104 replies to this topic

[Primus of ComStar]

UPDATE/FINAL RESULT:

Thank you for the feedback and discussion, MechWarriors.

We have decided to go with a pure 2/2/2/2 weight class structure, rather than limiting by standard tonnage values. This means that Teams will purely be restricted to:

• 2 Light 'Mechs
  
• 2 Medium 'Mechs
  
• 2 Heavy 'Mechs
  
• 2 Assault 'Mechs

There will be no additional restrictions for 'Mech selection.


The original post can be found below:

Spoiler

Only one set of tonnage rules will be used throughout the entire round robin process. Due to an unfortunate typo in the initial Tournament Rules release, we want to clarify that the maximum tonnage a team of only 8 ‘Mechs can field is indeed 800 tons, not 1200. Likewise a team cannot take to the field with a tonnage value of 0.
That being said, with a max tonnage value of 800 a team of 8 would be able to drop entirely with Atlas Assault ‘Mechs. We know this isn’t the kind of match that would be entertaining and fun to watch in a competitive Tournament, so we want to hear your thoughts on what would make for an ideal minimum/maximum tonnage range, and why.

For example, a range of 20-60 tons per player would mean a team has a range of 160-480 tons to play with overall. Taking an Atlas into a match with that tonnage structure would have a drastic influence on which ‘Mechs the other teammates could bring to stay within the tonnage limit.

We are interested in hearing your feedback regarding tonnage limits, along with any suggestions you may have as to which tonnage values you’d like to see used in this Tournament.

[Cranky Puppy]

Yay Tournament.

I want to bring some mechs to this event...but I don't own them yet.

Sooooooo....lets have a Mech Bay sale at 50% off and Module Sale at 50% off.

Change of Plans....
ALL PLAYERS should use only TRIAL LIGHT MECHS.
That would be an amazing Tournament not focusing on solely high powered "Meta Mech" Alpha Strikes but more so great piloting skills.
Also only TRIAL MECHS would put people on equal footing.

[Anarcho]

I would like to see a 2/2/2/2 format, so we have 2 of each category of chassis in the field, and not a bunch of heavies only...

[avenger cannon]

400 tons

3 Atlas 5 Locust vs. 8 Crabs

Edited by avenger cannon, 06 April 2016 - 10:00 AM.

[Anarcho]

Cranky Puppy, on 05 April 2016 - 06:11 PM, said:

Yay Tournament.

I want to bring some mechs to this event...but I don't own them yet.

Sooooooo....lets have a Mech Bay sale at 50% off and Module Sale at 50% off.

Change of Plans....
ALL PLAYERS should use only TRIAL LIGHT MECHS.
That would be an amazing Tournament not focusing on solely high powered "Meta Mech" Alpha Strikes but more so great piloting skills.
Also only TRIAL MECHS would put people on equal footing.

Aparently there will be "clear" accounts for this tournament, like the PTS, with lots of cbills, so people can build whatever they want.

[WyldWilk]

530 tone would be fair.
Every team can have 2 of each weight class up to maximum weight.
example, 2X 100t, 2X 75t, 2X55t, and 2X 35t, if desired or change it around within the limit.

[Zolaz]

400 tons

[Navid A1]

Cranky Puppy, on 05 April 2016 - 06:11 PM, said:

Yay Tournament.

I want to bring some mechs to this event...but I don't own them yet.

Sooooooo....lets have a Mech Bay sale at 50% off and Module Sale at 50% off.

Change of Plans....
ALL PLAYERS should use only TRIAL LIGHT MECHS.
That would be an amazing Tournament not focusing on solely high powered "Meta Mech" Alpha Strikes but more so great piloting skills.
Also only TRIAL MECHS would put people on equal footing.

You will log on on a separate client with tons upon tons of MC and cbills and XP pre-loaded

[Tamerlin]

ignore tonnage. 2/2/2/2, with no duplicate chasis. Any tie-breaker goes to the team with the lighter total tonnage.

Edited by Tamerlin, 05 April 2016 - 06:40 PM.

[jadef1]

2 of each class sounds good

[White Bear 84]

Cranky Puppy, on 05 April 2016 - 06:11 PM, said:

ALL PLAYERS should use only TRIAL LIGHT MECHS.

