61 replies to this topic

[madhermit]

Atleast balance the group sizes so you have 10 man group + 2 solo vs 10 man group + 2 solo instead of 12 man group vs 12 solo.



Edit:

Also I hope people don't misunderstand. I have nothing against units playing with pugs so long as the GROUP SIZES are balanced. Only people who want to see 12 man tryhard unit dropping on bunch of randoms are the 12 man tryharders who enjoy easy game. I will guarantee that the FW will die again if this happens in the current state of the game.

Edited by madhermit, 23 April 2016 - 01:26 PM.

[DarklightCA]

Ignoring the fact that there are more solo players than there are groups and ignoring the fact that there are not a lot of units that can form consistent 10 man groups. How exactly would this work?

[kapusta11]

DarklightCA, on 22 April 2016 - 11:24 PM, said:

Ignoring the fact that there are more solo players than there are groups and ignoring the fact that there are not a lot of units that can form consistent 10 man groups. How exactly would this work?

More solo players? Isn't the whole point of merging the queues is because there's simly not enough players to support solo queue?

[Raubwurst]

Solo says you are playing on your own AND you have no unit tag. There are a lot of people who play solo and have a unit tag and thus land in the unit queue.
The amount of players that are unitless and play cw are too low and that is the reason the groups will be merged likely.

[StUffz]

Faction Wars is not about single players. It's about playing together as a whole. Or to put it this way:

[kapusta11]

Raubwurst, on 23 April 2016 - 01:52 AM, said:

Solo says you are playing on your own AND you have no unit tag. There are a lot of people who play solo and have a unit tag and thus land in the unit queue.
The amount of players that are unitless and play cw are too low and that is the reason the groups will be merged likely.

What will save pugs from unit members who "solo" sync drop?

[DarklightCA]

kapusta11, on 23 April 2016 - 01:47 AM, said:

More solo players? Isn't the whole point of merging the queues is because there's simly not enough players to support solo queue?

No the whole point of the merger is that there is not enough people to support both queue's and yes solo players are the majority. People create 1 man units and never bother to join a actual unit, majority of the players in the unit queue are also solo players.

[kapusta11]

DarklightCA, on 23 April 2016 - 02:08 AM, said:

No the whole point of the merger is that there is not enough people to support both queue's and yes solo players are the majority. People create 1 man units and never bother to join a actual unit, majority of the players in the unit queue are also solo players.

I assume you have actual data to prove your point?

[DarklightCA]

kapusta11, on 23 April 2016 - 02:10 AM, said:

I assume you have actual data to prove your point?

If units were a majority and solo players were a minority or on equal population with units than units shouldn't be having problems finding other units to fight. Units shouldn't be primarily matched up against random solo player teams that get stomped.

It's common sense, if the majority of the people you get matched up against are solo players than the biggest population are solo players. Considering that never changed when they added the split queue and solo players only with tags are the majority population you get matched up against than it's common sense that majority of the population are still solo players.

That being said, how do you setup a queue system where the minority of the population is suppose to represent the majority of the playerbase in the drops and expect that to be a good system.

[MischiefSC]

DarklightCA, on 22 April 2016 - 11:24 PM, said:

Ignoring the fact that there are more solo players than there are groups and ignoring the fact that there are not a lot of units that can form consistent 10 man groups. How exactly would this work?

Nope. You can see it on leaderboard - also Russ' own quotes on twitter. Solo queue is filling 1 invasion drop per HOUR. When we did a collection of screenshots in CW 1 it showed about 25% tagless. The assumption was that a lot of people would go tagless and people from QP would join to make more solos -

Which didn't happen. Instead a lot of previously tagless people went solo unit to play in unit queue even with playing against teams.

The skittles you see are unit members who's team isn't around and and are pugging.

There's a tiny solo population. It shrunk with giving them their own queue. Actually a good sign - I think there's more people who want to play in units they're just not sure how to find one they would enjoy. We have no good tools to get to know prospective members.

Also I am starting to think more people want to learn to play in a team, they're just not sure where to start or what that looks like.

It's got me thinking again that what we need are far better recruitment tools. Everyone who plays CW pugs to some degree - you remove the CW population from total population and I think tagged players are not the minority anymore.

Start looking at your match populations. CW, QP, solo or group queue. What percent on average are still actually tagless?

I think we went about this wrong. We need good rewards in unit queue for participating - a taste of the MC for everyone who played on the world that flipped. Higher rewards for playing against better enemies. Not just the one with the tag.

This rewards not just units for playing units but solos for playing in matches alongside teams who can help them win both against good opponents and flip worlds as they get paid better for both.

Unit membership then becomes a progression. Everyone is getting rewards for the same goals and solos and units are not in competition, solos are in it to flip worlds and beat good teams too. It promotes coordination to a common goal and makes "just playing for stats/cbills" independent of playing for team win particularly stupid.

This indicates we might have a better population dynamic for that than I would have hoped.

Edited by MischiefSC, 23 April 2016 - 02:38 AM.

[maniacos]

madhermit, on 22 April 2016 - 10:44 PM, said:

Atleast balance the group sizes so you have 10 man group + 2 solo vs 10 man group + 2 solo instead of 12 man group vs 12 solo.

This would be good and generaly great for balance.
But I don't see how this should work with the acutal playerbase and the actual willingness to play CW.

PGI should first make it more entertaining to play CW. Like half an hour waiting time and then being asswiped by a 12 trained group did not help the reputation of CW much. There been evenings when we hardly saw more than 3 from the same unit and sealclubbed them in one or two waves.

