174 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

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Yep, it totally has the same DPS as an Atlas..

Umm theres different variants of the Atlas you know. I wasnt using the Atlas-S in my comparison

So yes the Oxide does DPS that rivals certain variants of assault mechs

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So what's a proper alpha and dps for a Light?

less than what an oxide does, thats for sure.


commando for president 2016 make mechwarrior great again

Edited by Khobai, 21 April 2016 - 10:22 AM.

[Crockdaddy]

Ultimax, on 19 April 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:

To be honest, I find 4x SRM 4s (34 damage alpha) on 2.04s CD while running relatively cool to be a bit too much.

That's nearly 16 DPS.

How many 500 and 600+ damage games in 8v8 MRBC matches where the Oxide is an auto-include do we need to see before it's clear there is an issue?

It doesn't need to be nerfed into the ground, just toned down a bit so other light mechs have at least a remote chance of going 1v1 vs. it and not getting outright obliterated unless the Oxide pilot is incompetent.

A tone down would be fine, but usually its the #@$%&SDF Nerf Bat once a particular mech gets noticed by PGI. The Victors and Cataphracts 3D are still paying the price for being OP two years ago.

The Jenner II C are not much different from the Oxide. So I guess its a double nerf then?

PSA, Oxides do die if you shoot them and don't let them sneak in behind you. But I would agree with an additional mild nerf for balance.

[man du]

QuantumButler, on 21 April 2016 - 07:54 AM, said:

I own an Oxide, and it is pretty much the easiest mech to do well with in the entire game, I play it when I don't feel like having to think, I can just blindly run in and get 300+ damage and a kill or five while playing like an idiot no problem.

So yes it is completely fair and balanced, doesn't need any changes at all PGI, nothing to see here.

The Oxide is not a win button. It is a lmaowtfbbqpwn win button. I own one and as a primarily Light pilot, these things are hilarious! I echo QuantumButler's post in that I need to put forth next to no effort do extremely well in this 'Mech.

I think the additional structure was put there to handle all the carrying this 'Mech does.

[Ultimax]

Crockdaddy, on 21 April 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

A tone down would be fine, but usually its the #@$%&SDF Nerf Bat once a particular mech gets noticed by PGI. The Victors and Cataphracts 3D are still paying the price for being OP two years ago.

The Jenner II C are not much different from the Oxide. So I guess its a double nerf then?

I agree I don't want them nerfed into the ground, they should remain a competitive option.



The IIC is physically larger in model vs. the Oxide
it doesn't have accel/decel quirks (which make for some really hard to deal with peek-a-boo strikes from behind terrain)
It doesn't have the structure quirks
It doesn't have the same DPS with 4x SRM 4s

The Jenner IIC is a good, strong option - but it's not over the top.

Basically the Oxide should be toned down to be relatively even vs. the Jenner IIC - personally, I would reduce/remove the missile CD quirk and then leave it be.

I'm OK with it's structure quirks, and agility quirks - but it shouldn't also be capable of 16ish DPS (34 point alpha every 2s) AND also absorb so much fire.

[Rampancy]

Ultimax, on 21 April 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

Pretty sure you are in your own world here on this, the Oxide straight up destroys pretty much every other brawling light in the game.

I mean the cSPL ACH has 14.4 pinpoint, hitscan DPS that never runs out of ammo with better hitboxes and cXL, along with tremendous JJ capability... but hey that's totally fine, right?

The Oxide is still a Jenner. It's hard to leg, but its torsos still pop plenty easily.

[Darian DelFord]

CD LoreHammer Lord, on 21 April 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

I noticed the Oxide is doing a pretty good job of dominating Scouting missions.... Had to completely reconfigure one of my mediums to counter the little ******** too...

Video please? Last 10 or so matches has been Streak Crow, Splat Crow, Cheetah and a Laser AC20 crow

I am sorry but 4v4 scout is showing just how UP the lights are when the mediums actually do their job and hunt the lights. Instead they want to arm themselves for heavy and Assault snipe warfare.

I am sorry but I stated pure scouting yesterday and slowly but surely the lights became rarer and rarer, Now its nothing but a medium slug fest. I am not even brining my Jenners anymore, They don't last. 2 shots from a crow and I am tast.

