174 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

Stefka Kerensky, on 20 April 2016 - 07:37 AM, said:

Nope, 'cause even the oxide is not a OP mech when u meet a good/top enemy that can insta-kill u with his good aiming skill.

Your definition is a bit extreme.

It is like you set the bar so far out there that no mech could possibly be as OP as your definition of OP. By doing so, you thusly set the bar beyond something any mech in MWO could ever achieve and leave a mech like the oxide that is demonstrably better than any other option out of the criteria purposely.

The issue is the structure quirks combined with crazy offensive quirks. It would not be so bad if they reduced the structure quirks. However...the oxide does need to be dialed down a bit.

The offensive quirks are fine, and can stay if some of the structure is dropped a bit. The part that makes the oxide seem P2W is the fact that no other Jenner has any structure quirks. If they would reduce the structure a tad on the oxide and give some structure to the D, F, and K models...it would be a lot better...

[Rocket2Uranus]

Not all oxides are pro pilots.
Not all jenner IIC are pro pilots.
I got a Jenner IIC and let me tell you, its not always easy getting 300+ dmg.

If anything, I agree the game needs total balance rework from weapons/mech size/mech armor/structure.
But we all know that will never happen, because PGI is busy pumping out new mechs to make $$$$

[Dirty Starfish]

Mainhunter, on 20 April 2016 - 05:26 AM, said:

If it's me, the Cicada would be the smallest Mech.

wat

[STEF_]

Gyrok, on 20 April 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

Your definition is a bit extreme.

It is like you set the bar so far out there that no mech could possibly be as OP as your definition of OP. By doing so, you thusly set the bar beyond something any mech in MWO could ever achieve and leave a mech like the oxide that is demonstrably better than any other option out of the criteria purposely.

The issue is the structure quirks combined with crazy offensive quirks. It would not be so bad if they reduced the structure quirks. However...the oxide does need to be dialed down a bit.

The offensive quirks are fine, and can stay if some of the structure is dropped a bit. The part that makes the oxide seem P2W is the fact that no other Jenner has any structure quirks. If they would reduce the structure a tad on the oxide and give some structure to the D, F, and K models...it would be a lot better...

I can agree with toned down a bit.... and also give other jenner some love too.
But my answers were about OP, saying it's pay to win, which is not, and "stupidly OP", which also is not.

He would like the oxide nerfed to the ground....making it disappear like it happened to 1N, which would be sad.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 20 April 2016 - 12:32 PM.

[Mole]

I'm not here to argue that the Oxide isn't OP, it definitely kinda is, but I am here to say that people need to stop saying that it even wins fights vs. any other light 'mech in the game. As a light pilot, that is simply not true. I do not fear getting into light duels with Oxides in any of my light 'mechs with the exception of my Adder and my Kit Fox since they behave a little more like a medium in the respect of how easy it is to hit them. Hitting another light that is moving around at full speed with unguided SRMs and doing it reliably is not that easy of a task. Where the Oxide is really OP is against targets that are large enough to hit easily and repeatedly. Heavies and assaults and some mediums just melt at its gaze. But other light 'mechs? Not so much.

Edited by Mole, 20 April 2016 - 12:37 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

Ultimax, on 20 April 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

What they should do is reduce the Missile CD and Missile heat quirks.

It's a Jenner, without JJs, so I'm fine with the extra agility and bonus structure it has - it just shouldn't also have 16+DPS while running relatively cool.

Or they can keep the high firepower, but remove the structure and agility so the mech doesn't stand up to as much firepower.





I know I'm wasting time even replying to you, but my own comp team's light pilots are the ones saying the mech needs nerfs.

Not our assaults, not our heavies, our light pilots.

This is because they are objective and not biased, like some posters...

And I am sure your comp pilots run them in packs. In packs Oxides can devastate any mech. In packs, direwolves can devastate any mechs. In packs Hunchbacks can devastate any mechs. However run solo, skill on skill, a good assault pilot will win the majority of the time. As demonstrated in multiple videos, the key problem is severe lack of sitiuational awareness. The OXIDE dies very easily when it gets in front of an assault. It is still a walking CT on legs with a whopping +11 to its CT and +8 to its ST's you folks make it sound like it got +30 to each. That is literally 2 ML's worth of extra damage it can take.

I can not argue that the OXIDE is the king of Jenners right now, it is. I can not argue that the OXIDE is not one of the preimiere lights right now, it is. However is is far from OP when you go against people who actually know how to fight it. The problem is even in Tier 1 90% of the player are so concentrated on their front, they forget they have an arse.

