1016 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Snazzy Dragon, on 13 January 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

Power creeping the IS in any way, shape, or form seems to be strictly forbidden after we had thunderbolts, a mech you can't buy in the store, performed nearly as well as all the clan mechs available for purchase.

The fact that we had to use 50% quirks on heat gen and velocities to get IS that close to balance with the clans says enough, IMO.

The quirk situation in general shows you how far off the numbers on the old tech is, too. Like, cool-down is 0.25 seconds too long, heat is 1 point too high, and duration is 0.08 seconds too long on the Medium Laser. Range is about 50 meters too short on the Large Laser. Duration is 0.20 seconds too long on the ER Large Laser (and a similar 0.25 seconds too long on the cERLL). Rate of fire is 15-20% too slow on standard ACs. Velocity is 20% too slow on the AC/10, 30% too slow on PPCs. Heat is 2 and 3 points too high on PPC and ER PPC, respectively.

Even with all of the numbers being where they should be on the weapons, there are some roles that simply can't be filled adequately with what we have now.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 13 January 2017 - 02:52 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 January 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

You know, the more I play with this, the more it makes me angry that PGI will not add new equipment. Light ACs combined with LFEs, ER Lasers, X-pulse, PPC capacitors, etc. all go a long, long way toward evening out the game without bastardizing the older stuff.

Honestly... it also really shows me how broke clan tech is. It's funny that a LOT of IS Future Tech is barely, if at all out of line with Level 1 tech. Light and Heavy PPCs, even Snub Nose, all really line up well with normal PPCs. Light ACs also fit well. Streaks, check! Some of the Lasers are wonky, but a lot of the IS Future Tech, is how Clan Tech SHOULD have been.

But it's so much more fun to build Future Tech models of IS Classics. I have Warhammers, Marauders, Archers and Rifleman that just, IMO, really nail the feel and roles.

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 January 2017 - 03:07 PM, said:

Honestly... it also really shows me how broke clan tech is. It's funny that a LOT of IS Future Tech is barely, if at all out of line with Level 1 tech. Light and Heavy PPCs, even Snub Nose, all really line up well with normal PPCs. Light ACs also fit well. Streaks, check! Some of the Lasers are wonky, but a lot of the IS Future Tech, is how Clan Tech SHOULD have been.

But it's so much more fun to build Future Tech models of IS Classics. I have Warhammers, Marauders, Archers and Rifleman that just, IMO, really nail the feel and roles.

For future IS tech, there's only two things that make me gripe. First is that Compact Heat-sinks weigh a half-ton more, as if being SHS wasn't enough of a penalty. Second is that X-Pulse are still too short-ranged; they would still be in the same engagement brackets as their standard pulse counterparts if we got them as-is in MWO.

But in general, I do agree that they got the feel down pretty good for IS Future Tech. You never get any improved performance for free with IS tech, it's all some skewed version of the old base tech. Clan-tech has no trade-offs except in BattleValue, and even that is largely considered broken despite being reworked once already. To rub salt in the wound, they decided that the reason Clan-tech is superior is not because their scientists are smarter or because they didn't have a dark age (they, in fact, did have a dark age) but because they found fairy dust unobtainium on their worlds that lets them do stuff you can't do in the Inner Sphere. They then had the audacity to move some of that fairy dust unobtainium to the Inner Sphere only when Clan Diamond Shark moved to the Inner Sphere to be the sole source for it just like they were in the Clan domain. Yeah, sorry RestosIII, that's some mega-shite world-building, CDS should never have been able to find harjel in the IS that wasn't already being exploited by the IS if the material is as useful as the lore says it is.

[Metus regem]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 January 2017 - 03:34 PM, said:

For future IS tech, there's only two things that make me gripe. First is that Compact Heat-sinks weigh a half-ton more, as if being SHS wasn't enough of a penalty. Second is that X-Pulse are still too short-ranged; they would still be in the same engagement brackets as their standard pulse counterparts if we got them as-is in MWO.

But in general, I do agree that they got the feel down pretty good for IS Future Tech. You never get any improved performance for free with IS tech, it's all some skewed version of the old base tech. Clan-tech has no trade-offs except in BattleValue, and even that is largely considered broken despite being reworked once already. To rub salt in the wound, they decided that the reason Clan-tech is superior is not because their scientists are smarter or because they didn't have a dark age (they, in fact, did have a dark age) but because they found fairy dust unobtainium on their worlds that lets them do stuff you can't do in the Inner Sphere. They then had the audacity to move some of that fairy dust unobtainium to the Inner Sphere only when Clan Diamond Shark moved to the Inner Sphere to be the sole source for it just like they were in the Clan domain. Yeah, sorry RestosIII, that's some mega-shite world-building, CDS should never have been able to find harjel in the IS that wasn't already being exploited by the IS if the material is as useful as the lore says it is.

