102 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

ScarecrowES, on 22 April 2016 - 02:02 PM, said:

Well, for the record, the only version of the Kingfisher that has ECM is also a version that uses future tech not in the game. That's problematic. It still suffers from having 16.5 lost tons due to the standard engine, and that accounts for nearly half of the potential free tonnage of the mech.

Yeah, the Hellbringer lost some potential tonnage in not having Endo, but it makes up for that very minor loss in other ways. I don't see the Kingfisher being able to make up a full 16.5 tons of lost weapons, no matter how it's quirked.

The Kingfisher can bring more firepower than a Hellbringer, so there is that. 54-61 damage man, that is enough. It will also have some great hardpoints, and the full 16.5 tons of lost weapons that it wouldn't even be able to properly utilize is definitely going to be addressed to some degree in the form of quirks. It has as much firepower as popular Banshee 3M builds, at a similar range.

I'm not worried about the future tech variant at all.. PGI MADE UP a Cyclops variant to give it ECM. There is no doubt in my mind they will take this mech, and create/modify a variant to give it ECM.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 22 April 2016 - 02:12 PM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

DjPush, on 22 April 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

Stop counting omnipods as mechs. The Arctic Cheetah is one mech. Putting the ECM omnipod on all 3 torso variants, does not mean you have 3 ECM mechs now. It's no different than putting an ERPPC on a Spider 5D instead of 3 Med Pulse.

There are 5 clan mechs with ECM... Not 15.

9 / 203 == 4.43%

5 / 92 == 5.43%

Numbers still say Clans have more ECM then.

[Gyrok]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 22 April 2016 - 01:41 PM, said:

Quirks are a bit out of hand and wouldn't be needed in the capacity they're used if they'd balance the base stats first.

QFT!

[Aresye]

Prosperity Park, on 22 April 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

It is one of my best money-makers, but it looks like people are split between the Hellbringer is GodMode and Hellbringer is Alright.

Here's an easy way to determine the real answer to that question:

When was the last time you saw a Hellbringer used in a competitive match?

The EBJ is just flat out better at the same tonnage. ECM isn't important enough nowadays to justify its existence in a competitive drop deck, and if you're wanting something more humanoid with good hardpoints to do laser vomit, why not the Quickdraw? 3 IS LPL + high mounts + jump jets + quirks? gg Hellbringer.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Aresye, on 22 April 2016 - 02:13 PM, said:

The EBJ is just flat out better at the same tonnage.

I would disagree because of how bad the Ebjag's hitboxes are and its inability to poke. The meta just heavily discourages poking, especially with the duration of Clan lasers.

[Gyrok]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 22 April 2016 - 02:08 PM, said:

9 / 203 == 4.43%

5 / 92 == 5.43%

Numbers still say Clans have more ECM then.

LCT-PB

CMD-2D

SDR-5D

RVN-3L

CDA-3M

GRF-2N

CTF-0X

ARC-T

CP-11-P

AS7-D-DC

I do count 10...just to be completely accurate...

Edited by Gyrok, 22 April 2016 - 02:17 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Gyrok, on 22 April 2016 - 02:17 PM, said:

LCT-PB

CMD-2D

SDR-5D

RVN-3L

CDA-3M
GRF-2N
CTF-0X

ARC-T

CP-11-P

AS7-D-DC

I do count 10...just to be completely accurate...

If you are going to count the Cyclops, then you have to count for the TWO Phoenix Hawk variants!!

It actually does make sense to account for announced variants, as the next Clan ECM mech will definitely be dropped in after those are already in game.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 22 April 2016 - 02:19 PM.

[Gyrok]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 April 2016 - 02:18 PM, said:

If you are going to count the Cyclops, then you have to count for the TWO Phoenix Hawk variants!!

Crap...I forgot the PXH had those...

That is 12 total...yeah....

I would say that shifts the ECM balance quite a bit now...

[Felicitatem Parco]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 22 April 2016 - 02:08 PM, said:

9 / 203 == 4.43%

5 / 92 == 5.43%

Numbers still say Clans have more ECM then.

No, no, no. He is asking you to collapse all Clan variants within a chassis into just 1 Mech. According to him there are only 21 Clan Mechs in the game.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Gyrok, on 22 April 2016 - 02:17 PM, said:

LCT-PB

CMD-2D

SDR-5D

RVN-3L

CDA-3M

GRF-2N

CTF-0X

ARC-T

CP-11-P

AS7-D-DC

I do count 10...just to be completely accurate...