Give the Other Jenners some structure quirks (Which they desperately need) and you will not see so many Oxides. I still stay the Jenner D is just as good a knife fighter as the Oxide is. It just can't take an extra lick

I mean seriously 2 extra ML's worth of damage is all it can take in its torso's now.

Mole, on 20 April 2016 - 12:37 PM, said:

I'm not here to argue that the Oxide isn't OP, it definitely kinda is, but I am here to say that people need to stop saying that it even wins fights vs. any other light 'mech in the game. As a light pilot, that is simply not true. I do not fear getting into light duels with Oxides in any of my light 'mechs with the exception of my Adder and my Kit Fox since they behave a little more like a medium in the respect of how easy it is to..

Neither do I, any light mech with ML's are even SPL's can give the Oxide a run for its money. Once the range increases to 100+ meters the missiles do spread a bit and not as concentrated, under 100 though or closer, it is deadly.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 20 April 2016 - 01:41 PM.

[Ultimax]

Darian DelFord, on 20 April 2016 - 01:32 PM, said:

And I am sure your comp pilots run them in packs. In packs Oxides can devastate any mech. In packs, direwolves can devastate any mechs. In packs Hunchbacks can devastate any mechs. However run solo, skill on skill, a good assault pilot will win the majority of the time.

No dude, they aren't judging it on "packs" or whatever other arbitrary thing you want to come up with.

They are judging it on 1v1s vs. other light builds.

They are judging based on internal scrims where one side uses oxides and the other doesn't.

They are judging based on internal scrims where both sides have the exact same 8 mechs including 2 oxides per side and clan streak boats.

They are judging it from PUG queue play and from comp matches.


It has nothing to do with lack of situational awareness in the solo PUG queue - we know very clearly where the enemy is coming from in a Frozen City lower tonnage deck brawl match.


It has to do with this 35 ton mech having higher DPS than many heavies and assaults, while also being smaller, harder to hit with exceptional agility quirks, structure and also really exceptional heat management.

It is regularly out-damaging most other mechs in our comp matches - often scoring 500-600+ damage when there are only 8 targets available.


Your video-smoke screen means nothing in the face of an entire season of MRBC consistently showing Oxides way above margin not only for lights but even compared to heavier classes - and this is across many matches by many teams in multiple divisons.

They are simply over-performing, but feel free to stick your head in the sand and try to pretend they are fine.

Edited by Ultimax, 20 April 2016 - 02:04 PM.

[Astrocanis]

Ultimax, on 19 April 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:

To be honest, I find 4x SRM 4s (34 damage alpha) on 2.04s CD while running relatively cool to be a bit too much.

That's nearly 16 DPS.

How many 500 and 600+ damage games in 8v8 MRBC matches where the Oxide is an auto-include do we need to see before it's clear there is an issue?

It doesn't need to be nerfed into the ground, just toned down a bit so other light mechs have at least a remote chance of going 1v1 vs. it and not getting outright obliterated unless the Oxide pilot is incompetent.

The same argument was made with the machine-gun-srm4 huginn.

[Astrocanis]

Darian DelFord, on 19 April 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

Yes yet another OMG THE OXIDE IS OP IT NEED MORE NERF!!!!!

Please, why don't you assaults and heavies learn Situational Awareness on your mechs. I went 180 rounds of ammo tearing up T1's and T2's and not ONE person turned to engage me until I got into their field of view

I do agree that the other Jenners need the strcuture buffs and I do not understand why only the OXIDE gets them, but for the moment thats how it is. The OXIDE is a solid mech and lights should be a threat if left unchecked. You will notice every time I SCREWED UP and got in front of an assault I paid for it. They are easily taken out.

Well, I'm sure you speak for everyone. Oxides are as OP as Huginns were. Unfortunately, they nerfed the living sh!t out of the Huginn. I hope they don't do that with the Oxide, but it's too survivable for its damage output. And it's damage output over a 5 second window is too high. Lights should NOT be able to outgun and outsurvive assaults. Or mediums, for that matter. They should be ankle biters that are useful, but not OP.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Stefka Kerensky, on 19 April 2016 - 10:58 PM, said:

OK, I rolfed about "mwo p2w", but now I must explain that....