It's why I reworked the clans in my current TT campaign to be a SLCF (Star League Crusade Force), rather than use Clan Tech, they use advanced IS tech with all the trade offs... LFE's in place of Standards, isXL engines, 14 slot Endo/FF, 3 slot DHS, UAC2/5/10/20, LB2/5/10/20, ERSL/ERML/ERLL, SSRM2/4/6, LPPC, HPPC and the PPC-C... that's all the advanced kit they have in 3050, and you know what, they are way more balanced vs 3050 era IS mechs.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 January 2017 - 03:07 PM, said:

But it's so much more fun to build Future Tech models of IS Classics. I have Warhammers, Marauders, Archers and Rifleman that just, IMO, really nail the feel and roles.

I don't care if it fits the original role, the MAD-9M2 just tickles me like no other IS heavy from the future. Probably has to do with the fact it is like the Timby D but without the inflated BV.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 13 January 2017 - 03:48 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 January 2017 - 03:34 PM, said:

For future IS tech, there's only two things that make me gripe. First is that Compact Heat-sinks weigh a half-ton more, as if being SHS wasn't enough of a penalty. Second is that X-Pulse are still too short-ranged; they would still be in the same engagement brackets as their standard pulse counterparts if we got them as-is in MWO.

But in general, I do agree that they got the feel down pretty good for IS Future Tech. You never get any improved performance for free with IS tech, it's all some skewed version of the old base tech. Clan-tech has no trade-offs except in BattleValue, and even that is largely considered broken despite being reworked once already. To rub salt in the wound, they decided that the reason Clan-tech is superior is not because their scientists are smarter or because they didn't have a dark age (they, in fact, did have a dark age) but because they found fairy dust unobtainium on their worlds that lets them do stuff you can't do in the Inner Sphere. They then had the audacity to move some of that fairy dust unobtainium to the Inner Sphere only when Clan Diamond Shark moved to the Inner Sphere to be the sole source for it just like they were in the Clan domain. Yeah, sorry RestosIII, that's some mega-shite world-building, CDS should never have been able to find harjel in the IS that wasn't already being exploited by the IS if the material is as useful as the lore says it is.

X Pulse Range is what Pulse Should have been in the first place. Both SPL and MPL double in weight, and got more heat, the LPL adds 2 tons... and the MPL and LPL get nerfed 33% of their range for their troubles. Truth be told, in my tome of house rules, that is pretty much what I intend to do, and just remove X-Pulse entirely. There are some things, I can live with, but Pulse Lasers are just handled stupidly. Clans PLs are OPaF, and IS PLs are WaF. In both cases, I returned them to standard Laser range to be honest. The only time MPLs for instance are remotely better than normal lasers... arguably... is 2 hexes or less. Their short range largely negates their to hit bonus, and their extra damage doesn't add up for double mass.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 January 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

There are some things, I can live with, but Pulse Lasers are just handled stupidly.

I would agree with this, I kinda wish one of the laser families was like a RAC, LBX, or something like that to simulate the fact that a long enough beam would spread damage like they do in this game. The idea that both would be PPFLD (which is still a thing even in that game ) one is just more accurate for the tonnage was kind of silly (especially considering how much more accurate it was). BV didn't fix things either.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 13 January 2017 - 03:56 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 January 2017 - 03:48 PM, said:

I don't care if it fits the original role, the MAD-9M2 just tickles me like no other IS heavy from the future. Probably has to do with the fact it is like the Timby D but without the inflated BV.

I take my MADs totally different.

300 Light (4/6), 13.5 tons Std Armor, 18 DHS, 1x Hvy PPC (RT), 2x Snub Nose PPC (RA/LA), 2x Light PPC (RA/LA) and a c3 Slave (C3 is pretty standard on my designs) at long range teh Light and Hvy PPC do decent work, while up close, the Snub Nose and Hvy put big holes in things.

My 3025 MAD design moves the stock armor, packs 22 SHS, and has 1x LL/1x ML in each arm with a PPC in the RT... because it just fits the mech better, IMO.

Whereas my Warhammers fill the brute juggernaut role, with twin Hvy PPC, 4x ERMLs and a SSRM6, plus C3.

Real fun is my 40 ton Rifleman 3, with 6/9 movement, 4x Light PPC and a targeting comp.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 13 January 2017 - 04:02 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 January 2017 - 04:00 PM, said:

My 3025 MAD design moves the stock armor, packs 22 SHS, and has 1x LL/1x ML in each arm with a PPC in the RT... because it just fits the mech better, IMO.