Oh yeah, bring on the real skill
As for tonnage, this is more important than map choice.

PGI wants a static map for fairness, but then how is it fair if you have a set tonnage, but teams can skew the gameplay toward a deck that benefits their skills to give them an edge?

This would suggest having a mech limit would be more in line, such as how the MRBC format runs (2/2/2/2 for example) AND a maximum number of duplicate chassis (or none allowed) in the round, so at least there is some variation.

If had to pick a tonnage, think 480 would be the max...

Edited by White Bear 84, 05 April 2016 - 07:00 PM.

[Fiona Marshe]

430-530 tons range for 8 players (2 lances - firelance + heavy lance).

330-430 tons would be better, but you could hear the screaming from the Periphery.

Traditional lances:
Scout 130t
Medium 200t
Fire 230t
Heavy 300t

Edited by Fiona Marshe, 05 April 2016 - 07:53 PM.

[Dee Eight]

Since only the assault category has an odd # of mech size tonnages to pull a median amount from (90 tons) it should be taken as an average of the models for that weight class currently in the game. For Assaults this conveniently came to 15 models totaling 1345 tons for an average of 89.6666666666, which I think we'll just round up to 90 tons. For lights its 13 models currently totaling 400 tons so 30.769 as the average and lets just round that down to 30 tons. For mediums we get an average of 49.70 which we round to 50 tons and heavies its 67.894 which can round up to 70 tons. This included everything currently released up to and including the Archers.

So if it also followed the 2/2/2/2 suggestion someone else made, (2 * 30) + (2 * 50) + (2 * 70) + (2 * 90) = 480 tons. There should be some number chosen though even if there isn't a requirement for actual different weight classes that doesn't see everyone just dropping warhawks, direwolves, executioners, banshees, atlases and king crabs otherwise where's the skill involved in proving they're really champions? It just becomes a game of meta assault builds instead. Might as well bring dire stars and accept that you'll explode after the second or third volley but you'll core out anything in the process. Then its just luck of who shoots first. Or who has the better macro to go through available firing groups without triggering ghost heat all off a single mouse key click.

Edited by Dee Eight, 05 April 2016 - 08:30 PM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

So, let's start here. The lightest mech in game is 20 tons, and the heaviest is 100. (100 + 20) / 2 = 60. 60 * 8 = 480 tons limit. Seems fair enough. That kinda assumes some very average stuff happening. So, you SHOULD be able to run a 2/2/2/2 deck at 480 tons. Can we?

LOLcust - 20
Oxide - 35
Cicada - 40
Griffin - 55
Quickdraw - 60
Black Night - 75
Zeus - 80
Atlas - 100.

Sum? 465. Gives you a little to play with.

So, I say we go with 470 or 480 for a tonnage limit, and say that combined you may have no more than 3 lights and assaults. That is, 3/x/x/0, 2/x/x/1, 1/x/x/2, or 0/x/x/3. MUST have EXACTLY three (the number of the counting shall be) mechs between those two classes, and must be 480 tons or less overall.

Yeah, I think that's it. My suggestion for the moment, until 80 other forum warriors come along and tell me how dumb I am.

Think of the three-mech rule this way...

IF you want to bring 2 assaults, then you're going to have to go a bit lighter on your mediums/heavies to be able to do it. Why? Because you only have ONE light mech to free up tonnage (relatively speaking). On the other hand, say you just GOTTA have some 75-tonners in there. Then you'll maybe forego the second assault and use two lights. OR maybe your team is really comfy with Cicadas and Quickdraws, so you can skip lights altogether and run three assaults. And so on. And the decision of which drop deck combination of lights/assaults to select is going to reflect a bit about the team's personality.

But that's just ME, and I could be bringing a hockey bat to the doubles football match here...

TL;DR- 470-480 tons upper limit, no lower limit, any combination of three mechs total between light and assault weight classes. I'm not smart.

Edited by Sister RAbbi, 05 April 2016 - 09:37 PM.

[Rushin Roulette]

Seeing as 8 Atlai vs. 8 Atlai would be terrible to watch and would seriously limit the tactical options of both teams to who can camp the best and who has the best patience. It would be like watching a replay of the independence war (redcoats vs. bluecoats).

