135 replies to this topic

[Agent 0 Fortune]

From a simple mathematical standpoint, balancing a limited and known quantity like 3025 Stock Mode would be 100x easier and less complex than what we have now. Plus as someone who has played it both in Closed Beta (before any of new tech was introduced) and Stock Mech Mondays, I can attest to how well it plays out of the gate, and to how much more enjoyable the playing experience is to what we have now.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 26 April 2016 - 05:43 PM, said:

Your word alone means nothing, you haven't given any other evidence than your word, not even an explanation of why the Cicada works other than speed, which saves no mech.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q...ay+you+tube&l=1

Speed is live. You play Cicada as light on steroids. You got speed, armor and structure to deal with spiders or locust that have just same armament as you do. With speed you avoid open fight and you can out play everything, but of course that highly skilled game play. We had a guy in Stock events that was specializing him self in mechs like that, sometimes he was doing miracles with this "weak" mechs.
And you got cicada 3C, that is very fine mech, that with skill can out troll anything other, you just need to watch out for other lights.

In Stock every mech have its strong and weak points. And tactics are much deeper, on different levels then in Full Custom.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 27 April 2016 - 04:25 AM, said:

In Stock every mech have its strong and weak points. And tactics are much deeper, on different levels then in Full Custom.

I lol'd, tactics aren't any deeper in stock mechs than they are in full custom, I'm definitely calling BS on that. If there were an actual league centered around stock 3025, I guarantee it would be broken down and simplified to a central meta and typical strats just like any other version of this game so far.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 27 April 2016 - 06:44 AM, said:

I lol'd, tactics aren't any deeper in stock mechs than they are in full custom, I'm definitely calling BS on that. If there were an actual league centered around stock 3025, I guarantee it would be broken down and simplified to a central meta and typical strats just like any other version of this game so far.

Well yeah, that`s your opinion bro.

Every body that actually played Stock Mode pretty much agree upon more tactics involved in to matches, in Stock Mode MWO start to be a thinking mans shooter.

It`s somehow amazing that guys that know nothing about the subject are always the most noisy ones.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 27 April 2016 - 06:44 AM, said:

I'm definitely calling BS on that. If there were an actual league centered around stock 3025, I guarantee it would be broken down and simplified to a central meta and typical strats just like any other version of this game so far.

And there was several Competitive Stock Tournaments to my knowledge, all I heard about it is that played great and was best fun for players.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 27 April 2016 - 02:36 PM, said:

And there was several Competitive Stock Tournaments to my knowledge, all I heard about it is that played great and was best fun for players.

None that I have ever known about, so they must've been small or just attracted a small subset of players much like other comp leagues.

Jaeger Gonzo, on 27 April 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:

Well yeah, that`s your opinion bro.

Every body that actually played Stock Mode pretty much agree upon more tactics involved in to matches, in Stock Mode MWO start to be a thinking mans shooter.

You realize this is a double-edged argument, because it swings both ways right? I don't see you playing in any of the full custom leagues at a high level so how can you be anymore objective than I am capable of being?

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 27 April 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

None that I have ever known about, so they must've been small or just attracted a small subset of players much like other comp leagues.


You realize this is a double-edged argument, because it swings both ways right? I don't see you playing in any of the full custom leagues at a high level so how can you be anymore objective than I am capable of being?

So you did`t heard about something... Just imagine how sad.

That`s opinion of many, many folks. Guys that actually played it extensively. Folks on your side of barricade are some individuals, just blind bricks that have no experience on the subject at all, so by definition, they opinion is quiet mining less. You have to try something before you judge, but at this point I`m afraid that no argue can breach your closed mind, as all you do is sense less low quality noise.
All guys that played 3025 Stock Mode agreed that is well balanced out of the gate, with need of just some minor tweaks to perfection. All guys that played 3025 Stock Mode agreed that game play offered by this mode has deeper tactics and is super fun.
Only some guys that never played make some noise against 3025 Stock Mode. And those are probably some CS crowd, as is hard to imagine actually real Battletech enthusiast that would be against such a great thing as 3025 Stock Mode. But well, you are not even aware what is 3025, so that`s is telling enough about your interest in BT.

But well, maybe at some point we will finally get our promised Privet Stock Button, so everyone interested will be able to check is out easily, until then, sorry but your argue are of some quiet low weight and started to be on trollish level.

Edited by Jaeger Gonzo, 28 April 2016 - 05:52 AM.

[Marmon Rzohr]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 27 April 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:

Well yeah, that`s your opinion bro.

Every body that actually played Stock Mode pretty much agree upon more tactics involved in to matches, in Stock Mode MWO start to be a thinking mans shooter.

It`s somehow amazing that guys that know nothing about the subject are always the most noisy ones.

Quite apart from the fact that this a 6 page thread that evolved from an OP that got nearly everything he/she wrote down wrong, what makes you say this ?

The way I see the game MWO is very, very tactical with full customization. Even when pugging there is a lot of calculation and careful judgement involved. It's very much like playing an RTS. Sure, the balance between different weapon systems/tech trees/mechs is far from perfect, but that does not take away from how clever the game is - just makes the drop decks more rigid and takes away from the customization aspect of the game (mind you that is a very significant problem).

