143 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Akulla1980, on 07 April 2016 - 01:16 AM, said:

Always getting burned down by high alpha laser try-hards. Its making it impossible to skill up mixed hard point builds.

Did I hear they are trying to fix this issue?

What kind of mixed hard point mechs?

As long as you focus on a certain engagement range you should be fine, map and teamwork dependent of course. If you run face first into an enemy 400 m away yeah you are going to get punished for it.

[KHETTI]

I run mixed builds and anything that's non-laser-vomit-crutch-meta when and where i can.
TBH this game in its current form is BLAND and STALE!, thx to the tryhard crybabies who bombard the forums with their desperate crys for Quirks!

BTW only p*****s run BKs.

Welcome to Watered down, no skill required, laser vomit online- you will be required to master only using one weapon group, rely on over-quirking , use the same loadout for all your mechs.

Rant over, and back to WoWs! (<---Sad that this is currently more fun than MWO)

[Gas Guzzler]

KHETTI, on 07 April 2016 - 08:25 AM, said:

I run mixed builds and anything that's non-laser-vomit-crutch-meta when and where i can.
TBH this game in its current form is BLAND and STALE!, thx to the tryhard crybabies who bombard the forums with their desperate crys for Quirks!

BTW only p*****s run BKs.

Welcome to Watered down, no skill required, laser vomit online- you will be required to master only using one weapon group, rely on over-quirking , use the same loadout for all your mechs.

Rant over, and back to WoWs! (<---Sad that this is currently more fun than MWO)

Its also sad that your rant is based on false information. I'm sorry MWO is too hard for you.

Milocinia, on 07 April 2016 - 07:47 AM, said:

They were all 10M behind me because Atlas. I rarely lone rambo unless I'm in a clear flank position at a safe range.

Turn the corner, 23 multicoloured sticks of light burn into my CT and pop. It was 3 mechs too, not 12.

If you had proper scouting information you would have known not to round a corner in a HUGE target in front of a firing line, or you should have at least twisted your arm into them immediately.

CD LoreHammer Lord, on 07 April 2016 - 06:41 AM, said:

While this is true I think he was alluding to the split second it took to twist his torso in a (you're right) hopeless attempt to spread damage.
Rambo's should die but should they die in less than a second to everyone opposing hitting one specific location simultaneously? That's where I say no. TTK should be balanced better.

I guess if it happened to me more often I might consider it an issue, but it is so rare and so obviously attributed to my own mistake that I don't feel the need to ask the developer to change the game on my behalf.

[KHETTI]

Gas Guzzler, on 07 April 2016 - 08:28 AM, said:

Its also sad that your rant is based on false information. I'm sorry MWO is too hard for you.

Dunno what game you are playing, false info?!, are you f***ing kidding me!
Oh the obligatory insult, not a great effort on your part, but you know, when someone has nothing of substance to say, they just throw insults at you.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

If I'm remembering right, you only get 3 weapon module slots at most which means only 1 weapon type can benefit from having both cooldown and range mods. That could represent the main reason behind people boating assorted vomit types. If there were 4 weapon module slots, then you could have cooldown and range on 2 different types and it might be more feasible to run mixed builds.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Atlas and orion pilots.

And... that's about it.

[Ultimax]

Akulla1980, on 07 April 2016 - 01:03 AM, said:

All I almost exclusively see is all energy builds. Or some Dakka ones as well Yeah I know they are so easy to run. But damn cant some guys do something, anything else. Or is it to hard???

For the vast majority of mechs its simply inefficient design.

The only mech I can think of that is both meta-compliant (in its application) and uses a mixed build would be any variation of Atlas Brawler as they tend to have an AC, SRMs and Medium lasers.

Even with that, practically speaking the lasers are mostly there as backup weapons and generate extra heat you're often better off avoiding mid-brawl.

Edited by Ultimax, 07 April 2016 - 08:42 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

KHETTI, on 07 April 2016 - 08:34 AM, said:

Dunno what game you are playing, false info?!, are you f***ing kidding me!

No he isn't, because surprise, laser vomit isn't as dominant as it used to be.