But it has less PPCs, which is never good (for style).

Actually now that I think about it, I really wish there was a Marauder II or something with 3 Heavy PPCs, because why not (never bothered to look to see if there was something with that loadout either).

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 January 2017 - 04:05 PM, said:

But it has less PPCs, which is never good (for style).

Actually now that I think about it, I really wish there was a Marauder II or something with 3 Heavy PPCs, because why not (never bothered to look to see if there was something with that loadout either).

really hard to do it in the IS.... same issue the Awesome 9M has...3 crit DHS just can't pack in enough. you can get about 20 DHS in before things get too cramped, overall.... on a 100 tonner with a 400xl I can stick in.. like 14...if I do it just right... but have...12.5 tons of armor.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 13 January 2017 - 04:27 PM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 January 2017 - 04:24 PM, said:

really hard to do it in the IS.... same issue the Awesome 9M has...3 crit DHS just can't pack in enough.

Compact DHS!

Oh wait, it weighs 1.5 tons

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 January 2017 - 04:05 PM, said:

But it has less PPCs, which is never good (for style).

True, but I did it specifically to differentiate it more from the WHM. Plus it can fire all it's lasers for no heat, which makes it much better at in fighting than any of the official MADs, while it does lose some long range punch, overall, it can fire the PPC and both LL every other turn, alternating it with just one LL and the PPC, and stay heat neutral at range, so under 15 hexes, it actually does more damage, period. (every 2 rds the 2 PPC mad does 40 dmg, while this does 44)

Also did it originally as a Second Succession War design for Marik. Their 3Ms are noted for packing LLs because they can't produce PPCs... I surmised that early on, before going to the 3M, they would distribute the remaining PPCs across the ranks, so by going to 1 ppc it kept them with more punch... and they only went to the AC5 when they ran out of PPCs entirely.

Also, when you look at the WHM, Awesome and Vindicator, they all have pig, long PPCs... then the MAD shows up with these dainty little pods.... just felt an LL was a better fit.

My "alpha" lance, 3025:


and two of these


and I feel pretty comfortable with my odds against pretty much any other 3025 lance.

[TheArisen]

Looks like we're getting 3060 tech so the 9SS with it's ultra20 & lbx20 should be just fine now. That also opens things up for more new variants with 3060 tech.

[FLG 01]

Indeed, there are some fine new options now. In fact, I am preparing some right now, will post them later today. I think you might like one or two.

[TheArisen]

FLG 01, on 14 January 2017 - 12:36 AM, said:

Indeed, there are some fine new options now. In fact, I am preparing some right now, will post them later today. I think you might like one or two.

Awesome!

[TheArisen]

A relatively new Nightstar fan has done some artwork of the Nightstar but needs help posting it here on the forums. Anyone able to help?

[FLG 01]

TheArisen, on 14 January 2017 - 02:17 AM, said:

A relatively new Nightstar fan has done some artwork of the Nightstar but needs help posting it here on the forums. Anyone able to help?

What is the problem? Just upload it somewhere (imgur.com e.g.) and post it here (click on the image-button).





Anyway, here are my three NSR-13 variants; one Steiner, one Davion, one ComStar. I wrote quite a lot on their background, and politics within the industrial-military complex. It may be a bit dry but I tried to explain some things...


NSR-13S





NSR-13D





NSR-13CS

[Josh Seles]

The announcement about new tech has me excited. It's about damn time for some new weapons, makes me want that NSR-9SS, and every other Nightstar more. I know I'll be swapping for Light Engines on every single IS mech I have and get in the future, regardless of what it is. If we didn't achieve good balance using current tech in 4 YEARS, we'll NEVER achieve it.

However, it's very unfortunate that I can't simply post a picture on these forums directly from my computer. Really?

[TheArisen]

Josh Seles, on 14 January 2017 - 03:26 PM, said:

The announcement about new tech has me excited. It's about damn time for some new weapons, makes me want that NSR-9SS, and every other Nightstar more. I know I'll be swapping for Light Engines on every single IS mech I have and get in the future, regardless of what it is. If we didn't achieve good balance using current tech in 4 YEARS, we'll NEVER achieve it.

However, it's very unfortunate that I can't simply post a picture on these forums directly from my computer. Really?

It's a bit strange because I've posted a few pictures on here straight from my computer. But most certainly new tech opens up new possibilities for the Nightstar.

[TheArisen]

Here's a different take on the NSR.
×3 Plasma cannons with 7 tons of ammo
×3 Medium lasers
ECM
380xl
20 dhs

Edited by TheArisen, 17 January 2017 - 04:32 AM.