129 replies to this topic

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

So after hearing some people talk about bringing an SRM griffin to kill SRM stormcrows I decided to compare them for myself....

Griffin

Quote

STD:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7807f5fb269ff95

XL:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d018845f3597f5c

Can fire every 3.12 seconds...(if you use a quirked chassis and module)
Alpha of 51
DPS of 16 (if you use a quirked chassis and module)
Speed 76 / 92
Heat 50%
Has JJ

Stormcrow

Quote

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d062e74cd07de4b

Can fire every 3.53 seconds (if you use a module)
Alpha of 60
DPS of 17 (if you use a module)
Speed 97
Heat 58%
Can use arms to aim up and down at JJ griffin

The stormcrow appears to be a better SRM boat in every single possible way.

You either run STD to match the stormcrow in ability to not die....

Or XL and still aren't as fast....AND a single alpha to the torso from the stormcrow virtually kills you.

What am I doing wrong, if these things are supposed to be balanced?

Edited by Ex Atlas Overlord, 21 April 2016 - 12:34 AM.

[Deathlike]

You are totally ignoring Ghost Heat.

That's par for the course.

[Karl Streiger]

The main issue is that the Stormcrow is vanilla. In 3050 there is simple not a single IS Medium that can compete with a Stormcrow not even in TT.
When the Crow knows what he does he will scrap you every time.

Afar from this - ECM won't help you much at SRM range:
GRF-2N same spread as the ASRM6 - better heat control

maybe sparky would be the better choice

Edited by Karl Streiger, 21 April 2016 - 12:28 AM.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Deathlike, on 21 April 2016 - 12:24 AM, said:

You are totally ignoring Ghost Heat.

That's par for the course.

So the storm crow can't fire a volley of 4...followed by the fifth SRM .5 seconds later?

Edited by Ex Atlas Overlord, 21 April 2016 - 12:27 AM.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Karl Streiger, on 21 April 2016 - 12:24 AM, said:

Afar from this - ECM won't help you much at SRM range:
GRF-2N same spread as the ASRM6 - better heat control

1) I know the ecm won't help, but it just felt wrong not putting it on there

2) The stormcrow could just as easily use SRM4's and we're right back to the same conversation....right?

[Karl Streiger]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 21 April 2016 - 12:29 AM, said:

2) The stormcrow could just as easily use SRM4's and we're right back to the same conversation....right?

its squaring of a circle to find an IS Mech (Medium) that go 1 on 1 with a StormCrow and stay victorious.

The crow is faster, thougher and better armed. In TT i would try the Nightsky, Wraith, Anvil but well mechanics work different. (not to mention that Anvil is a heavy)

On smurfy lots of griffins seem to sport flammers... maybe a good idea

Edited by Karl Streiger, 21 April 2016 - 12:36 AM.

[DovisKhan]

You're not doing anything wrong, Clans are much better the lower the weight range, while the're equal at the 70 and + category, they're superior in anything below that.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Karl Streiger, on 21 April 2016 - 12:35 AM, said:

its squaring of a circle to find an IS Mech (Medium) that go 1 on 1 with a StormCrow and stay victorious.

The crow is faster, thougher and better armed.

Karl Streiger, on 21 April 2016 - 12:24 AM, said:

In 3050 there is simple not a single IS Medium that can compete with a Stormcrow not even in TT.

When the Crow knows what he does he will scrap you every time.

DovisKhan, on 21 April 2016 - 12:37 AM, said:

You're not doing anything wrong, Clans are much better the lower the weight range, while the're equal at the 70 and + category, they're superior in anything below that.

So they are just flat out better?

I was under the impression PGI had balanced clan tech (I'm not a light or medium pilot so I had just assumed it applied to those weight classes as well)?

Edited by Ex Atlas Overlord, 21 April 2016 - 12:38 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 21 April 2016 - 12:37 AM, said:

So they are just flat out better?

I was under the impression PGI had balanced clan tech?

overall it is but simple because 90% of Clan Omnis suck. Neither StormCrow nor TimberWolf are balanced. They are at the very top of the food chain. (not because PGI wanted it - its because they are since 1990)

Go out find somebody that knows battletech but maybe not MWO - ask him wich is the best clan Mech and i bet he mentions both.


