69 replies to this topic

[Chados]

Malleus011, on 22 April 2016 - 08:38 AM, said:

I'm generally in favor of the OP's direction, but I *really* don't want to only ever fight Clanners.

I do think we need to phase out non-CW matches, and put everything 'on the map' without ruining the casual gamer experience.

Kesmai did this 25 years ago with Multiplayer Online Battletech. If we had a PvE mode that worked alongside the current PvP it would be more possible. MPBT was all 4v4 PvE cooperative but for Solaris.

I don't think we will ever see an integrated PvE mode like that you find in Armored Warfare, for example, and that's a shame. But one could make a case for integrating the Quickplay mode with FW by having the quick battles happening on a contested FW world. But that would mean that QP would end up being Clan vs IS all the time, and that isn't truly viable with the Clan tech advantages. The fix is Clan tech for everyone (and then you get Atlases with Clan XL engines) and there is a great desire for that not to happen. Sooo...I would suggest a jump to Operation "Bulldog," and a quantum leap in IS tech base, which would maintain the Clan v IS flavor, yet let the IS be competitive on the battlefield.

MPBT was set at the end of the Third Succession War. If PGI had done this, balance would be a whole lot easier. But people dig the Clans. They want them and they will pay to have them. And they want all that the Clans are, which means all that technical goodness. I say un-nerf the Clans. But also, un-nerf the IS by feeding them with the technology they developed to destroy Clan Smoke Jaguar in the invasion of Huntress.

Edited by Chados, 24 April 2016 - 06:27 AM.

[maniacos]

Quickplay is a ******* senseless joke and it was only there to give people something to do until The Game (the one they promised at launch) was ready.
It however became the main gamemode and FP/CW can be translated into "sit and watch the timer for like half an hour" for most of the time the mode existed (before the split).
The players and the potential they lost during this time will never be back. And you still need QP-Hell to level your mechs before you can consider taking them in to an half serious FP match.

[Jack Booted Thug]

I had an idea that might be stupid but how about voting on an ally each attack phase or for however long.

The two factions would be able to team up and drop on a single planet together if they desired.

And sometimes factions really piss off a clan and an IS faction, allow a clan and an IS to ally if they desire.

The option to team up might improve the number of actual matches.

[Davers]

Ghogiel, on 22 April 2016 - 08:33 AM, said:

They could however reduce it to 4 factions. Crusader + warden for clans, and then what ever else they can group the IS into that makes sense lore wise.

I guess the IS split would be Participants + Spectators.

[Talorien]

Revis Volek, on 22 April 2016 - 11:05 AM, said:

Reductions to just TWO super factions sounds boring as hell if you ask me. Id rather have some freedom, and thats not battletech at all. There is lots of infighting, Clan v Clan later on and tons of IS v IS stuff going on. Making it more vanillia doesnt really sound like a good idea.

Most MMOs have 2, or at most 3, factions, for a good reason.

10 is just unsustainable. If each faction has 2 contested planets, that's 20 battlegrounds.

Add the Scout queues = 40 buckets!

[Malleus011]

I'm very much in favor of the 'shove everybody into one bucket' approach, and *every* battle affects the CW map. This will likely require blending the fun and balance (such as it is) of current PUG games with CW games.

[Red Shrike]

Talorien, on 21 April 2016 - 09:05 PM, said:

-- Two Factions -- IS & Clan. Sub-factions kept for flavour ("Clans are attacking Kurita!") but effectively 2 sides in the war. Sustainable.

Throwing them together is like having Soviets land on Omaha Beach, have USMC fight in Stalingrad and have IJA (Imperial Japanese Army) defend Berlin. I vote no on that one.

Talorien, on 21 April 2016 - 09:05 PM, said:

No Quick Play or FW in their current form. All games are matchmade. All games are Quick Play. All games are FW. All games have minimal wait and take on larger meaning.

Everyone is a freelancer, merc or faction loyalist. Everyone's games count. It is one huge, interstellar war.

This is what we were promised on launch.

Sounds to me like you want to toss everything on a single pile and then have it affect an arbitrary map. Kinda sounds like deciding a huge war through tiny unconnected battles. True, CW is already like that, but pulling the QP masses into this will probably only make it worse.
So another no from me.

[Sharg]

This is really their only option to keep match frequency high enough to support FP.

[Talorien]

Red Shrike, on 25 April 2016 - 12:24 PM, said:

Throwing them together is like having Soviets land on Omaha Beach, have USMC fight in Stalingrad and have IJA (Imperial Japanese Army) defend Berlin. I vote no on that one.

They didn't use mercs

That said, plenty of mixing up of IS forces in the novels during the Clan invasion, even though those featured are usually House units.

Red Shrike, on 25 April 2016 - 12:24 PM, said:

Sounds to me like you want to toss everything on a single pile and then have it affect an arbitrary map. Kinda sounds like deciding a huge war through tiny unconnected battles. True, CW is already like that, but pulling the QP masses into this will probably only make it worse. So another no from me.

Those masses are what provides sufficient critical mass to make QP viable, whereas FW is not. Without them, FW will wither and die from low population.

[Red Shrike]

The QP crowd might provide a population boost, but one of the things I think about is how the QP crowd wouldn't be as invested as the FW crowd. The QP crowd would just play that match like any other, while the FW crowd would play knowing that this was the match that would decide control of the planet.

