94 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

Lots of good points here. I think the big challenge is keeping in mind what PGI can and cannot do. MWO has a lot of problems mainly because they overestimated their abilities and/or underestimated how difficult certain things would be. "CW 90 days after launch".

I'm not totally opposed to the idea of replacing Solaris and PVE with just a singular push for CW as the only way to play MWO. It's either one or the other, I feel. I just think that Solaris + PVE is so much easier than getting CW right, especially if you want a working economy, procedurally generated maps, etc.

The points about immersion are great. And I think everyone wishes PGI didn't abandon role warfare in favour of consumables and modules.

[0rionsbane]

Well pgi made a product with a few goals in mind, so keeping with those golas what could they have done differently.

Monetization (currently mech packs/mechs, Visuals (camo etc), Mechbays (small but there), and xp conversion, premium time which all ties in to mechs and mechbays.

I would monetinize it differently, i would monetinize the single player campaign (one thing i would make first before cw) as a set cost per campaign say 10-20 missions. the campaign to save resources would utilitize the online enviroment of this game to make it the first co op campaign for mechwarrior. there would be two campaigns released at once each from a different prespective and trying to use the same resources (maps etc) the end map would be the setting for a deathmatch map like we have now giving them a backstory.

I would avoid monetinizing mechs but monetinizing camo, mech bays and visuals is fine as well as premium time with a large bonus for buying it making the game far less grindy if you had it.
i would also monetinize titles, badges things like that people will pay a lot to have something unique identifying them online.

by not monetinizing mechs and giving more depth to the online deathmatch we have now, going into cw would be far easier, and balance could be done with cbill value like it actuall is desinged to be done. Mechwarrior was never balanced on technology of the mechs or damage per mech, it was always balanced by cost to reward. in mechwarrior 1-4 you would have a mech and a loss of that mech would set you back, but a win could give you more stuff. it was balanced unfairly in singleplayer campaigns (mw 1-4) in favor of the player so they could eventually have everything in the game. in the online version i would change that to be less player focused making it so no player should get everything in the game, unless of course they are paying for premium time and/or are playing for a extremly long time much like most online games. So a grind, but i would make the custimization aspect of mechwarrior far more obtainable, switching mechs and gear should not be a chore but a feature. getting more total mechs and gear however should take a while. ex you get one mech to start and can easily switch it out to another mech of similar value and its loadout, but getting a second mech is harder. this would be by simply un nerfing the loss from selling, but adding in repair, rearm, and other costs to limit profit between matches.
This would also allow cw when it is implemented to be balanced in the same way, each planet and dropship could cost c-bills to maintain and give c-bills in profit when sucessfully completing missions. as a result the game would be more about the economics of your mech than the actual power. and battletech mechs are pretty economic in design designed to give good value for how much they cost. stock mechs of course are still not the most viable mechs, but slapping on twice the value in weapons to a older mech chassi has limited returns as it cost more to maintain now and it could have been cheaper to field in its previous configuration.

anyway this has become a long post but to tl:dr it. i would balance the game by mech economics, to do so i would have to make money elsewhere as a company. and as such the game would translate a lot better into different game modes as the underlying balance would always be there and a lot easier to adjust.

[Odanan]

Alistair Winter, on 23 April 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

With that out of the way, I was thinking about this today and I'm not really sure what I would do if I had a time machine and go back in time to, say, become major stockholder of PGI and insert myself as the president in 2011. What would I have done different?

First, I want to say PGI did a lot of things right. A lot of things. Still, some things could have been done differently. Those are my opinion:

• I wouldn't balance Clans 1x1 with IS. Instead balance 10 Clans (2 stars) vs. 12 IS (3 lances). Yes, that leads to a big problem: even in public drops, all the group would need to choose either all Clan mechs or all IS mechs. Group weight could be used to fine tuning the balance here. Another solution would be to make Clan mechs considered "heavier" than the real weight for group tonnage purposes.
  
• I would remake the experience tree, with more specialization and options. Also, to unlock the elite wouldn't require 3 variants of the same chassis, but 3 variants of the same weight class. It's the unlocking of the master (which needed to have more options) that would require 3 variants of the same chassis elited. This is basically the inverse of what we have.
  
• I would split hardpoint in two types: small and large. A small energy hardpoint, for instance, would allow only the following: flamer, small lasers and medium lasers. A small ballistics hardpoint would allow: machinegun, AC/2 and AC/5s. A small missile: SRM2s, SRM4 and LRM5. No more Catapult K2s with dual gauss. Most hardpoints "sizes" would be based on the stock weapon, but some small might be changed to large in selected variants to make them more unique.
  