Khobai, on 21 April 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

Umm theres different variants of the Atlas you know. I wasnt using the Atlas-S in my comparison

So yes the Oxide does DPS that rivals certain variants of assault mechs

With none of the armor or strcuture quirks. I do not mess with atlai anymore. They are to damned buffed for me. Takes almost half my ammo to kill one and that is IF all missiles hit and register.

I am sorry but once again, skill on skill an atlas wipes the floor with an Oxide. I am sorry if most assault pilots get tunnel vision and or get left behind in the open by their team.

Ultimax, on 21 April 2016 - 11:37 AM, said:

I'm OK with it's structure quirks, and agility quirks - but it shouldn't also be capable of 16ish DPS (34 point alpha every 2s) AND also absorb so much fire.

So much fire? really it has a +11 to its CT (Which is a GIANT MAGNET) and +8 to the ST's. Seriously so much fire? That is an extra 2 Medium lasers worth or 1 SRM 6, or 1 LPL.

So much fire, seriously?

Edited by Darian DelFord, 21 April 2016 - 11:45 AM.

[Rhaythe]

I see the "Lights are sooooo OP" train is still chugging away strong. Chugga chugga chugga.

[CDLord HHGD]

Darian DelFord, on 21 April 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

Video please? Last 10 or so matches has been Streak Crow, Splat Crow, Cheetah and a Laser AC20 crow

Oh, I'm not fighting on the Clan front......

[Darian DelFord]

CD LoreHammer Lord, on 21 April 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

I noticed the Oxide is doing a pretty good job of dominating Scouting missions.... Had to completely reconfigure one of my mediums to counter the little ******** too...

CD LoreHammer Lord, on 21 April 2016 - 12:18 PM, said:

Oh, I'm not fighting on the Clan front......

Ok, Clan or IS, all I want to see are video's of OXIDES "Dominating" scouting missions. Every IS light mech I have seen has been obliterated.including the OXIDE.

It tends to happen when you have medium mechs which actually hunt lights instead of arming themselves to fight heavies and assaults.

[CDLord HHGD]

Darian DelFord, on 21 April 2016 - 12:23 PM, said:

Ok, Clan or IS, all I want to see are video's of OXIDES "Dominating" scouting missions. Every IS light mech I have seen has been obliterated.including the OXIDE.

It tends to happen when you have medium mechs which actually hunt lights instead of arming themselves to fight heavies and assaults.

I'd get you a video or two but my configuration can't handle it (I have a small SSD running my OS and even though I set the data recording to my secondary 2TB drive, I have yet to find one that doesn't "ghost" cache it on the C: first.... Grrrrr....

I am currently testing two GRN-2N builds to counter the little buggers and seems to be doing fairly well. But most of my Scouting matches last night had at least two Oxides and some had all Oxides.

[QuantumButler]

Darian DelFord, on 21 April 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

ROFL, go against people who know how to aim then. I am sorry but if I play like an idiot in a Oxide and just "stroll" in I get cremated, try another example. Better yet show a vid of you getting 5 kills just blindly going in.

This is the solo Q, no one knows how to aim.

Look, I'm not saying I'm super elite, I'm actually pretty **** at this game, Oxide is just THE easiest mech in the game for me, at least.

Do I die super fast when I play like a ******? Yes, but the Oxide is so powerful I can easily live long enough to shoot a few times while being an idiot.

Other mechs punish you for that, the Oxide rewards stupidity.

I don't bring it in group drops usually.

Otherwise, learn what hyperbole means, please.

Edited by QuantumButler, 21 April 2016 - 01:12 PM.

[The Mech behind you]

Uh I played many different lights the last days. Including all Jenners today. And I don't see why the Oxide is considered so much better than any other light. Actually I had similar performances in Locusts, Commandos, Ravens, Firestartes or even other Jenners. No one cares if anyone's doing a 1000 dmg match in any other light. But as soon as it's an Oxide everyone's mad.

