95 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

Lances107, on 14 April 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

Believe me I have been using smurfy. I did a test run on a gladiator assault mech and came up with this.
[url=http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=343&l=2ad22e4c4c4a1245408835e99f7379de29621eaf]

This I do not understand.

SHOULDER
UPPER ARM ACTUATOR
FIXED ARMOR SLOT
LOWER ARM ACTUATOR
HAND ACTUATOR

This really is a learning curve for me. In MW4 I could set just about any mech to anything I wanted provided it the space.

These things you listed are in mw4.
They were just untouchable or possibly not shown. (Mw3 not only showed them but kept them unchangeable. Mw2 is much the same, no option to change them.)

-----
.there is no way to get around chargeup. Just a fast experienced finger that holds for that 3/4th of a second or a macro. Either way it charges and fires. The sound doesn't play in spectator mode.

[Lances107]

I dont know, oh I can say is, I was looking right at his gauss rifle in the weapon group. It was a instant fire no charge up. It was somehow timed to fire exactly when he was done with a weapon group. It looked like no charge up, maybe it was macro.

I

[Wintersdark]

Lances107, on 15 April 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

I dont know, oh I can say is, I was looking right at his gauss rifle in the weapon group. It was a instant fire no charge up. It was somehow timed to fire exactly when he was done with a weapon group. It looked like no charge up, maybe it was macro.

I

No, it was charging as normal. It just doesn't show the charging when you're spectating.

Macro's don't change that. Macroes are actually really bad to use there, because you cannot control the moment of firing. Better to hold then release when the shot is right, or keep holding to not waste ammo when you can't get a good shot.

It's important to understand - for this and other things too - what you see when spectating is NOT a stream of the other player's client, it's a recreation based on incomplete information, and with different latency. So, what you see and what that player sees can be entirely different.

You'll see this in action when a player fires lasers at an enemy, the crosshairs flash red for the whole burn, but the lasers never actually touch the target: This happens because of latency+HSR. On the other player's screen, he's seeing a direct hit. You see what the server sees, and the server runs HSR rollback to correct for latency to determine if there's a hit. Likewise, weapon groups are NOT what that player has set, FOV settings are YOUR settings, not his, etc.

Just understand that what you view while spectating is not what the other player sees, nor is it complete.

[Lances107]

Good to know

[Lances107]

It seems I have more to learn.....
I was in a match and another player was mentioning how we were wasting our LRMs even though we were well with in range. I did not understand at the time. So I did a bit of research, and found out they are not a fire and forget weapon. I even learned that at close ranges they do little to no damage.

Based on what I have seen in the field the average lock on lasts for no more then a minute, and a minute would be generous, so now it becomes how does one use LRMs properly. If the lock ons in the field are such a small window, then how do you not use LRMs in a fire and forget fashion after your initial lock on.

I hope that makes sense. Again any help would be appreciated.

[JC Daxion]

IS LRM's

do not do any damage under 180m

Clan LRM's

Will do damage under 180m, but in reality, if you are using them under about 140-150, they aren't doing anywhere near enough to be worth the ammo or heat. the amount of damage is on a curve, So 180 full, 150, i think is something like half, 120, its barely 1/4 if memory serves me correct. Maybe some kind soul has a linky to the chart.. I forget where i saw it, but i do know it was a rapid drop off down to nothing. Pretty much you would only fire them say under 140-150 if either you had no other weapons, or the target is basically dead anyway.


General Lock info

As far as locks go, they are completely unreliable most of the time, unless someone gets into a brawl out in the open, but at that point you can most likely grab the lock yourself.

Personally i run my LRM mechs light on ammo, and i pretty much only fire if i have my own lock. I only blind fire if something is narc'd, or i know it's out in the open in a brawl. Though if i am on a decent team and notice one person holding locks very well i might, but by that point i am most likely in LOS anyway to help share armor and distract.

Locks take a few seconds to grab, Adding Artemis, BAP, TAG, NARC will all speed up your lock acquire time.



TAG

If you are running an LRM mech, do yourself a favor and try to load up Tag every time, even if you just have a single 15 launcher. it's worth it. It can also counter ECM at range which is totally sweet. ECM guy gets out in the open, Tag um, and lock up and watch your team light um up with direct fire weapons.


BAP

For LRM use, i pretty much only use it on mechs i know that can spare the weight, OR if it has little to no energy hard points and i need it for something else. But if i can spare the weight, its well worth adding.


