out the sound of out side elements such as your enemy teams movements being blasted over speakers to the rest of the room. players should be provided noise cancelling headsets/earmuffs with the option to provide their own earbuds to wear underneath OR be placed in a sound proof room during matches.

Roster: we're talking about a 6 month tourney... real life happens fairly reliably over such a long period of time, i would strongly encourage upping the maximum sub players to 6 if not 8 to minimize problems and drop outs during qualifiers.

Match preparation: a grace time of just two minutes is incredibly short considering the connecting/saving issues the game is plagued with, it can easily take me most of that time if not longer to save a load out or connect to the game if i have to restart the client if one has a not entirely infrequent issue were a player cant join a lobby (possible to get a couple ways).

Okay now for the largest issue: match structure!!!! There is for all intents and purposes none and there is no statements explaining why there is none, that might sound mean but im trying to be nice here all you have atm is what looks like default private lobby settings, i can understand wanting to keep thing simple, open, so they can be decided closer to qualifiers but then there need to be a CLEAR statement saying so. Whats currently there looks like it isn't understood what drop restrictions and rules are need to be declared before a match can be done.

That said here are some notes on things that need to be addressed, the gamemode should NOT be skirmish, ideally conquest the current primary game mode of comp play as it encourages engagement and there are essentially no ties, if you have forgotten what happened in your last tournament skirmish encourages camping, a team will just sit in an advantageous position that the enemy cant reach and sit the game out to a tie if their opponents don't feel like suiciding.

Next the drops should also be best of 3, ideally with different tonnages for each drop and a 5+ min grace time between drops to change mechs (which should be ready before hand thx to tournament build $). Doing best of ones is somewhat insulting to the members of those teams willing to commit their time to practice and compete how would you feel if you practiced for something for 3 months became competitive at that thing and got instantly knocked out without feeling like you really got a chance to show your stuff, bo3 helps mitigate those feelings while keeping the length of qualifying down. finials should be bo5.

If you really have been talking to members of the competitive community you should have an assortment of suggestions for tonnages/chassis restrictions and other possible restrictions so im not going to comment on that for now.

as a final statement i just want to say i know you guys aren't perfect but it really hurts when be it as a team or as individuals make the same mistakes time and time again if you had just sent this out a month, a week a day before hand to representatives of comp teams, league creators or just players of whom you should know fairly well by now as most of them have been around all along, this could of been a fairly drama-less release instead once again rather than being proactive your having to be reactive cause of what looks like laziness, ignorance or even worse arrogance! Talk to us before hand Listen to us, let us help you help make our favorite game shine in an area we have been polishing since closed beta this could be so good don't let it become the same mediocrity that the first tournament was.

Edits are for spelling and grammar so far (cause i suck) if i change anything else i mention it here

Edited by ChapDude, 05 April 2016 - 11:27 AM.

[Siriothrax]

ChapDude, on 05 April 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

Next the drops should also be best of 3, ideally with different tonnages for each drop and a 5+ min grace time between drops to change mechs (which should be ready before hand thx to tournament build $). Doing best of ones is somewhat insulting to the members of those teams willing to commit their time to practice and compete how would you feel if you practiced for something for 3 months became competitive at that thing and got instantly knocked out without feeling like you really got a chance to show your stuff, bo3 helps mitigate those feelings while keeping the length of qualifying down. finials should be bo5.

Bo5 regular, Bo7 finals tbh.

Edited by Siriothrax, 05 April 2016 - 11:18 AM.

[KrocodockleTheBooBoxLoader-GetIn]

Glory, on 05 April 2016 - 11:14 AM, said:

If you do like it, why have I never seen your name in a league? That line of reasoning goes both ways.

Better pilots coming to this game? For the slim prospect of $5k/person after 6 months? Sorry, my friend. We, the current comp scene, are it. We're what you've got.

A philosophical debate about circular reasoning aside, your point is that prize money for mwo will never grow and that you are the final product of the competitive scene and no new players will ever ever come in that are better than current league players?

[Glory in the Highest]

ChapDude, on 05 April 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

as a final statement i just want to say i know you guys aren't perfect but it really hurts when be it as a team or as individuals make the same mistakes time and time again if you had just sent this out a month, a week a day before hand to representatives of comp teams, league creators or just players of whom you should know fairly well by now as most of them have been around all along, this could of been a fairly drama-less release instead once again rather than being proactive your having to be reactive cause of what looks like laziness, ignorance or even worse arrogance! Talk to us before hand Listen to us, let us help you help make our favorite game shine in an area we have been polishing since closed beta this could be so good don't let it become the same mediocrity that the first tournament was.

This so much. <3 We are here, playing, and paying, because we want to play your game. We want to see the franchise we love make it big, finally.

Krocodockle, on 05 April 2016 - 11:24 AM, said:

A philosophical debate about circular reasoning aside, your point is that prize money for mwo will never grow and that you are the final product of the competitive scene and no new players will ever ever come in that are better than current league players?

That could happen. Some people thought it would with Steam. I still think the current top players will stay on top until they quit because the learning curve for this game is ... well ... what it is.

Edited by Glory, 05 April 2016 - 11:27 AM.