135 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 26 April 2016 - 09:00 AM, said:

We speak about 3025 Stock Mode. Hearing that, you probably played this in a very wrong way, mixing all techs and eras. No wonder that you think about it now like this. If you mix Shermans and T-34 with Leopards you would feel the same. Again you have no clue what we are talking about.

3025 isn't any different either.....if it were to go live, I guarantee there would be a decided meta and many mechs would fall by the wayside as useless, just like there is currently. My guess would be something like Hunchbacks and Awesomes for days, the cheesiest stuff from the 3025 era.

[Alex Morgaine]

oneda, on 26 April 2016 - 08:02 AM, said:

Respawn isn't the evil thing you guys make it out to be.

It could be a strategic and limited resource that would allow a team to choose wether to (let's say in assault mode) make a 12 man push towards the enemy base or for example send a few mechs to a certain strategic capture point at the far side of the map.

Maybe a small drop ship pad with a control tower. If you capture that point your team can call in 2 mechs or maybe a lance as reinforcements once you lost a certain amount of mechs.

There could be multiple of those capture points.

One provides reinforcements. The other could provide repairs for a few mechs or other valuable resources.

If implemented correctly this would introduce another dimension to gameplay. You would actually fight over real resources not some flag with no meaning besides points attached to it.

You could give those valuable capture points some defenses. Turrets or even a few npc mechs so a team cant just send a single locust or 2 lights to gain said resource. A team would have to send a considerable amount of mechs to capture that point and weaken a defense against a 12 man push. It would be high risk high reward. There are ways to balance this. If lets say a team is already up 4 mechs the capture phase could be very long, even with three mechs trying to capture it.

If a team is down 6 mechs the capture phase would be much shorter.

I think this could be a lot of fun. Even CW could be partly changed and made more interesting and dynamic with those kind of things.

You know, taking a multi month battle for a planet and shortening it via gameplay might be worth it at this point, with 30+ seconds repairing and a ticket system for "reinforcements" but we'd need even more map size still, and no one in qp land would want a 1-2hour battle. Hell cw would probably want out after 45 minutes with the same Mech. Make omnis good this way though by creating a "drop build" set option for omnis and faster repair to simulate the modular style, and set one mech only. Want to change Mechs? Leave the fight and get back in line to drop on the planet again. Adjust times and such for factors like supplies(more identical mechs/weapons = more time due to less supplies etc)
Something like that would have been closer to sim-like imo then 2-3 lanes and a big central target that could be rushed in one-two fast suicide wave(s).

Edited by Frosty Brand, 26 April 2016 - 09:28 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

xTrident, on 26 April 2016 - 09:03 AM, said:

And I mentioned random respawns, or simply put - drop respawning players where the enemy isn't.

Easier said than done, skirmish mode allows the enemy to setup on a strong defensible position, and objectives with random spawns sounds like a recipe for disaster.

[xTrident]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 26 April 2016 - 09:29 AM, said:

Easier said than done, skirmish mode allows the enemy to setup on a strong defensible position, and objectives with random spawns sounds like a recipe for disaster.

You're going to have that in any game where respawns are allowed. The reason it can work though, is because the team that is currently winning/ahead will have to continuously fight off healthy mechs. Eventually the other team will have some sort of success. I'm not saying they'll win, but they should at least get some kills and possibly not feel as God damn useless as the curb stomp matches.

Of course if one team is simply much better it won't matter, which is something else you'll always run into in other games. But I've used the Gears of War King of the Ring example in the past. Five vs. five victory by capturing and holding the ring for a certain amount of time. Yes, you'll always have one team that starts out strong because frankly you have to. Someone has to capture it first. The difference in Gears of War and MWO when it comes to a team holding their position is you "heal" up after a couple seconds in Gears of War. So if you respawn you're always fighting someone at the same health as you. Wouldn't be that way in MWO.

But par for the course in Gears of War (a game I've always enjoyed playing multiplayer) is the team that has control of the ring would change many times over the course of a match. But like I said - simply going up against a better team meant you lost regardless. That kind of **** is always going to happen so it's a moot point to say respawns wouldn't matter because stomps will still happen. Of course they will, that's part of gaming.