Example, here is our drop dec from an MRBC match we played last night:
x2 MAL-MX90 (3 AC5/2 UAC5)
x1 TBR-PRIME (2 ERPPC/Gauss)
x1 BL-7-KNT-L (3 LPL/5 ML)
x1 HBK-IIC-A (3 LPLs)
x1 SCR-PRIME (Streaks)
x1 JR7-IIC (Splat)
x1 ACH-PRIME (SPLs)

Only 3 of those 8 mechs had lasers, and that is not an atypical meta drop dec.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 07 April 2016 - 08:46 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

KHETTI, on 07 April 2016 - 08:34 AM, said:

Dunno what game you are playing, false info?!, are you f***ing kidding me!
Oh the obligatory insult, not a great effort on your part, but you know, when someone has nothing of substance to say, they just throw insults at you.

I have said what needs to be said before TO YOU but you have obviously ignored it, so if you are going to ignore my arguments and just whine and complain, than good riddance, go play another game. I'll try one more time though, just because I like you.

"Laser Vomit" is not the only meta in this game, period.

SRMs
Gauss
ACs (especially AC5s)
PPCs (i know shocking, but they will get a look once in a while)
Lasers

Are all "comp" worthy weapons. Why do you see primarily lasers in the solo queue you ask? It has to do with random map and random team. Laser vomit happens to be a good middle of the road, that doesn't rely on your team to stick with you or in other words, actually play as a team. If you drop in a brawler with SRMs and your entire team is LRMs, ERLL, and Gauss, guess what? You're gonna have a bad time. So if we go and nerf it because it doesn't allow people to run crap builds in the solo queue (really it does, I have done it, its not impossible. Stock unbasiced HGN-IIC-B can STILL put out 500 damage...) then all of a sudden in the group queue and competitive play, lasers are gone. Should we remove a weapon from contention just because its reasonably versatile?

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

almost every atlas I see runs mixed builds.

My atlas runs srm6s and an ac20.

Also my king crab runs 2x ultra ac5s and 2x LPL

[Ultimax]

Gas Guzzler, on 07 April 2016 - 08:42 AM, said:

Are all "comp" worthy weapons. Why do you see primarily lasers in the solo queue you ask? It has to do with random map and random team. Laser vomit happens to be a good middle of the road, that doesn't rely on your team to stick with you or in other words, actually play as a team.

My favorite part about this is that all of the salty tears about whatever weapon combo is currently the meta often come from the same players who would be against knowing what map and mode you will get to play on while you spin the Wheel of Pug-Fortune.

They complain that people would then optimize for that map.


Well, yes, that's actually the entire ******* point you complete doughnut.

If we could optimize for the map and mode than I'd be more prone to solo dropping in an SRM only Griffin when the right maps come up - so I'm not stuck in an 600m stand off on Grim Plexus with my thumbs up my ***.


Russ even shot it down, he hates the idea of optimizing for map and mode - OK fine, then please STFU about whatever mid-range build is prolific because you have created the perfect conditions for "middle of the road" mid-ranged builds to be the most prevalent.

Edited by Ultimax, 07 April 2016 - 08:48 AM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

I still think boat builds are a symptom of weapon module limitations.

People with a +12% medium laser range and +12% medium laser cooldown maximize their weapons modules but boating as many medium lasers as possible. The same principle applies to LPL's, MPL's, AC's and so on.

1-2 additional weapons module slots would allow someone to have range and cooldown modifiers for more than 1 weapon type. That's probably the angle people are looking for which would make mixed builds more feasible.

[Ultimax]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 07 April 2016 - 08:42 AM, said:

No he isn't, because surprise, laser vomit isn't as dominant as it used to be.

Example, here is our drop dec from an MRBC match we played last night:
x2 MAL-MX90 (3 AC5/2 UAC5)
x1 TBR-PRIME (2 ERPPC/Gauss)
x1 BL-7-KNT-L (3 LPL/5 ML)
x1 HBK-IIC-A (3 LPLs)
x1 SCR-PRIME (Streaks)
x1 JR7-IIC (Splat)
x1 ACH-PRIME (SPLs)

Only 3 of those 8 mechs had lasers, and that is not an atypical meta drop dec.

Basically this.

If you want to spend all your time playing full derp queue mode, then don't expect much.

If you want to experience more interesting gameplay - then you want to play organized matches.



The best part is that, while the roles aren't what most MWO players probably think of, the reason for such a diverse team loadout like that is because there are in fact roles being filled by those different mechs.

Yes, they are primarily combat roles - but they are actually different combat roles.


That's what happens when you have interesting team build limitations and a game mode like conquest being fully utilized.

[FupDup]

I Zeratul I, on 07 April 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

I still think boat builds are a symptom of weapon module limitations.