Gas Guzzler, on 22 April 2016 - 02:18 PM, said:

If you are going to count the Cyclops, then you have to count for the TWO Phoenix Hawk variants!!

It actually does make sense to account for announced variants, as the next Clan ECM mech will definitely be dropped in after those are already in game.

Gyrok, on 22 April 2016 - 02:19 PM, said:

Crap...I forgot the PXH had those...

That is 12 total...yeah....

I would say that shifts the ECM balance quite a bit now...

It took me a minute to spot the CP-whatever...

I haven't been keeping up with the new mechs. I don't even bother until they're in Smurfy's anymore. Lol

Prosperity Park, on 22 April 2016 - 02:21 PM, said:

No, no, no. He is asking you to collapse all Clan variants within a chassis into just 1 Mech. According to him there are only 21 Clan Mechs in the game.

So then 5 of 21 then?

[MauttyKoray]

Juodas Varnas, on 22 April 2016 - 11:45 AM, said:

Can we like... Get less ECM in general?

Or like... Rework it entirely, cause it's dumb?

Yeah, there needs to be a change to ECM so we can have different kinds and it be a choice of options, Angel, Guardian, etc. I'm personally really tired of the 'Jesus Bubble' from a game standpoint when thinking of the possibilities with actual BTech ECMs. (Mind you, I'm not a TT player.)

[badaa]

ecm is a crutch and players who hav it rarely use it to the benefit of the team

and should hav a recharge time so its not always on

Edited by badaa, 22 April 2016 - 02:39 PM.

[Aresye]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 April 2016 - 02:15 PM, said:

I would disagree because of how bad the Ebjag's hitboxes are and its inability to poke. The meta just heavily discourages poking, especially with the duration of Clan lasers.

Which is why I feel the EBJ is the better choice. The HBR is sort of confined to poking since it can't carry the amount of guns that the EBJ can.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 22 April 2016 - 02:34 PM, said:

So then 5 of 21 then?

Yes, because Omnis are interchangeable we can say that 5/21 of all the Clan Mechs have ECM, and only 9/203 IS Mechs have ECM.

So ~24% of Clan Mechs are ECM capable, and ~4.5% of IS Mechs are ECM capable.

[FupDup]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 April 2016 - 11:57 AM, said:

The Kingfisher has what you need.

Has more right to ECM than the Cyclops or the Tempest does...

The Cyclops has a distinctive lore role of being a command vehicle equipped with very special, rare, and expensive sensor equipment.

I wouldn't mind Kingfisher ECM at all, but I just had to point out that your claim there was invalid.

[Gas Guzzler]

FupDup, on 22 April 2016 - 02:57 PM, said:

The Cyclops has a distinctive lore role of being a command vehicle equipped with very special, rare, and expensive sensor equipment.

I wouldn't mind Kingfisher ECM at all, but I just had to point out that your claim there was invalid.

So "very special, rare, and expensive sensor equipment" is more equivalent to ECM than ECM is? Sorry, this doesn't make any sense. The fact that not a single Cyclops variant exists with ECM (prior to MWO) means its less eligible for ECM than a Mech that DOES have an ECM variant.

My claim is perfectly valid.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Aresye, on 22 April 2016 - 02:42 PM, said:

Which is why I feel the EBJ is the better choice. The HBR is sort of confined to poking since it can't carry the amount of guns that the EBJ can.

Neither are the better choice currently, it also depends on you need them for, they do different things.
HBR is like the Clan QKD
EBJ is like the Clan GHR
TBR is like the Clan BK

Yeah, sure we use the BK and GHR more than the QKD, but it still is a great mech that has its uses even in this mid-push meta.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 22 April 2016 - 03:24 PM.

[Triordinant]

All this endless whining and arguing about which side is OP will end if they make everything Clan vs. Clan and IS vs IS.

[Gas Guzzler]

Triordinant, on 22 April 2016 - 03:22 PM, said:

All this endless whining and arguing about which side is OP will end if they make everything Clan vs. Clan and IS vs IS.

This thread is about adding more ECM clan mechs, not about which side is OP.

[Triordinant]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 April 2016 - 03:25 PM, said:

This thread is about adding more ECM clan mechs, not about which side is OP.

What I'm saying is if each side only fought against its own Factions it wouldn't matter whether Clan or IS 'mechs had more MASC or ECM than the other.