Issue with all those UberQuirks in the past - for example the Daka or WubVerine would have been able to go 1 on 1 on Stromcrow - issue they were blatant better than anything else. Quirk Nerfs for Vanilla Omnis existed for a reason

Edited by Karl Streiger, 21 April 2016 - 12:41 AM.

[DovisKhan]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 21 April 2016 - 12:37 AM, said:

So they are just flat out better?

I was under the impression PGI had balanced clan tech (I'm not a light or medium pilot so I had just assumed it applied to those weight classes as well)?

Yes they are flat out better in low weight categories, they were balanced in december when lights had considerable quirks, now it's not a competition,

Arctic Cheetah will kill any IS Light mech

Storm Crow will kill any IS medium mech


Some clan mechs are bad, but if we're comparing top tier IS and Clan, clan is flat out better in low weight range

[John1352]

1v1 a SPL Firestarter outperforms a SPL Cheetah. Cheetah is more valuable in ordinary matches due to ECM and range, but those are less important in light 4v4.

The oxide is currently very powerful too.

The Stormcrow's upper body has amazing hitboxes, but the legs can be focused easily. If you watch some MRBC drop 1 matches, you'll see Stormcrows dying in seconds as soon as the engagement starts.

[Lily from animove]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 21 April 2016 - 12:19 AM, said:

So after hearing some people talk about bringing an SRM griffin to kill SRM stormcrows I decided to compare them for myself....

Griffin


Stormcrow


The stormcrow appears to be a better SRM boat in every single possible way.

You either run STD to match the stormcrow in ability to not die....

Or XL and still aren't as fast....AND a single alpha to the torso from the stormcrow virtually kills you.

What am I doing wrong, if these things are supposed to be balanced?

grifin has shield arms, SCR not. if SCR loses an arm in your example cooling and firepower reduces.

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 21 April 2016 - 12:26 AM, said:

So the storm crow can't fire a volley of 4...followed by the fifth SRM .5 seconds later?

what for? hitting his shieldarms and wasting heat on spreading to irrelevant components?

Also why would you in such a battle even make such a griffin? your griffign can go faster and so you will eb able to stay out of srm range. a proper 1N can chalalnge the Crow and kill it. But as long as weird IS pilots try to copy Clanbuilds and challange them the same way the clanner is palyed yes you fail in 1on1's. If you want to win you need to see what advanategs you can get in your build over the other build, and THEN you use that.

Edited by Lily from animove, 21 April 2016 - 01:11 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 21 April 2016 - 12:37 AM, said:

So they are just flat out better?

I was under the impression PGI had balanced clan tech (I'm not a light or medium pilot so I had just assumed it applied to those weight classes as well)?

Not really, no. He's highly misinformed.

IS has the best of the best, but Clams aren't exactly struggling. Oxide and Black Knight at the top, with Cheetah and Timby by no means being bad.

Meds, Clams do have nice choices, as does the Sphere. Haven't used the Griffins, but I hear they're good. Don't have the hitboxes of the Crow, but have 13 structure to most components, meaning another Alpha for the Crow.

Spread difference is a Meter overall(well, 0.66M with Art), and the damage is marginal. Convergence is superior on the Griffin though, making the overall spread smaller (while the Crow is arm to arm)


Personally, I prefer the Nova. It gets multitudes of Structure quirks, with minor heat quirks. Still gigantic, but small lasers are also still nice.


Also, don't strip Crow legs.
Those are ideal targets.

[DovisKhan]

John1352, on 21 April 2016 - 12:53 AM, said:

1v1 a SPL Firestarter outperforms a SPL Cheetah. Cheetah is more valuable in ordinary matches due to ECM and range, but those are less important in light 4v4.

The oxide is currently very powerful too.

The Stormcrow's upper body has amazing hitboxes, but the legs can be focused easily. If you watch some MRBC drop 1 matches, you'll see Stormcrows dying in seconds as soon as the engagement starts.

Outperforms in what way exactly

Firestarter has 30% less speed, has 50% less range and 15% less damage, and since it has no structure quirks it's not more durable, it also has a slightly larger frame and heat efficiency is similar

Edited by DovisKhan, 21 April 2016 - 01:33 AM.

