104 replies to this topic

[maxdest]

I think from a spectator and commentary perspective maximum diversity is best.



A straight 2/2/2/2 or tonnage would result in many teams bringing similar loadouts.


Therefore:

• Minimum of 1 mech per class
  
• No duplicate chassis
  
• No hero
  
• Max 465 tons

Lots of room for diversity and ensures each class is represented.

Also I think may be cool to lock and publish the chassis the day before the match (at least for the later stages), as this would aid buildup and let teams build a pre match strategy just like real physical sports. Maybe 2 subs on match day.

Edited by maxdest, 06 April 2016 - 01:57 PM.

[RighteousFury]

Current season MRBC rules are actualy very good creating variations of tactics and decks.

Unless you do only 1 drop/map matches different rules for different maps are great to increase diversity and playstyles and actualy require more versatility given the fact that you can only bring 4 backup players.


I would highly recommend to avoid super complexe/restricive limits on what you can actualy put into a mech.

While the ban of clan streaks on a very light dropdeck fight (as MRBC for exsample does it on the 4 light 4 medium decks) does make sense imo, enforcing stock/trial/lore or whatever "bad" or "not meta" loadouts per se would just result in a tourney client that has absolutely nothing to do with the game we currently play (and have played for quite some time now). Thus it wouldnt exactly be a MWO championship.


EDIT:

I would also restrain from hardcoded enforces limits on tonnage/mechs/weapons/consumeables. MRBC RHOD etc have shown that building a strong dropdeck is actualy a skill itself.

If a rule says, no strikes on this round/map then a good team should be able to make that happen (or not happen so to say). If you bring an illegal loadout/deck etc then thats actualy lack of organisation/discipline.

Edited by RighteousFury, 06 April 2016 - 02:16 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

if I had to choose, minimum 380 maximum 480.

my preferance however would be for each "match" to consist of 3-5 games, with each game on a diferant map and with a diferant weight limit,
for example, qualifying match;
game 1 Forest Colony classic, tonage range 450-600 tons.
game 2 Alpine Peaks, tonage range 250-380 tons.
game 3 Terra Therma, tonage range 350-500 tons.
preferably with the setup not announced until a week before the match

[TheMagician]

Minimum of 1/1/1/1 (L/M/H/A) total of 480 tons

[Vxheous]

Just do something similar to the MRBC dropdeck rules per match.

[jep00]

I think a fixed deck of like types competing against each other true to the lore brings out the best possible competition . Champions or heroes and stock load outs. 8 King Crabs X 8 Dire Wolves.

[kesmai]

800t or bust.

[Void Angel]

I'd suggest a range of ~300-515. There simply isn't a reasonable tonnage range that will preclude some kind of chassis-pure drop deck - all Ebon Jaguars, all Blackjacks, 2 lights and 6 Marauders, etc - so don't even try. I think that drop tonnages in this range will allow players to field a varied team while avoiding extremely heavy and discouraging extremely light decks.

[Cato Zilks]

(PGI) Primus, I cannot vote for your options, as they are way too restrictive.

We need multiple matches of multiple types that have different weight classes. I agree that their should be no duplicates

• Match one, conquest with a 400-430 ton cap.
  
• Match two, domination with a 550-580 ton cap.
  
• Match three, skirmish with a 445-475 ton cap.

[AngelusDD]

well, after seeing a lot of 2/2/2/2 suggestions with quite narrow tonnage ranges, i am still very much against it.

1. keep it simple. let the team decide what it wanna play. the fewer regulations the better.
i like mrbc rules, but it is in the end pretty complex with different dropdecks on different rounds with different maps.
although the average mwo-player is a very smart and dedicated guy, such complex rules might not be very good to understand from a promotional perspective in marketing the game outside its current player base.

2. as much as i can see where the x/x/x/x thinking is coming from, this is based on the assumption that an unregulated deck will consist of a deck of (mostly the same) mechs, which that team thinks is currently the most powerful mech (e.g. "all oxide" or "all timberwolf deck" or maybe "4 oxide / 4 timbers" or whatever).
but so far i have seen no deck that would be unbeatable. there are very creative commanders out there who will outsmart those decks, even though is may take an very unusual deck. since skill...

A very regulated deck with no chassis doubling, class restrictions and tonnage restrictions will (against its own goal to promote diversity):
A. narrow down the overall diversity, since i can not choose from all mechs
B. prevent unusual, unexpected dropdecks (i.e. high risk - high action - fun to watch)
C. likely bring in the same (supposedly optimal) x/x/x/x deck in every round, just now within the limitations
D. might appear to make the chances more even, although not more fair. this limitation is only supposed to hamper the elite teams in their way smash less skilled teams. which in the end will fail, you know, since skill....
(btw i am not in an elite team)


as a conclusion (to having a x/x/x/x dropdeck with narrow tonnage restrictions)
pro:
from a sports/competition perspective, it may even the chances a tiny little bit
(but then you should have the same fixed preset deck for all the teams anyway)
con:
any given restriction will not promote diversity, but just narrow choices.
it increases the chance that a specific dropdeck will appear more often or maybe all the time
it will not change the skill of the players

ergo:
i will stick with my original suggestion (which is restricted enough): 300-520t with no other restrictions

Edited by AngelusDD, 06 April 2016 - 11:14 PM.