IMO the think that makes MWO feel simple rather than tactical is the unwillingness of many players to understand the game on a deeper level and play with strategy in mind.

So where do you feel the difference comes from if it's stock mechs only ?

P.S. I'm not asking about whether it's fun or not (I understand the fun appeal perfectly, I like lots of different weapons to manage and all that myself), but in what way do you think 3025 restrictions contribute to the game being more tactically involving.

Edited by Marmon Rzohr, 28 April 2016 - 06:25 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 28 April 2016 - 03:45 AM, said:

That`s opinion of many, many folks.

I could say that about full custom being considered to have more depth (or at least MRBC rules) and tha many many folks agree with me, you aren't really selling me here, just throwing around empty rhetoric, EXPLAIN why 3025 is more deep, how exactly is it getting more mechs and tactics used, because that I still don't believe.

Jaeger Gonzo, on 28 April 2016 - 03:45 AM, said:

All guys that played 3025 Stock Mode agreed that is well balanced out of the gate, with need of just some minor tweaks to perfection. All guys that played 3025 Stock Mode agreed that game play offered by this mode has deeper tactics and is super fun.

Sounds a bit like group think more than anything.

Jaeger Gonzo, on 28 April 2016 - 03:45 AM, said:

sorry but your argue are of some quiet low weight and started to be on trollish level.

I don't think you know what trolling is , because this is trolly or low weight arguments:

Jaeger Gonzo, on 28 April 2016 - 03:45 AM, said:

Folks on your side of barricade are some individuals, just blind bricks that have no experience on the subject at all, so by definition, they opinion is quiet mining less. You have to try something before you judge, but at this point I`m afraid that no argue can breach your closed mind, as all you do is sense less low quality noise.

Considering you don't have better experience on the other side (have you even tried to get high level in full custom comp?), you can't say anything about the other either, again, you are trying to use a double-edged argument and not even realizing it.

[Oni74]

I'm on hiatus from MWO for about a month now. Having played the game almost every day since closed beta, I've reached a point where new shiny mechs and minor tweaks to the game mechanics isn't enough to address the balance issues, bugs, etc. that still need to be fixed.

I've been playing The Division (Not what I first had in mind when I thought about playing something else) and love it. At this point, I'm not sure whether I'll be back. I hope I do someday and find the game thriving with all the bugs fixed.

Until then, hope you guys have a blast.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Marmon Rzohr, on 28 April 2016 - 06:24 AM, said:

Quite apart from the fact that this a 6 page thread that evolved from an OP that got nearly everything he/she wrote down wrong, what makes you say this ?

The way I see the game MWO is very, very tactical with full customization. Even when pugging there is a lot of calculation and careful judgement involved. It's very much like playing an RTS. Sure, the balance between different weapon systems/tech trees/mechs is far from perfect, but that does not take away from how clever the game is - just makes the drop decks more rigid and takes away from the customization aspect of the game (mind you that is a very significant problem).

IMO the think that makes MWO feel simple rather than tactical is the unwillingness of many players to understand the game on a deeper level and play with strategy in mind.

So where do you feel the difference comes from if it's stock mechs only ?

P.S. I'm not asking about whether it's fun or not (I understand the fun appeal perfectly, I like lots of different weapons to manage and all that myself), but in what way do you think 3025 restrictions contribute to the game being more tactically involving.

People always like to think things are this way by over complicating when keeping it simple is often most efficient and best effective. Which is why meta is meta. You can choose to make it complicated but we all know this game is not "tactical" like you say or want it to be in terms of depth. Which is why you do not see team in high level comp deviate much if at all from the things that are most efficient and effective.

Stop trying to act like this game of checkers is chess.

Edited by GRiPSViGiL, 28 April 2016 - 08:42 AM.

[Killian De Morte]

Marmon Rzohr, on 28 April 2016 - 06:24 AM, said:

Quite apart from the fact that this a 6 page thread that evolved from an OP that got nearly everything he/she wrote down wrong, what makes you say this ?

Quite apart from the fact that all my "wrongness" generated a 6 page thread that shows there are a lot of people out there bored of the try-hard meta-or-go-home players that have turned a potential game of tactics into a game of who-brings-the-most-lazers-wins.

Real mechanics to limit the payloads/alpha-strikes/speed and turn this back into a game of managing a mech to victory, rather COD in a metal suit, otherwise whats the difference ?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Killian De Morte, on 28 April 2016 - 01:25 PM, said:

try-hard meta-or-go-home players that have turned a potential game of tactics into a game of who-brings-the-most-lazers-wins.

The irony here is hilarious, because the try-hard players KNOW there is more to the meta than bringing all the lasers, ffs

[pwnface]

Killian De Morte, on 28 April 2016 - 01:25 PM, said:

the try-hard meta-or-go-home players that have turned a potential game of tactics into a game of who-brings-the-most-lazers-wins.

Real mechanics to limit the payloads/alpha-strikes/speed and turn this back into a game of managing a mech to victory, rather COD in a metal suit, otherwise whats the difference ?