[Mcgral18]

DovisKhan, on 21 April 2016 - 01:32 AM, said:

Outperforms in what way exactly

Firestarter has 30% less speed, has 50% less range and 15% less damage, and since it has no structure quirks it's not more durable, it also has a slightly larger frame and heat efficiency is similar

The same speed, yes range, 32 damage for 16 heat (36 damage for 18 heat)
Half second burn time to the 3/4s of the Cheetah.
More armour and structure, but that's marginal. Cheetah has worse cooling due to the PoorDub, and HoverJets™ (6 make more heat than 1-3)

Now, use the Oxide

[DovisKhan]

Mcgral18, on 21 April 2016 - 01:29 AM, said:

Not really, no. He's highly misinformed.

IS has the best of the best, but Clams aren't exactly struggling. Oxide and Black Knight at the top, with Cheetah and Timby by no means being bad.

Meds, Clams do have nice choices, as does the Sphere. Haven't used the Griffins, but I hear they're good. Don't have the hitboxes of the Crow, but have 13 structure to most components, meaning another Alpha for the Crow.

Spread difference is a Meter overall(well, 0.66M with Art), and the damage is marginal. Convergence is superior on the Griffin though, making the overall spread smaller (while the Crow is arm to arm)


Personally, I prefer the Nova. It gets multitudes of Structure quirks, with minor heat quirks. Still gigantic, but small lasers are also still nice.


Also, don't strip Crow legs.
Those are ideal targets.

When you say IS have best of the best and call others misinformed it would help your cause to point out those best of the best

Oxide is great, but it's on par with Jenner IIC, while Cheetah is still better than both


Black Knight is good as laser vomit, but it's slower, has no JJ and doesn't have the options to pack SRMs like timber, making it worse in all except for one thing - laser vomit exchange

[DovisKhan]

Mcgral18, on 21 April 2016 - 01:37 AM, said:

The same speed, yes range, 32 damage for 16 heat (36 damage for 18 heat)
Half second burn time to the 3/4s of the Cheetah.
More armour and structure, but that's marginal. Cheetah has worse cooling due to the PoorDub, and HoverJets™ (6 make more heat than 1-3)

Now, use the Oxide

Same speed implies IS XL, that right there makes it much more squishy

50% more range means you get one alpha off before the Firestarter does, now if you're accurate 1 Alpha decides between who wins and who loses

Slightly more structure, max 66 vs max 60 makes little difference since in case both are equally accurate, it takes them both 2 Alphas to CT to drop the other guy


Clan heatsinks has lower heatbase, but more dissipation



Though I'd still pick Clan Small lasers, then you would have very good energy efficiency and twice the range


Or hell, Med pulses, with 3x the range and ~same damage, you'd get off 2 Alphas almost killing the guy before he even does some damage

Edited by DovisKhan, 21 April 2016 - 01:49 AM.

[Mcgral18]

DovisKhan, on 21 April 2016 - 01:37 AM, said:

When you say IS have best of the best and call others misinformed it would help your cause to point out those best of the best

Oxide is great, but it's on par with Jenner IIC, while Cheetah is still better than both


Black Knight is good as laser vomit, but it's slower, has no JJ and doesn't have the options to pack SRMs like timber, making it worse in all except for one thing - laser vomit exchange

No, the Oxide is far more powerful than the IIC, because it is much more durable, with moderately better sustainability.
The +16 to either leg being the big thing.

The BK gets impressive Structure quirks, which allow for a large XL, which means it is NOT slow. With isLPLs you don't need SRMs. They do longer range, and EXCEL at short range. They can LOLpha nearly as well as the WubShee.



Your lack of understanding is...well, not disturbing, but I feel the PUG LIFE exclamation is appropriate.

[STEF_]

Seriously, I have no problem with the skillcrow.

Skillcrow can do well versus lights.
But not against medium (very bad vs heavy and assaults).
All well using cents, or hunchies ...using weapons that do not spread dmg all over the places.

Skillcrow overrated.

[Jun Watarase]

Meta BJs > stormcrows.