Yes, the Oxide is better suited to fight bigger mechs because of SRMs but I don't see how any SRM light is a threat to a laser light. Except all of you run SPLs on your lights maybe. Because you have to get waaay to close to those SRMs to deal damage and that's where the SRMs will kill you. Any decent light pilot knows how to avoid SRMs. Don't stand still, don't move in straight lines and in case you equipped MLs or MPLs just stay away at least 150m from that SRM spammer. Heck, an ML light could even stay out of the SRMs range completely and still deal a good amount of damage to the Oxide. If I lose a fight vs. an Oxide or any other SRM light in any of my laser lights it's because I failed hard.

And if an Oxide or any other light gets behind a bigger mech undetected then something went very wrong there in the first place. And at that point it doesn't matter anymore if it's an Oxide, MPL or ML Jenner. The bigger guy is screwed.

The Oxide isn't even the most popular light. All I see are ACHs and Cicadas. (yeah I know technically not a light)

And lights aren't the best class. They're the least favorite (because weakest) class. Everyone can see that in the queue numbers.

[CDLord HHGD]

The Mech behind you, on 21 April 2016 - 01:15 PM, said:

Uh I played many different lights the last days. Including all Jenners today. And I don't see why the Oxide is considered so much better than any other light. Actually I had similar performances in Locusts, Commandos, Ravens, Firestartes or even other Jenners. No one cares if anyone's doing a 1000 dmg match in any other light. But as soon as it's an Oxide everyone's mad.

Yes, the Oxide is better suited to fight bigger mechs because of SRMs but I don't see how any SRM light is a threat to a laser light. Except all of you run SPLs on your lights maybe. Because you have to get waaay to close to those SRMs to deal damage and that's where the SRMs will kill you. Any decent light pilot knows how to avoid SRMs. Don't stand still, don't move in straight lines and in case you equipped MLs or MPLs just stay away at least 150m from that SRM spammer. Heck, an ML light could even stay out of the SRMs range completely and still deal a good amount of damage to the Oxide. If I lose a fight vs. an Oxide or any other SRM light in any of my laser lights it's because I failed hard.

And if an Oxide or any other light gets behind a bigger mech undetected then something went very wrong there in the first place. And at that point it doesn't matter anymore if it's an Oxide, MPL or ML Jenner. The bigger guy is screwed.

The Oxide isn't even the most popular light. All I see are ACHs and Cicadas. (yeah I know technically not a light)

And lights aren't the best class. They're the least favorite (because weakest) class. Everyone can see that in the queue numbers.

Faced a quartet of Cicada's last night, wiped them easily. One even had a GR O.o.

[Ultimax]

RampancyTW, on 21 April 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

I mean the cSPL ACH has 14.4 pinpoint, hitscan DPS that never runs out of ammo with better hitboxes and cXL, along with tremendous JJ capability... but hey that's totally fine, right?

1) It has shorter range.
2) It has much worse heat management, it's not even remotely close.
3) It's arms pop off like twigs.

Darian DelFord, on 21 April 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

So much fire? really it has a +11 to its CT (Which is a GIANT MAGNET) and +8 to the ST's. Seriously so much fire? That is an extra 2 Medium lasers worth or 1 SRM 6, or 1 LPL.

So much fire, seriously?

You know it can like, move right?

It's a compound effect.

Structure (all over the entire mech) + Accel/Decel + Turn Rate Quirk + Being a small target, 139kph.

On top of all of that, it's most likely putting out higher DPS than the vast majority of mechs shooting at it.


So yes, they take quite a bit of fire compared to other light mechs.


You're spending so much time defending this mech when it's pretty unanimously considered overpowered by most comp players.


The only thing it really needs is the Missile CD quirk removed.

That's it, everything else can stay.

Edited by Ultimax, 21 April 2016 - 01:45 PM.

[DrxAbstract]

Khobai, on 21 April 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

Umm theres different variants of the Atlas you know. I wasnt using the Atlas-S in my comparison

Indeed, you were conveniently referencing Atlas variants and builds nobody uses with frequency (Which has nothing to do with the Oxide). The AS7-S and D-DC are the two most popular, both having higher DPS than an Oxide by a fair margin and double its Alpha power. What you did is like comparing a JR7-D or F variant to an AS7-S but in reverse; Nobody plays D or F as regularly and they are not considered the better or best Jenner variants - The Oxide is.