People with a +12% medium laser range and +12% medium laser cooldown maximize their weapons modules but boating as many medium lasers as possible. The same principle applies to LPL's, MPL's, AC's and so on.

1-2 additional weapons module slots would allow someone to have range and cooldown modifiers for more than 1 weapon type. That's probably the angle people are looking for which would make mixed builds more feasible.

People boated before MWO even existed. People boated in previous PC MW games. People boated in Tabletop itself.

People boat for two primary reasons:

1. It kills people faster when you specialize in one particular range/niche, rather than spreading yourself thin across multiple roles. Basically, sometimes the effort to be good at everything makes you actually suck at everything. It's better to just do one thing really really well.

2. It's easier and more intuitive to play a mech with only a few weapon types than it is to play a mech with 6 or more weapon groups that are not even remotely related to each other or synergistic in any way.

Edited by FupDup, 07 April 2016 - 08:57 AM.

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 07 April 2016 - 08:57 AM, said:

People boated before MWO even existed. People boated in previous PC MW games. People boated in Tabletop itself.

People boat for two primary reasons:

1. It kills people faster when you specialize in one particular range/niche, rather than spreading yourself thin across multiple roles. Basically, sometimes the effort to be good at everything makes you actually suck at everything. It's better to just do one thing really really well.

2. It's easier and more intuitive to play a mech with only a few weapon types than it is to play a mech with 6 or more weapon groups that are not even remotely related to each other or synergistic in any way.

For me this conversation always begs the question.

What the hell do you need, literally, hundreds of different mechs each with different variants, if many of them are going to be "general purpose" mixed loadout non-specialists?

It makes no sense at all.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

FupDup, on 07 April 2016 - 08:57 AM, said:

People boated before MWO even existed. People boated in previous PC MW games. People boated in Tabletop itself.

People boat for two primary reasons:

1. It kills people faster when you specialize in one particular range/niche, rather than spreading yourself thin across multiple roles. Basically, sometimes the effort to be good at everything makes you actually suck at everything. It's better to just do one thing really really well.

2. It's easier and more intuitive to play a mech with only a few weapon types than it is to play a mech with 6 or more weapon groups that are not even remotely related to each other or synergistic in any way.

Usually when I see people boating a single weapon type in game they have 3 large lasers and only know how to alpha(maybe they only have 1 button on their mouse, so all they can do is alpha). They overheat quickly and their lifespan doesn't tend to be very long. It doesn't matter what they're boating whether its ER LL's, LPL's, MPL's, SPL's all their weapons are linked to the same firing group and they overheat without inflicting much damage, although I have seen a few exceptions.

More experienced pilots tend to use mixed builds and know to balance their heat generating energy weapons with autocannons or gauss to create a high damage, with relatively low heat combo.

I don't really understand why people are complaining about builds that boat the same weapon type. A lot of the people that use those builds are free kills anyway.

For me the only time I boat anything is to get those module quirks. There aren't any real advantages to boating single weapon types other than uniformity and simplicity.

Edited by I Zeratul I, 07 April 2016 - 09:22 AM.

[Barantor]

Some of the problem with the mixed builds is that they are built for a game in which you don't just fight mechs, you fight aerospace, tanks, infantry and battle armor.

For that you don't need some super high heat laser all the time, you might just need a medium laser to pop an apc and some machine guns to pop a bunch of infantry at once.

I try to use what I call 'superstock' with my mechs. I try and stick somewhat close to the stock build but upgrade things like DHS, endo, etc.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Barantor, on 07 April 2016 - 09:27 AM, said:

Some of the problem with the mixed builds is that they are built for a game in which you don't just fight mechs, you fight aerospace, tanks, infantry and battle armor.

Which is why you take a mech specialized for that role rather than general purpose mechs, even in TT this was the case.

[xengk]

I run mix build with overlapping range whenever possible.

Assault going slower than 70kph will always carry at least 1 rack of LRM, so I can contribute to the front even before I get there.
My energy brawler tend to carry one or pair of LL/PPC/LPL for early poke and range touch. (Grasshopper 5N 1x PPC, 4x ML, 3x SPL) (Awesome 8Q 5x MPL, 2x PPC)

[Chimera_]

The most diverse mech I've ran was the HGN-732B, w/ dual AC5, dual LL, LRM 10 and an SRM 6. Of course a single LRM 10 really isn't worth it, so I swapped it out for more SRMs later.

Managing 4 different weapon types/groups is fun though, it adds a little more complexity. Too bad it's just not very good.