[DarklightCA]

MischiefSC, on 23 April 2016 - 02:36 AM, said:

Nope. You can see it on leaderboard - also Russ' own quotes on twitter. Solo queue is filling 1 invasion drop per HOUR. When we did a collection of screenshots in CW 1 it showed about 25% tagless. The assumption was that a lot of people would go tagless and people from QP would join to make more solos -

Which didn't happen. Instead a lot of previously tagless people went solo unit to play in unit queue even with playing against teams.

The skittles you see are unit members who's team isn't around and and are pugging.

There's a tiny solo population. It shrunk with giving them their own queue. Actually a good sign - I think there's more people who want to play in units they're just not sure how to find one they would enjoy. We have no good tools to get to know prospective members.

Also I am starting to think more people want to learn to play in a team, they're just not sure where to start or what that looks like.

It's got me thinking again that what we need are far better recruitment tools. Everyone who plays CW pugs to some degree - you remove the CW population from total population and I think tagged players are not the minority anymore.

Start looking at your match populations. CW, QP, solo or group queue. What percent on average are still actually tagless?

I think we went about this wrong. We need good rewards units unit queue for participating - a taste of the MC for everyone who played on the world that flipped. Higher rewards for playing against better enemies.

This rewards not just units for playing units but solos for playing in matches alongside teams who can help them win both against good opponents and flip worlds as they get paid better for both.

Unit membership then becomes a progression. Everyone is getting rewards for the same goals and solos and units are not in competition, solos are in it to flip worlds and beat good teams too.

This indicates we might have a better population dynamic for that than I would have hoped.

You can see what on the leaderboard? That 6 units have planets and a bunch of other units that I have NEVER seen in any form of a group in any game happens to have their unit tag on it? That's suppose to mean that ALL those units have 10 people that can represent their unit on a regular basis to make this idea work? Don't make me laugh.

Regardless if somebody created a one man unit to solo queue in the unit queue or somebody belongs to a inactive unit that barely plays, they are all still solo players if you aren't group dropping and in regards to the OP's suggestion that means for every two of those players you need a active unit that can form a 10 man group.

Being that majority of the players that units still get matched up against are tagged solo players, I'd state that there aren't enough 10 man's in this game to hold up all the solo players in a queue system like that.

Edited by DarklightCA, 23 April 2016 - 02:48 AM.

[rockspider]

Oh wow I literally just had the same idea and same split of players as you.
Posted in the other thread.

[Mordin Ashe]

FW is only surviving thanks to solo players, be it absolute pugs or people in units. Without those FW has no future. Just like 12man normal drops that were introduced, failed spectacularly and didn't recover ever since.

Solo players are what drives FW, not groups. Focusing the game around people who only want to play in groups of 12 is a terrible thing because all the candy is going to those who are very few.

Edited by Mordin Ashe, 23 April 2016 - 02:55 AM.

[gloowa]

This completely baffles me.

Week ago, every single match was 8+ unitless pugs. Now Russ says they apparently stopped dropping.

Leave it to pugs to whine for a year to get a feature in because "game is unplayable without it", and then when it's there, refuse to use it.

Seriously, if i was Russ, next Town Hall would start with heavy language adressed at certain groups of people.

[sycocys]

A lot of the problem is that Russ had the genius idea of splitting the queues and adding 4v4 in the same patch.....

Of course a lot of players are going to play the new mode instead of the one that they've been bored to death with, or only know as the "get my arse kicked mode" in the case of solo players.

Split queue should have been tested out months ago.

[Monkey Lover]

I asked Russ to do this on tweeter week ago. I hope he is thinking about it. I often see mix units sizes join the Q it should work. Right now he is saying less than 1 solo drop a hour so it can't be any worse than this.

[Traxon Spaceban]

There's just one reason why solo queue doesn't work: nobody's there. chicken and egg situation yes, but it's why I started a unit of one, so I could actually play.

[Cy Mitchell]

sycocys, on 23 April 2016 - 07:02 AM, said:

A lot of the problem is that Russ had the genius idea of splitting the queues and adding 4v4 in the same patch.....

Of course a lot of players are going to play the new mode instead of the one that they've been bored to death with, or only know as the "get my arse kicked mode" in the case of solo players.

Split queue should have been tested out months ago.

Exactly. There is no shortage of solo players (either tagged or untagged) in the Scouting missions. It is also a lot more fun as a solo player because with just 4v4 there is a chance that even as a solo player you will not get rollstomped like almost always happens in 12v12 when you join solo.

Why is it so hard to understand that the majority of players do not have the time or inclination to join a large group? They want their gaming to be fun and a way to unwind from the grind of RL, not a big commitment that becomes another type of job. These people (90% of the MWO population by Russ' own admission) will gravitate towards the game modes that are fun and take less commitment. Those are QP and Scouting.

Traxon Spaceban, on 23 April 2016 - 07:22 AM, said:

There's just one reason why solo queue doesn't work: nobody's there. chicken and egg situation yes, but it's why I started a unit of one, so I could actually play.

Which puts you and others right back where you were before. That is, being a bunch of solo PUGs getting stomped by 8+ player unit teams. The solo drop should have been set up for the tagless and tagged solo players. If more than two players with the same tag dropped then they should have to go to the unit drop or should have had to wait in queue to drop on a PUG team alone. The problem is that I doubt that PGI has the coding to manage this.


By adding scouting PGI has given the solo players a new playground. It is no surprise that they are shying away from the old stale 12v12 FW where they have had bad experiences in the past.

Edited by Rampage, 23 April 2016 - 07:54 AM.

[Helsbane]

All Hail the bug free wonder that is PHASE THREE!!!