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So yes the Oxide does DPS that rivals certain variants of assault mechs

less than what an oxide does, thats for sure.

Sure, Assaults with bad builds, Assaults loaded out for total Alpha damage as opposed to straight DPS and Assaults people don't really play... Again, for reasons having nothing to do with Oxides. DPS =/= High Alpha.

It has an average alpha for a combat Light that requires extremely close maneuvering, is imprecise and ammo-dependent. It doesnt have JJs or ECM. It's very good at capitalizing on people's mistakes, just as the primary variants of FS9s, ACHs and even LCTs are. They're specified combat Lights, it's what they do. They dont do it faster than other, heavier Mechs, indeed noticeably slower depending on how good they are, their target is and what Mech they're dealing with... I suspect this has a lot more to do with people just not liking getting killed by something they deeply feel is inferior to them and take whatever nonsensical steps they can to ensure these ridiculous, impudent Lights are made to be exactly that.

I kill Oxides in my FS9s and Locusts, so from my perspective this is entirely an attempt at requesting the game be made easier to accommodate personal shortcomings and has been mirrored ad nauseam every time a Light manages to set itself apart and rise from a mucky stigmatic swamp of the belief that Lights should be largely ineffectual and inferior to every other weight class including their own.

At the end of the day bad players will still die to better ones entirely absent of relevance as to which Mechs were used. People chose the Oxide and Jenner IIC this time around, despite the fact an Arctic Cheetah and even a Spider are harder to kill, that a Locust and Firestarter will kill them much faster, etc. Always complaining about something for the most minuscule of reasons using shoddy arguments and rationale. Le sigh.

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commando for president 2016 make mechwarrior great again

Locust master race.

Ultimax, on 21 April 2016 - 01:40 PM, said:

It's a compound effect.

Structure (all over the entire mech) + Accel/Decel + Turn Rate Quirk + Being a small target, 139kph.

On top of all of that, it's most likely putting out higher DPS than the vast majority of mechs shooting at it.

I agree the effect is compounded in terms of its survivability, but is it really so much harder to kill than any other Light? No. It's actually quite a bit easier to kill anyway largely due to the huge CT and that it's not a small target compared to ACH, Spider or Locust.

It does have a relatively high DPS compared to other Mechs, but DPS is a bit tricky in that, like all damage, it's not being utilized unless you're actually firing... Not only firing, but firing off cooldown and hitting every shot with every missile exactly where they want it to go. It's not precise damage unless they're within 70 meters and it's still not that accurate... Which balances things out quite well. Other Lights can and do kill you faster.

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You're spending so much time defending this mech when it's pretty unanimously considered overpowered by most comp players.

Wouldnt those be the same players responsible for the botched 'Tier' system used to ruin the original Quirk implementation? Yes, yes they would be. Just because they're competitive doesnt make them the most intelligent or qualified persons to discuss anything, nor their opinions matter. That people think it does is the same thought process behind Lights not being allowed to be 'good'.

Edited by DrxAbstract, 21 April 2016 - 10:36 PM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

problem with the oxide and IIC is that they rely on SRMs....and pgis hit reg is abominable.

The IIC is probably midly more overpowred, that 35 tonner that can one shot any mech and do it more than once in a game.

[dervishx5]

When are they going to nerf the Raven 3L streakboat? Those damn things are impossible to hit and the streaks only hit the CT.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

dervishx5, on 21 April 2016 - 11:25 PM, said:

When are they going to nerf the Raven 3L streakboat? Those damn things are impossible to hit and the streaks only hit the CT.

The 3L needs to lose a leg, thing is OP

[Chuck Jager]

The Oxide is running real well in 4v4 because of the quick engagement and fewer players to shoot you up. The 4man drops can make real use of them if they are balanced w 55tonners.

because there are many faster mechs the hit scan lasers are not as good, but we are in the entry level phase so more to come.

[TwentyOne]

dervishx5, on 21 April 2016 - 11:25 PM, said:

When are they going to nerf the Raven 3L streakboat? Those damn things are impossible to hit and the streaks only hit the CT.

and in 2013 the tryhard raven pilots were still kicking and screaming for the raven to never be nerfed. Now its decent but not silly OP, and another OP light comes up and this one isn't allowed to be nerfed?