• Quirks: if even after the sized hardpoints some variants/chassis are worst than others, quirks would be needed. But I would base quirks on the stock weapons, to encourage a game more similar with Battletech proper.
  
• I would release at least 1 hero mech each month. That's easy (and worthy) money: some people really want new toys to play with (denying that is to lose money). BTW, all of the heroes would be based on canon mechs (at least canon pilots).
  
• Hardpoint inflation for some omnipods. That would be a major balance factor "intra-Clan". Also, I would encourage players to use more omniparts of the same configuration (so owning more than 1 omnimech "variant" would be meaningful), probably specializing each center torso with an interesting quirk.
  
• Reduce the engine customization (still based on the stock engine). You could still increase/decrease your engine, but not to an engine much bigger or smaller.
  
• Still on omnimechs: unlock ES and FF and maybe engine. It would only help the worst omnimechs (since the good ones already have both and a good engine).
  
• Rework how the heat is treated (decreasing the heat total capacity, but increasing the heat dissipation) so high alphas would be penalized. Maybe that would make the ghost heat unnecessary?
  
• Ammo: double the TT capacity/ton (now it's +50% of the TT). Nothing more logic since both the structure and max armor of all mechs were (at least) doubled. This strengthens ammo dependent loadouts and values stockish builds. Also, it allows mechs to endure more on CW.
  
• ECM reworked - meaning that it would worth for it's 1.5 tons, nothing more (should never be released as a Jesus-in-the-Box). It shouldn't, for instance, deny the use of any weapon (like LRM and SSRM), but only delay (enough to help) the locking of the target.
  
• Better UI right from the start. It is still not very good. The game needs to help the players to understand things easier.
  
• Tutorial released much earlier. No need to be as big and "non-linear" as the Mechwarrior Academy.
  
• More dynamic balance tuning. Sorry PGI, but you guys take too long to balance some weapon systems. Sometimes a small value adjustment is all it's needed. [PS: I still want to work with you!]
  
• More careful with public relations, avoiding some incidents.
  
• Monetize all mechs released in the game, after the first 4 (founders) in standalone packs. But these packs would need some price adjustments, something like: $10 for IS lights, $15 for IS mediums, $20 for IS heavies, $25 for IS assaults. $5, $7, $10, $13 for "collector" variant and $10, $13, $15, $17 for the hero (Clan mechs should have a small increase in price, like +$5 for each weight class).
  
• If the first Clan Invasion pack was made like it was (I would order the tiers differently, probably grouping the 2 mechs of the same weight class in one tier), Dire Wolf should be the top tier, not the Warhawk.
  
• No consumables whatsoever (Arty and Cool Shot would be regular modules that you can use only once per match). Specially no "premium" consumables. Never.
  
• Promote MWO's assets, AKA, don't hide your mech-porn, PGI. Some concept arts of mechs already in the game weren't even released. We know there is a LOT of art by Alex Iglesias there, with sketches, orthos, huge sized concept arts... Make all this art available to the public - put them all in the site, with the deserved reverence. What you did with the "Classic" mechs should be done with every mech in the game (and not lost in the forums, but compiled in one place). Don't underestimate the power of your own mech-porn.

EDIT: more stuff

• As pointed by another member, more TT penalties for overheating (flicking sensors, less speed, pilot blackout).
  
• Cockpit hit (glass crack) effect.
  
• Marik color made purple, not pink.
  
• Mech sizes would be based on volume right from the start.

Edited by Odanan, 24 April 2016 - 03:00 AM.

[Dudeman3k]

A few things to make this easier to read:

- How weapons hit: Weapons Pin-point like they do now ONLY at the effective range (I.E. 4 Medlas mounted on torsos will pinpoint at 270m) This will make it so you CAN alpha, but if its closer than 270m, you'll be hitting the side torsos of your opponent vs. all 60dmg at CT.

Also

The only weapons that work exactly how they do now would be on armed mechs with lower arm actuators. High mounted weapons have an advantage... as the lower mounted arms are gimped. Give the lower arm actuator more of a reason to shine over Highmounted arm turrets and it adds balance to choice.