Do u wanna know how much money I spent for my oxide?
Zero real money.
During last christmas sale, I managed to buy 3 (Three) hero mechs, all with ZERO real money.
Oxide, grind iron, Top dog, using MC gained thanks to CW and all MC pgi had given away.

So, writing "mwo p2w" is rather stupid, dumb, idiotic since everybody can buy hero mechs for free.

Also saying hero mechs OP, is, again, stupid, dumb, idiotic rolf.

o/

Alright since you want to go there, two can play this game...

Claiming that because anyone can have one makes it perfectly ok to have OP mechs in the game, mechs behind a paywall for new players who aren't tryhard nolifers like yourself, is again, stupid, dumb, idiotic, rofl.

o/

[Ultimax]

Astrocanis, on 20 April 2016 - 02:22 PM, said:

The same argument was made with the machine-gun-srm4 huginn.

The Huginn only had 2 hardpoints and therefore a lower alpha - you weren't hitting things with 2x 34 points of damage 2s apart and it has (IMO) worse hitboxes.

I don't remember its other quirks, but I'm pretty sure it didn't have nearly the total package of agility, structure and firepower quirks that the Oxide has. It's not even close.

The Huginn was annoying, but it wasn't nearly as dominant.

[Darian DelFord]

Ultimax, on 20 April 2016 - 02:02 PM, said:

No dude, they aren't judging it on "packs" or whatever other arbitrary thing you want to come up with.

They are judging it on 1v1s vs. other light builds.

They are judging based on internal scrims where one side uses oxides and the other doesn't.

They are judging based on internal scrims where both sides have the exact same 8 mechs including 2 oxides per side and clan streak boats.

They are judging it from PUG queue play and from comp matches.


It has nothing to do with lack of situational awareness in the solo PUG queue - we know very clearly where the enemy is coming from in a Frozen City lower tonnage deck brawl match.


It has to do with this 35 ton mech having higher DPS than many heavies and assaults, while also being smaller, harder to hit with exceptional agility quirks, structure and also really exceptional heat management.

It is regularly out-damaging most other mechs in our comp matches - often scoring 500-600+ damage when there are only 8 targets available.


Your video-smoke screen means nothing in the face of an entire season of MRBC consistently showing Oxides way above margin not only for lights but even compared to heavier classes - and this is across many matches by many teams in multiple divisons.

They are simply over-performing, but feel free to stick your head in the sand and try to pretend they are fine.

Well are they being targeted or ignored then?

To me if they are doing what you say, they should be some of the first to die. The problem with comp play (And I comp to) is simple, most light are ignored in favor of larger targets. That is not a mech problem that is a drop caller problem. I can not tell you how many folks will state "Don't fire on the light hit the DW" in drop calling. That is not a mech issue I am sorry.

And I don't care how OP or UP you think they are, streak boats absolutely **** Oxides.

[Ultimax]

Darian DelFord, on 20 April 2016 - 03:34 PM, said:

Well are they being targeted or ignored then?

To me if they are doing what you say, they should be some of the first to die. The problem with comp play (And I comp to) is simple, most light are ignored in favor of larger targets. That is not a mech problem that is a drop caller problem. I can not tell you how many folks will state "Don't fire on the light hit the DW" in drop calling. That is not a mech issue I am sorry.

And I don't care how OP or UP you think they are, streak boats absolutely **** Oxides.

1) Yes, they are one of the highest priority threats.
2) #1 tells you they are clearly over performing. When your entire team needs to make sure to focus Oxides above all other targets outside of maybe an Atlas already in your faces - that means there is a clear balance issue.


If you ignore them, there's a chance it can cost you a match.

We don't even prioritize Black Knights that heavily (Maulers, maybe).


There is a problem with this mech, it doesn't need to be nerfed into the ground - it needs to be toned down though.

Edited by Ultimax, 20 April 2016 - 03:54 PM.

[White Bear 84]

Stefka Kerensky, on 19 April 2016 - 09:38 AM, said:

Rolf.

Thanks to you, buddy.

I need to laugh

[Darian DelFord]

Ultimax, on 20 April 2016 - 03:53 PM, said:

1) Yes, they are one of the highest priority threats.
2) #1 tells you they are clearly over performing. When your entire team needs to make sure to focus Oxides above all other targets outside of maybe an Atlas already in your faces - that means there is a clear balance issue.


If you ignore them, there's a chance it can cost you a match.

We don't even prioritize Black Knights that heavily (Maulers, maybe).


There is a problem with this mech, it doesn't need to be nerfed into the ground - it needs to be toned down though.