This is pretty telling of how much you don't understand MWO.

Competitive MWO has plenty of tactical and strategic gameplay and is nothing like COD or other twitch shooters.

[Gas Guzzler]

Killian De Morte, on 28 April 2016 - 01:25 PM, said:

Quite apart from the fact that all my "wrongness" generated a 6 page thread that shows there are a lot of people out there bored of the try-hard meta-or-go-home players that have turned a potential game of tactics into a game of who-brings-the-most-lazers-wins.

Real mechanics to limit the payloads/alpha-strikes/speed and turn this back into a game of managing a mech to victory, rather COD in a metal suit, otherwise whats the difference ?

This sounds so ignorant it hurts.

[pwnface]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 27 April 2016 - 02:36 PM, said:

And there was several Competitive Stock Tournaments to my knowledge, all I heard about it is that played great and was best fun for players.

I'm looking through the Community-Run Events sub-forum and haven't seen anything that remotely resembles a competitive stock tournament. So you "heard" about "several" stock mode tournaments but didn't compete in it. Who actually played in a competitive stock mode tournament?

The only relevant thing I've been able to find is this thread from 2014:
http://mwomercs.com/...25-tournaments/

This is what it says:

VaudeVillain, on 15 August 2014 - 01:09 PM, said:

I was wondering if anyone is doing any 3025 tournaments. I only run 3025 tech, but I don't stick with stock, so Stock Tournaments don't interest me.

Brenden, on 15 August 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:

No.

I've been playing this game for close to 4 years now and have never heard of a competitive stock mode tournament in MWO. So I'm going to go ahead and say you are a surat and haven't talked to anyone who competed in a competitive stock tournament since no such tournament has ever existed.

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 28 April 2016 - 04:48 PM.
Language

[pwnface]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 27 April 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:

Well yeah, that`s your opinion bro.

Every body that actually played Stock Mode pretty much agree upon more tactics involved in to matches, in Stock Mode MWO start to be a thinking mans shooter.

It`s somehow amazing that guys that know nothing about the subject are always the most noisy ones.

You also don't need to actually play a stock mode to determine which mechs are going to be stronger or weaker. Simply looking at the stock loadouts available is going to give you a good idea of relative strength. People that actually understand the game can often determine whether a build/loadout is going to be good before ever dropping in it.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

pwnface, on 28 April 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

You also don't need to actually play a stock mode to determine which mechs are going to be stronger or weaker. Simply looking at the stock loadouts available is going to give you a good idea of relative strength. People that actually understand the game can often determine whether a build/loadout is going to be good before ever dropping in it.

The things is that reality of Stock Game play is vastly different and you can`t add your experience of the Full Custom directly.
For example Awesome is strong mek in Stock, who cares about it in main Full Custom? I met many times folks on this pages that simply could not believe that Awesome can be actually be awesome in any given Mode. Same for Vindi, two most crap meks in MWO that actually shine very bright in Stock.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 28 April 2016 - 06:41 AM, said:

Considering you don't have better experience on the other side (have you even tried to get high level in full custom comp?), you can't say anything about the other either, again, you are trying to use a double-edged argument and not even realizing it.

I`m well in tier 1. Anyone in Regiments that I played with know that I`m one of the better pilots out there.

Edited by Jaeger Gonzo, 28 April 2016 - 04:11 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 28 April 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

I`m well in tier 1. Anyone in Regiments that I played with know that I`m one of the better pilots out there.

Being tier 1 doesn't mean you play comp or know comp, nor does it mean you are just as good as other players in tier 1.

[pwnface]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 28 April 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

The things is that reality of Stock Game play is vastly different and you can`t add your experience of the Full Custom directly.
For example Awesome is strong mek in Stock, who cares about it in main Full Custom? I met many times folks on this pages that simply could not believe that Awesome can be actually be awesome in any given Mode. Same for Vindi, two most crap meks in MWO that actually shine very bright in Stock.

The thing is that weapons and mechs largely behave the same way in stock play compared to any other game modes.

A PPC behaves exactly the same whether it is on a stock mech or a fully customized mech.
An Awesome doesn't get it's hitboxes transformed when you run it stock versus fully customized.

Experienced players can look at the stock loadouts and determine which will be strong relative to other stock loadouts. A stock BL-6-KNT is going to outperform a stock CPLT-A1, I can easily determine this without playing either chassis with it's stock loadout. To say that all stock loadouts are balanced is completely ridiculous.

If I cherry picked 8 of the stronger stock loadouts and played against 8 of the weaker stock loadouts, all things being equal the stronger stock loadouts will win. Balance is not "better" in any way, shape, or form.

Jaeger Gonzo, on 28 April 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

I`m well in tier 1. Anyone in Regiments that I played with know that I`m one of the better pilots out there.

Tier 1 only means you aren't a potato, this brings ZERO legitimacy to your argument.

I also know you were part of 9th Sword and have played with you on several occasions, I don't really think you are a particularly standout player. (unless you were in stock mechs every time I played with you then I'm slightly impressed)

Edited by pwnface, 28 April 2016 - 04:37 PM.