[Unendingmenace]

I've also been thinking what are everyone's thoughts on a stock variant only division? I think that would be awesome and force players to pick a chassis/variant around their favoured playstyle.

[TheCharlatan]

I'll just throw a few ideas out there to keep things intresting:

• No duplicate mechs in a team.
  
• If two teams fight sequential matches, the rule applies to all the matches (i.e.: if someone used a Timber Wolf in one match, the Timber wolf is not usable anymore in subsequent matches).

The reason for this is that we really don't want teams made up of 4 of each of the most meta mech available for the tonnage.

Edited by TheCharlatan, 07 April 2016 - 12:47 AM.

[WillyPete]

Why are we looking at just one set of tonnage rules?

Why not make each level of the finals a best of 5, and mix up those 5 matches to test all perspectives of player skill?

Example.

• 2 Games with unlimited tonnage and class rules. Possibly faction specific, IS one game, Clan the next.
  
• 1 game of single class mech only, No duplicate chassis. Or trial mechs with duplicate chassis allowed. (Perfect to intro new champ trial mechs)
  
• One game 2/2/2/2 with 480 tons.
  
• One game with no duplicate chassis no class restriction, 550 tons.

[Appogee]

2/2/2/2 and no duplicate chassis.

Ignore tonnage, as sensible Mechwarriors do.

[Orteus Zenzala]

hey, 465 tons look like pretty cool !

This tonnage give the opportunity ton take different type of conposition like this :

In 2/2/2/2 type :

100-Atlas

80-Victor

75-Marauder

60-Quickdraw

55-Centurion

40-Cicada

35-Raven

20-locust

In 3/3/0/2

100-Atlas

100-Kingcrab

55-Griffin

55-Kintaro

50-Hunckback

35-Raven

35-Jenner

35-Panther

In 2/2/4/0

75-Black Knight

75-Marauder

75-Orion

65-Jaegermech

55-Kintaro

50-Hunckback

35-Raven

35-Jenner

So i would say the rules is:

​--------------------------

- Tonnage 460-470

- No duplicate

--------------------------

It look like battletech battalion ! No much assault, Medium and heavy are the center off team forces, and ligth can make the game balance !


P.S Sorry for my bad english ^^

Edited by Orteus Zenzala, 07 April 2016 - 03:09 AM.

[James Wirth]

WyldWilk, on 05 April 2016 - 06:20 PM, said:

530 tone would be fair.
Every team can have 2 of each weight class up to maximum weight.
example, 2X 100t, 2X 75t, 2X55t, and 2X 35t, if desired or change it around within the limit.

^^THIS^^ is a fine idea, and the most fair I think. And I would add to that 'no duplicate chassis" to encourage variety.

Edited by James Wirth, 07 April 2016 - 03:08 AM.

[Grrzoot]

i think, for the round robin- you should fix all decks and chassis. the most partisan way.

but if not 2/2/2/2 or some other fixed format with no duplicates or one duplicate chassis will be much easier to monitor/control than just a tonnage restriction.

[Hexidecimator]

Even in the case of a round robin format you should have a minimum of (Best of 3) per match. Anyone who has competed in this game knows that you can have a bad drop and it doesnt really reflect the talent of one team over another. Because I dont see any rules about disconnects/reconnects, lobby rules/restrictions, consumables/modules, or policy on draws and ties (Since skirmish seems to be the game mode?!) It is difficult to truly say what would work and what would not, but if I had to generically propose something it would be:

Set 1: 2/2/2/2
Set 2: 485 tons (must be within 5 tons, this means a 480 deck could battle a 485 but not a 475 deck)
- This is another thing that people who have not played competitive MWO dont understand, deck building is as much as choosing mechs as it is trying to determine what the other team will bring, having unlimited 0-800 ton ranges will create bad matches in my opinion.
Set 3: (if required) 1/2/3/2
- Based on the averages from group/solo queue these are the weight choices of the community and should provide the most interest or competition


You could easily argue with this format being that so many parameters are not outlined, but again in a generic format I believe this would provide a fair determination of who is the better team and allow for the viewers/spectators to enjoy the match.

[R2D2FTW]

Try to allow some room for players that do not have a stable of 100 mechs.

400 Ton
2/2/2/2
480 Ton

Best of 3 matches. No other restrictions.

[Repasy Cooper]

I think the tonnage restrictions for the tournament should be 480 tons total, with at leas one but no more than three mechs of each chassis class (ie. 2/2/2/2 or 3/1/1/3 or 1/2/3/2 etc.). Best of 3 matches. No duplicate mech variants & no more than one duplicate of a mech chassis (ie. you cannot take two Raven-3L, you can take a Raven 3L & a Raven 2X, and you cannot take a Raven 3L, 2X, & 4X).

Mech choices should be finalized before the start of the competition, forcing the player to use the same mech variant throughout the tourney. However, they would be allowed to modify loadouts in between matches, allowing for some modification of the group's strategy.