The QP crowd wouldn't know if there was anything at stake. I am reminded of Heroes and Generals and how joining a specific war battle makes it feel a lot more important than simply pressing the play button and getting matchmade into one.

[Cion]

someone PM Tina or Tweet Russ....this idea deserves to be explored. It has the potential to be both beneficial to the players AND PGI

[Mystere]

Talorien, on 21 April 2016 - 09:05 PM, said:

A grand design. And it is breathtaking.

I'm afraid that's not what I would call a "grand" design. That's a simplified one.

[AWOL 01]

Guys. 48v48 battles. But without respawns. 96 actual mechs on the battlefield at one time. Forget about the maps being too small; that would be epic...

[KinLuu]

Sacrificing quick play - the only thing in this game that really works - to rescue the horrible failure that is CW in its current form, is not a winning move.

CW must be something people want to play, not something you have to force people to play. CW must be changed in a way that it is fun, engaging and rewarding. Then people will play it. As long as it is less fun and less engaging than quick play, it will remain nothing more than an afterthought.

[Talorien]

KinLuu, on 29 April 2016 - 05:00 AM, said:

Sacrificing quick play - the only thing in this game that really works - to rescue the horrible failure that is CW in its current form, is not a winning move.

Thanks for the thought. Can I ask why you think the suggestion would be sacrificing quick play? 12v12 would remain essentially the same.

[Talorien]

Red Shrike, on 28 April 2016 - 06:52 AM, said:

The QP crowd might provide a population boost, but one of the things I think about is how the QP crowd wouldn't be as invested as the FW crowd. The QP crowd would just play that match like any other, while the FW crowd would play knowing that this was the match that would decide control of the planet.

This would be true as things stand, but the prematch splash screens and after match report could emphasise the impact on planet control.

Sadly, without integrating the Quick Play population, FW will wither and die. And Quick Play was never meant to be thing anyway - it was just the temp mode until the full FW shell was developed.

[TiguriusX]

FW in the current form is bad. There are too many planets and faction drop zones. People have found loopholes and manipulate the system (purposefully avoiding planets and forcing ghost drops or abusing ghost drops when there is no opponent). New players are absolutely clueless and have no idea how to help or where to go. They mob up wherever they see activity. Long wait times and lack of activity (i.e., actual combat) discourages anyone else from forming up and the population is low.

I say PGI uses an iron fist and drastically changes how we find matches in FW.

There should be a single option for invasion. FIND MATCH. You don't pick what planet or faction. The matchmaker slots you in (there can be a priority target based on the faction voting system. You can drop as groups or solo.

If you want fluff behind this then just imagine your military high command is assigning you as needed. This would also give PGI MM the potential to pit units against each other when it sees them in the queues

[nehebkau]

Talorien, on 21 April 2016 - 09:05 PM, said:

Warning, radical overhaul suggested. Major surgery needed to save this patient!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- Two Factions -- IS & Clan. Sub-factions kept for flavour ("Clans are attacking Kurita!") but effectively 2 sides in the war. Sustainable.

-- Six Matchmaking Buckets -- 48v48 (like invasion), 12v12 (like quick play), 4v4 (like scout). Each subdivides into: group and solo/duo buckets. Minimum buckets = short wait and fair matches.

-- All Games Matchmade -- Faction voting decides current planet to attack/scout on. Thus each faction will only have one attack and defense planet active. Team selects attack or defense before queueing.

-- Automatic Routing -- between defense and attack queues if (e.g.) the defense planet has no defenders.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A grand design. And it is breathtaking.

No Quick Play or FW in their current form. All games are matchmade. All games are Quick Play. All games are FW. All games have minimal wait and take on larger meaning.

Everyone is a freelancer, merc or faction loyalist. Everyone's games count. It is one huge, interstellar war.

This is what we were promised on launch.

Don't bother PGI isn't listening. For some reason PGI management appears to believe that the money/glory rests in making MWO an e-sport.

[Red Shrike]

Talorien, on 30 April 2016 - 07:12 AM, said:

Sadly, without integrating the Quick Play population, FW will wither and die. And Quick Play was never meant to be thing anyway - it was just the temp mode until the full FW shell was developed.

MWO wouldn't be the first game to implement QP as a temp solution only to find it too lucrative to abandon further down the line. They should've gone with CW right off the bat and implement a lesser QP offschoot of that later, rather than the other way around.

TiguriusX, on 30 April 2016 - 08:01 AM, said:

I say PGI uses an iron fist and drastically changes how we find matches in FW.

There should be a single option for invasion. FIND MATCH. You don't pick what planet or faction. The matchmaker slots you in (there can be a priority target based on the faction voting system. You can drop as groups or solo.

If you want fluff behind this then just imagine your military high command is assigning you as needed. This would also give PGI MM the potential to pit units against each other when it sees them in the queues

So Faction Warfare without factions? That would make it a glorified QP, which will only drive even more people away. Not to mention it would remove the little fluff we have.

Edited by Red Shrike, 30 April 2016 - 02:37 PM.

[Livewyr]

A queue system. Really?
Just, another glorified *not* quick play.

(Don't worry, PGI didn't and doesn't get it either... community warfare is supposed to involve communities doing diplomacy and intrigue...not voting on the map/mode like quickplay.)