Too light and you will make it too easy for light rushes and too heavy and you get the above scenario.

45 Tons per player minimum and 60 Tons max would give you a weight restriction between 360 and 480 Tons while still leaving the full spectrum of mechs possible depending on what team setup players are going for. The setup of mechs and players will then determine which team had the better planning and after that it is all down to team coherence and finally individual skill.

P. S. Could you please also expand the cheating rule to not only disqualify the team in question, but also to ban the caught players main account from the live server?

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 05 April 2016 - 09:48 PM.

[Corbon Zackery]

Tournament play tricky to set up to prevent power gaming by both sides.

Right now were looking at 3 formats
Format 1 IS vs. IS This is a pretty standard 8 on 8 format 450 ton limit that mean if you take a 100 ton atlas your stuck with about 50tons for the rest of the 7 teammates give or take.



IS vs. Clan Hard one due to the balance issue 8 on 8 450tons IS, 415 tons clan.


Clan vs. Clan 8 on 8 415 ton limit.

Seems well balanced to me.

As far as a 2/2/2/2 rule I am ok with that seem restrictive.

A example of a team under these rules would be.
Team! TROOPS!
Lord Vader: Atlas 100 tons
Royal Guard 1 : Warhammer 70
Royal Guard 2: Warhammer 70
TK 5001: Treb 50
Tk 5002: Treb 50
TK 5003: Blackjack 45
ST 0001 Raven 35
ST 0002 Spider 30

So to break down why I selected these mechs for my team. You have 2 ECM lights 2 with er large one with streaks.

3 flexible Mediums that can dish out impressive firepower. 2 Warhammers for support and one Atlas to soak damage.

This is only an example not going to be a fielded team. The 3 formats work. I don't think we need a 2/2/2/2 rule.

Its late I can't count for some reason

Edited by Corbon Zackery, 05 April 2016 - 10:32 PM.

[Cyrilis]

make the limit random.

Lets see how the world elite mechwarriors handle it if they cant use their preferred mechs. I think that aspect should be part of a WORLD championship!

[Rushin Roulette]

Corbon Zackery, on 05 April 2016 - 10:09 PM, said:

A example of a team under these rules would be.
Team! TROOPS!
Lord Vader: Atlas 100 tons
Royal Guard 1 : Warhammer 70
Royal Guard 2: Warhammer 70
TK 5001: Treb 50
Tk 5002: Treb 50
TK 5003: Blackjack 45
ST 0001 Commando 25
ST 0002 Locust 20
ST 0003 Locust 20

Umm... that is 9 mechs with 450 Tons... you still have room to expand upwards if you take away one Lolcust to fit the 8v8 format

Primus of ComStar, on 05 April 2016 - 05:06 PM, said:

Only one set of tonnage rules will be used throughout the entire round robin process. Due to an unfortunate typo in the initial Tournament Rules release, we want to clarify that the maximum tonnage a team of only 8 ‘Mechs can field is indeed 800 tons, not 1200. Likewise a team cannot take to the field with a tonnage value of 0.

damn... and here I was thinking you were finally adding the possibility of playing as a elemental or in the Omega Battlemech (8 times 150 gives you the 1200 Ton limit )

[Kurbeks]

2/2/2/2, with no duplicate chasis.


At worst 480 tonns

[Brut4ce]

Well Hello!

I'd advice getting in touch with players running all these leagues out there (eg. MRBC RHOD etc.), since they got more experience on these sort of things and discuss tonnage/loadout.chassis restriction to make for an interesting tournament, as most of those people have years of experience running those leagues.

Furthermore, after reading through the initial layout of the tournament as described in the dedicated web page, my personal suggestion would be;

- tonnage in the range of 400-500 tons
- 2/2/2/2 weight class format
- A single duplicate chassis allowed
- Since you are going to be using a dedicated client for this, and if you really want to avoid meta 'mechs and emphasize on diversity and tactics, you could lock weapon loadouts to available 'mechs, allowing customisations only to armour/structure/engine and misc. equipment such as DHS, Targeting computers, BAP, Artemis, Ammunition tonnage etc.

...Just my 2 cents