LOL

4v4 just blew this whole thread out of the water.

Damn splat crows and streak crows making me butt hurt

Edited by Darian DelFord, 20 April 2016 - 04:23 PM.

[1453 R]

Hm.

I see a lot of folks saying "We don't want to nerf it into the grave, we just want to tone it down." When asked how they want it toned down, ideally, the answer seems to be...:

"Rip out the structure quirks, give them to other Jenners instead, cut the heat quirks so it overheats like a sumbeetch, and see if we can't crank back the recycle quirks too, because a light 'Mech should always have utterly p!ss-poor DPS."

That...sort of sounds like nerfing it into the grave to me.

Now I get it, I'm a useless non-comp scrublord...but I also believe the game is honestly better off when lights and mediums can...y'know, actually fight. I know a lot of somewhat silly players and even a few ultracomps who believe that anything less than 70 tons should mostly just shrivel up and die in front of anything 70 tons or up, since they're "Scouts", "Harassers", or other words for "Things that can't fight properly without three-to-one odds and prior enemy damage." It's kind of stupid, really. I can never understand why so few players want the lighter classes to be completely defanged while only ever paying lip service to the idea of "I don't want it VTR_style Giganerfed, I just want it toned down."

They 'toned down' the Huginn. How many of them do you see these days? Piranha has been handing light 'Mechs enormous structure quirks like they were Halloween candy for a long time now; if the Oxide is as overperforming as all that, then investigate it, yes. But don't be a doucheknuckle and tell people you want it 'toned down'. 'Toned down' means trimming up the structure quirks a bit without culling them completely, possibly damping the heat gen a bit.

What most folks in this thread seem to be asking is for Piranha to flay the 'Mech alive, instead. Isn't that just a little ridiculous?

[Ultimax]

1453 R, on 20 April 2016 - 04:23 PM, said:

Hm.

I see a lot of folks saying "We don't want to nerf it into the grave, we just want to tone it down." When asked how they want it toned down, ideally, the answer seems to be...:

"Rip out the structure quirks, give them to other Jenners instead, cut the heat quirks so it overheats like a sumbeetch, and see if we can't crank back the recycle quirks too, because a light 'Mech should always have utterly p!ss-poor DPS."

That...sort of sounds like nerfing it into the grave to me.

Really? Who said that?

Do you have a quote?


This is what I said, in this very thread:

Ultimax, on 20 April 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

What they should do is reduce the Missile CD and Missile heat quirks.

It's a Jenner, without JJs, so I'm fine with the extra agility and bonus structure it has - it just shouldn't also have 16+DPS while running relatively cool.

Or they can keep the high firepower, but remove the structure and agility so the mech doesn't stand up to as much firepower.

Pretty clear there, one or the other - not tone down both.

[1453 R]

Which is well and good, and certainly true, but you have to admit - the majority of opinions from many others in this thread run far closer to frothing-mouthed rabidity than they do to something like mild adjustments to try and bring the 'Mech into line. Most of them backed by the dubious logic of "no light 'Mech should be as dangerous as a heavy or assault 'Mech!"

Which is incorrect. A combat light 'Mech should be exactly as dangerous as a heavy or assault 'Mech - ideally, it's simply dangerous in a different way. Elsewise the lighter classes really are nothing but newbie traps and taxes on one's dropdecks if one bothers to play dropdeck modes. Is that what we honestly want lights and mediums to be?

[Sorbic]

"it is a genuine P2W mech" heh must be why I don't mind seeing them coming and see far, far more IIc's... I don't have one but really don't have any more issue with them than cheetahs and prefer fighting them over the IIc splat bot. A slap on the wrist was all it needed although I'm not sure the torso twist nerf is even that.

[STEF_]

A banana in the tailpipe, on 20 April 2016 - 03:18 PM, said:

Alright since you want to go there, two can play this game...

Claiming that because anyone can have one makes it perfectly ok to have OP mechs in the game, mechs behind a paywall for new players who aren't tryhard nolifers like yourself, is again, stupid, dumb, idiotic, rofl.

o/

New players must grind, since this game is all about grind, but of course a banana from 2012 could not understand that yet!!!....what else?

Of course you cannot answer to the fact that I stated Oxide is not OP, since every player with a minimum aim skill (not u, it seems) can insta shot it.
But, what else could we expect from a banana?

What else? Must I rewrite the same post over and over because u cannot read, or u refuse to understand?, right, banana?