NARC

Locked on before you fire, and target is narc'd, I am not sure if you need to hold the lock or not, but holding your lock on a Narc'd target is about as easy as it gets.. just face in the general direction.. i can't recall if you can face in another or not, perhaps you can.. it's just been a while since I've used it.



Lastly

If you loose lock, the missiles no longer track and if they move you miss. You can however reacquire your lock and get um back on track.

Edited by JC Daxion, 23 April 2016 - 12:54 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Lances107, on 22 April 2016 - 11:36 PM, said:

It seems I have more to learn.....
I was in a match and another player was mentioning how we were wasting our LRMs even though we were well with in range. I did not understand at the time. So I did a bit of research, and found out they are not a fire and forget weapon. I even learned that at close ranges they do little to no damage.

Based on what I have seen in the field the average lock on lasts for no more then a minute, and a minute would be generous, so now it becomes how does one use LRMs properly. If the lock ons in the field are such a small window, then how do you not use LRMs in a fire and forget fashion after your initial lock on.

I hope that makes sense. Again any help would be appreciated.

the best way to use LRMs is inside 600m with line of sight and preferably your own TAG on target, be sure the enemy Mech cannot make it to LRM proof cover and fire, that is about the only way you can be confidant they will hit.
otherwise memorise all the maps so you know exactly is between you and the enemy.

if you target on a lock someone else provides you do not know how long that player will keep the lock, if the lock is lost the missiles are unlikely to hit.

my preference is 4-6 LRM5s chain fired at 200-400m, most will hit CT, the enemy is unlikely to make cover so you are putting meaningful damage on the Mech rather than just spreading damage over the whole Mech.

if you loose a lock, the missiles fly to the last known location of the Mech however if you loose and reacquire the missiles will start tracking again.

the further away from the target you are the higher the arc the missiles fly in

if someone puts anything between themselves and your missiles the missiles will hit the obstruction and not the enemy Mech, unless you are far enough away that the missiles will arc over the obstruction.

[Lances107]

I think I am getting this. LRMs can be a fire and forget weapon, but they wont follow the target if you lose lock, and are useless at anything below 150 meters. Thank you for the clarification on this.

[p4r4g0n]

Actually, the minimum range for IS LRMs is 180m as stated in an earlier post. Also, it should be noted that firing on a target 1,000m away is a waste of time as the distance indicated on the HUD is a straight line distance while the maximum distance of LRMs travelling in an arc is 1,000m.

This means that if the target is 1,000m away, the LRMs travelling in an arc will detonate short of the target.

You may also be interested to know that LRMs are usable in the HPG Manifold basement and under the platform on Crimson Strait provided you are within 250m of the target.

Edited by p4r4g0n, 23 April 2016 - 09:05 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Lances107, on 23 April 2016 - 08:53 AM, said:

I think I am getting this. LRMs can be a fire and forget weapon, but they wont follow the target if you lose lock, and are useless at anything below 150 meters. Thank you for the clarification on this.

LRMs are not fire and forget, if your target is moving and you do not hold the missile lock until the LRMs reach the target they are unlikely to hit as they will fly to the location the target was at when lost the lock.

Clan LRMs do decreasing damage from 180 - 0 m, yes much closet than 150m they do negligible damage, however with Clan LRMs if you do not have backup weapons they are better than nothing up close.

IS LRMs will only cause minor cockpit shake at 179.999 meters or less, no damage

[Koniving]

The only way to use lrms as a fire and forget weapon, that is like rockets, is to aim at a surface you wish to hit. Missiles will attack that surface. If your enemy keeps popping into that spot there is a chance of hitting. Beyond this... You must hold the lock unless your target is camping or very likely to step back and return there before the missiles hit.

[ExoForce]

Do not trust to the visual missile lock.
Line of sight, enemy targeted by you - 1 audio lock signal *click*,
No line of sight (enemy targeted by your teammate) - 2 audio lock signals *click click*

p4r4g0n, on 23 April 2016 - 09:02 AM, said:

You may also be interested to know that LRMs are usable in the HPG Manifold basement and under the platform on Crimson Strait provided you are within 250m of the target.

You may also be interested to know that air strikes are usable in the HPG Manifold basement and under the platform on Crimson Strait or River City...

[Lances107]

The 1000 meter information thank you, that makes sense, and I did not think about that.
As for the fire and forget you are correct but you have to take into account a LRM battle. In most cases the other mech does not move as they are sitting in location using thier own LRMs, in these cases you treat the LRM as a fire and forget weapon. If the target is moving yes your point is well taken, in that particular case it is not a fire and forget.