Geometry:
- Each weight class should have a consistent mesh range. I.E. all 50 toners should be the same Length, Height, and Width... everything within those perimeters would only then be permissible (so the mechs can look like they always have, but now have a "set in stone" size for every mech made in said ton bracket)

this carries to...

weapons also need to follow a consistent size. A PPC on a raven should look equally as beefy as it would on an awesome. This would also effect hit boxes equally amongst all weight tiers

Drop ship mode:
- This mode is by far the reason people buy your content (more mechs).... whyyyyy is this not a Quick Play game mode?? it would make Domination x10000 more fun and viable.

if Drop ship mode is to encourage FW play... then remove FW. many of the players here dont even play it. You are effectively robbing your own content from you by restricting this style of play to the majority of games played

[Lucian Nostra]

star the game with CW and no quickdrop matches making MWO a much more immersive experience instead of trying to get it in afterwards.

doesnt all have to be invasion but skirmish, conquest, assault, domination should all be part of quick play FW not aside from it

[Cabbage Merchant]

Matt2496, on 23 April 2016 - 12:28 PM, said:

Here is what I wish PGI would have done right out of the gate:

1. Info warfare such as implementing active vs passive radar. (Every other mechwarrior game had this.)

2. Add higher penalties for staying at a high heat threshold (>80%) other than ghost heat. (i.e. loss of agility, SLIGHT damage to internals, etc.). This would curb a lot of the high PPFLD alpha-strike meta that has been so prevalent.

3. Ability to walk around the mechlab and glance up at the size and magnificence of huge war-machines known as battlemechs. (We've gotten a glimpse of how cool this would be with the new(er) Mechwarrior Academy)

4. More lore dispersed throughout the game. (Maybe something like a pop-down menu mech description stating the historical significance of a particular mech.)

I could keep going on and on, but these are the four things that I wish would have been added right at the beginning when PGI had the original, talented coders and designers that constructed the core game.

Your 3rd and 4th ideas would be amazing! I'd login just to walk around my mechlab.

[TLBFestus]

Alistair Winter, on 23 April 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

This thread could quickly go to K-town, so let's set some ground rules:

• I'm looking for serious discussion. Please avoid clever, sardonic one-line replies to farm internet points.
  
• Please don't make this personal. Don't say "I would fire John Smith, head of marketing". I'm not so much interested in the individuals as the overall strategies. E.g. "I would do marketing like this."

I'm out.

Well played sir, well played.

[TLBFestus]

OK.....Im not out.

This idea might be a bit hard to grasp, but I would have made the main focus of the game CW or Faction Warfare, as they call it now. Not it it's existing state however.

Think more along Planetside. Where during every match you pick where you are going to drop in the battle for control of the overall map. Still have the same maps and mech on mech battles, but in the end the match counts for something in the grand scheme of things.

Provide an introduction with the basic lore of the game, possibly with a voice over and static images of key points of the universe (during install for instance). Make the progression in the game be more linear, ie, you have a budget to equip your first mech so most players are going to start with a light, or some beat down medium.

Allow progression and improvement of your PERSONAL mech as you gain skill and reputation, eventually allowing you to have a stable of mechs.

Make players chose a faction immediately upon starting to play. Have each faction have it's own unique characteristics and mechs and variants, much as you see in the lore. Maybe, and the lore purists can correct or repudiate this, give Kurita an advantage in sensor range of 10%, Steiner a 5% armour bonus, Davion a 5% damage with lasers, etc., but spread it out to balance them.

Don't make it impossible to change factions, but perhaps allow it at certain junctures in your experience tree.

Get the players involved in THE STORY. Get them invested in THEIR mechs, THEIR Faction.

Give people a Solaris mode so that the Groups can whack each other around and people can still just drop in and play a "quick match".

Oh, ....and fire Paul, give the artists a raise, put cyanide in the IGP water Cooler (I was gonna say LSD, but that might have been the truth), and have future Russ travel back in time and slap past Russ around any time he mentions the word "eSport!".

[Johnny Z]

The only mistake they could have made is choking or slowing the games development in my opinion. If Clans were introduced easy mode on purpose and not as imbalance cheap content to buy time, that was also a mistake.

Not one player, including me, without inside knowledge can begin to answer this topics question. Even with hind sight and really good guesses. Players don't know the budget. Simple. Even with an effectively unlimited budget nothing can be done over night.

I was in construction for decades, hard labour, my Grandfather and Dad also, in a form of construction invented in Canada known as Drywall. It is now a standard in construction world wide. My Grandfather went abroad to teach this form of construction for Canadian consulates and even his personal tools were left as prototypes in two other nations. One nation in Asia and one nation in Europe. Many of the first pictures taken of how this form of construction is done are of my Grandad.

Meanwhile my other Grandfather owned and worked in a foundry and machine shop next to it in the industrial center of western Canada. Although that industrial center is now almost entirely gone.

Point being I like to think I have a good eye for if things are done properly or not. This game looks like its going really well if a bit slowly. This from someone who knows next to nothing about building a video game.

Edited by Johnny Z, 23 April 2016 - 09:28 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Little more research. I would have started 3025, started with CW as 4th succession war. I would have worked on Dark Ages content in the background, tested it and then 5 years later when things are getting a bit stale have done a big blowout event - a week long event where everyone had access to all the 3145 mechs and tech and let them all play with it alongside their existing 3025 tech.