I nearly had the timber wolf build down and then my brain started to think about targeting computers. The tonage on these is extreme and I dont see how you can pick up one thats going to have a solid effect, without dumping a good bit of weapons. So you guys can see what Ive done by way of tons here you go.
[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f3626c25d9059e5[/smurfy]

TBR-PRIME

[Rogue Jedi]

Lances107, on 23 April 2016 - 12:12 PM, said:

In most cases the other mech does not move as they are sitting in location using thier own LRMs, in these cases you treat the LRM as a fire and forget weapon. If the target is moving yes your point is well taken, in that particular case it is not a fire and forget.

as you get better that will become rather rare, if someone is standing still when fighting they are making a serious mistake, you should always be moving while fighting, even if staying in the same area at least be moving back and forwards or side to side a little to prevent the enemy sharpshooters from lining up a perfect shot, perhaps stop for 1-2 second to line up a shot if needed or if you know you are in cover, but no-one should be standing still out in the open unless they are an inexperienced player or suicidal.

Stopping moving in any Mech while in combat is usually a bad idea ^{(of course the smaller the Mech the worse it is)} because that allows the enemy to line up a shot with their accurate energy or ballistic weapons, with many of the current alpha strike builds 2 good hits is often enough to take out a heavy Mech, so keep moving.

[Lances107]

I hear you its just hard moving in this game with torso turned, because they made torso one command, instead of torso left or torso right. Best way I can describe what I am saying is this with mouse and keyboard, your mouse is target and torso, so every time you move to target you move your torso. At least mostly anyways you end up moving your torso. The same for the joystick only every time you turn their is a chance you will move your torso out of place. I am trying to adapt to so I can be better while on the move.

I am not asking for anyone's build but I could really use some help on the targeting computers and how they pan out. I see percentages and what not but I sort of lost as is it worth it or not. I can see them on assaults but anyways guess work at this point.

[Koniving]

Targeting computers are an interesting oddity here. PGI's design for them is baffling compared to the lore, but here's what it amounts to. The higher the number, the larger the space, tonnage, and benefit you get.

They benefit zoom levels, bullet and PPC speeds (not firing rates but projectile traveling), laser range, sensor data gathering and really that's about it.

I really only use them to enhance bullet speeds, but since they often don't do jack for my LBX (unless they started tightening spread or enhancing LBX projectile speed), I hardly use them at all anymore unless I'm packing boatloads of SPLs.

[Lances107]

Here is the question then if it increases the projectiles speed, does that by result increase the projectiles damage?

[p4r4g0n]

ExoForce, on 23 April 2016 - 11:20 AM, said:

-snip-

You may also be interested to know that air strikes are usable in the HPG Manifold basement and under the platform on Crimson Strait or River City...

Could you clarify what you mean by this?

As far as I know, you can initiate air/artillery strikes underneath the platform and in basement but the the strikes hit the surface above the smoke and not where the smoke actually is. If this is what you meant, the way you phrased it could be misunderstood.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

p4r4g0n, on 23 April 2016 - 08:23 PM, said:

Could you clarify what you mean by this?

As far as I know, you can initiate air/artillery strikes underneath the platform and in basement but the the strikes hit the surface above the smoke and not where the smoke actually is. If this is what you meant, the way you phrased it could be misunderstood.

You're correct. A good use for them in the example? You're under the platform on Crimson Strait. Your enemy is directly overhead (seismic sensor confirms). You want to hit him, but you're kinda pinned down by him and his teammates up there. You drop a strike right underneath them. Not only will it hit up top, but they won't even see the smoke because it's underneath, where you are. Before strikes got nerfed into reasonable-ness, that was a DEADLY surprise for the enemy.

Less useful on HPG, because there's solid cover overhead for the folks on the top platform. Takes a good bit of practice to figure out how far in from the basement walls you can drop a strike, and still hit the surface of the upstairs platform. For someone on the mid-level outside, above one of the basement entrances, it can still be pretty effective though.

On Tourmaline, certain outcroppings that tend to turn into sniper roosts in the underhive, can have a strike placed directly underneath of them to good effect on the top.

Also be aware of how the direction of an AIR strike is oriented, ad be able to use that to place a strike effectively while keeping the smoke out of the target's view.

LOTS to know about strikes, man. Lots...

[ExoForce]

Sister RAbbi is correct, very good explanation.

Each separate strike projectile has certain damage radius, so it will inflict damage in its radius vicinity.

Edited by ExoForce, 23 April 2016 - 11:41 PM.