Then big jump, start over, options to refit existing mechs with 3145 tech.

Focus on a convergence system and heatscale for balance with minimal structure quirks to balance hitbox discrepancy in mech performance.

Worked *hard* on game balance as #1 priority. Have that be the expectation.

Never have had QP environment- always FW plus a Solaris environment.

Put the money into AI for the release of single player/coop campaigns.

Keep adding complexity layers for bigger and bigger unit management. Logistics, etc. Becomes expanding end game content. Can run a small unit as is but at larger or more successful but dropships to make money (less overhead), establish bases, secure areas, etc.

[mogs01gt]

better scaling and game modes.

[VorpalAnvil]

In 2011? Drink about a gallon of bleach.

[Merit Lef]

I would have introduced the Clans completely different!

1.) Start off with only saying PGI is looking into developing some select Clan mechs in a few months.
-mean while behind the scenes have many mechs already complete.
2.) Create a Third drop party (filled only by PGI) into select matchs.
-Here, good PGI players will drop in Clan mechs ahead of stated schedule.
-Code the third party (PGI) to drop at any moment and at any spawn point on the map. To create a true surprise.
-With spawning at will, PGI only spawns when there are only a few mechs left in the fight say 1-3. Ensuring a clear victory for the Clans. And have them have warhorns! THUS starting real rumors that team X and team Y were destroyed by Clans!
3.) The community will claim they fought Clan mechs but no one would believe them. "Clans dont come out for another 2 months!"
-PGI will also deny any involvement
-Players will post pics but PGI will only claim they are well done photo-shop etc.
4.) Remember when we used to have a weekly/daily IS news feed. Well in that ISN (after said events) now start running reports of unknown forces are decimating lances and cities, leaving no survivors. etc etc standard unknown Clan invasion news we've read before.
-Now people will start to talk more and more, the forms would EXPLODE about any and all sightings. And really build anticipation for the Clan release.
5.) Start releasing in game pics in the ISN feed.
6.) Release the Clan pack and videos.

That would have been a true Clan release and really built some community unity and memories. Not to mention given the Clans a worthy entrance into MWO.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

I'm not a fan of hindsight being 20/20 and second guessing.

But I would say that if I were in charge I would play to my own personal preferences (as anyone would) which are things like.

-A greater emphasis on non linear as opposed to linear gameplay.
-More focus on map geometry. Less chokepoints and funnels on maps. More areas where jump jets are useful and more alternate routes to make lance movements more unpredictable.
-Functional jump jets across the board.
-More emphasis and variety on placement of spawn points.
-I like the open source movement, I would probably try to start a program where anyone could contribute to the game(art, marketing programs, 3d model assets, music, sounds, mod packs) in various ways through a volunteer program with some type of rewards system.
-I know a lot of people have ideas about how the game should work, if it were feasible I would open a test server with an alternate .cfg text file where people could edit weapon cooldown, weapon damage, spawn points and other variables and play their own custom games using their own default settings.

Things like that are the route I would take.

[Scout Derek]

Like Odanan said earlier, I'd redo the skill tree. A lot more could have been done with it, as well as expanding it to prevent the Quirks from ever even coming to MWO in the first place.

Ahh the skill tree, so much potential, but yet used so little.

[Navid A1]

If I was PGI in 2011, then i would have used another game engine with support from its developers, so I should not had to re-invent the wheel.


Most other things mentioned here can be done right now in 2016... no need to go back.

Also... I would consider hiring alot more coders, texture artists and modelers.




One thing that PGI did hit the nail on the head in it was hiring Alex back in 2012.... That was by far their best move up to this day.

[Grey Ghost]

I just wish some form of Community / Faction Warfare was the prime focus from the get go. I really thought back then it would become the defacto way to play MWO. Maybe it was just rose colored memories of MPBT:3025.

[LordNothing]

hire a top notch game programmer and give them most of the decision making authority.

some of the best games were heavily programmer driven.

Edited by LordNothing, 23 April 2016 - 11:49 PM.

[Thunder Child]

Personally, I would have teamed up with the crowd that were running Living Legends.

Seriously, Living Legends mechanics and gameplay, with MWO art assets. Instant Win.

Either that, or a Planetside style setup.

Keep the eSport on Solaris.

[Wolfways]

If I were pgi I would have thought about all the details of what I wanted to do with the game, realized I couldn't do BT justice, and made my own IP.

And/or what Thunder Child said.

Edited by Wolfways, 24 April 2016 - 12:43 AM.