In what way would respawns with objectives be a disaster?

Edited by xTrident, 26 April 2016 - 09:43 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

xTrident, on 26 April 2016 - 09:40 AM, said:

In what way would respawns with objectives be a disaster?

Random respawn locations is what I was referring too.

xTrident, on 26 April 2016 - 09:40 AM, said:

The reason it can work though, is because the team that is currently winning/ahead will have to continuously fight off healthy mechs.

That doesn't stop snowballing, its still a war of attrition just spread out a bit longer.

[TLBFestus]

Mister D, on 26 April 2016 - 01:58 AM, said:

I've been bored of this game for months.

Problem is.. I can't find anything else worth playing either.

Get the reboot of XCOM, or XCOM 2. Not a FPS, more of an strategy game but I promise it will suck you in and burn up lots of hours as you learn it.

[xTrident]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 26 April 2016 - 09:47 AM, said:

Random respawn locations is what I was referring too.


That doesn't stop snowballing, its still a war of attrition just spread out a bit longer.

Okay, so why would random respawns be disastrous?

Still depends on the team, imo. Like I said, stomps/snowballing - whatever - that's still going to happen regardless. I know I've made some terrible decisions early in matches that have cost me dearly. That if I was able to respawn more than likely I would have done much better. There's probably a lot of that, that goes on. And again - If the snowball happened and my team was destroyed 0 -12 to start, you know their team took some damage so when we respawned we'd have a health advantage. And if the respawn was random the enemy team would have to do some scouting. Otherwise... What a great match that would have been losing that badly, right?

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 26 April 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

3025 isn't any different either.....if it were to go live, I guarantee there would be a decided meta and many mechs would fall by the wayside as useless, just like there is currently. My guess would be something like Hunchbacks and Awesomes for days, the cheesiest stuff from the 3025 era.

If you say 3025 its not any different is more then obvious that you don`t have a clue what you are talking about and your opinion is meaning less. As far as we played and we played a lot, we did not find even one chassis useless. Every mech is different to play and gives other game play, while in Full Custom everything is flushed to the moot point where there is no point in buying or owning new mechs other then collector desire. Hunchbacks and Awesomes are indeed strong, but OP? Not even close.

Edited by Jaeger Gonzo, 26 April 2016 - 12:59 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 26 April 2016 - 12:58 PM, said:

If you say 3025 its not any different is more then obvious that you don`t have a clue what you are talking about and your opinion is meaning less. As far as we played and we played a lot, we did not find even one chassis useless. Every mech is different to play and gives other game play, while in Full Custom everything is flushed to the moot point where there is no point in buying or owning new mechs other then collector desire. Hunchbacks and Awesomes are indeed strong, but OP? Not even close.

So you get together with a bunch of players who want to play casual stock mech builds because they aren't in to min-maxing builds. Since none of you are interested in min-maxing, you pick whatever you feel like, or whatever mech you happen to like.

How is this evidence of a balanced game mode that is immune to people with the "optimal" mindset trying to determine what gives them the biggest advantage over their potential opponents?

Unless you guys actually tried to "game" it and bring the best mechs you could, you don't really have a clue what you are talking about either.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 26 April 2016 - 12:58 PM, said:

As far as we played and we played a lot, we did not find even one chassis useless.

Yeah, useless may be a harsh word, but it is simpler than saying much much less effective than alternatives. Also, allow me to not take you and your small group's word on the effectiveness on mechs, because I guarantee that would be figured out pretty fast if those that wanted to play it competitively were allowed their hands on it rather than your casual group of buddies.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 26 April 2016 - 01:22 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Respawn isn't the evil thing you guys make it out to be.

its really not

especially since adding respawn gamemodes doesnt mean removing one-life gamemodes. theyre not mutually exclusive. you can have BOTH.

the game needs a ticket based respawn gamemode like MWLL had. It solves so many problems like deathballing/nascaring. And it changes the focus of the game from simply killing the enemy team to actually completing a strategic objective.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Gas Guzzler, on 26 April 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

So you get together with a bunch of players who want to play casual stock mech builds because they aren't in to min-maxing builds. Since none of you are interested in min-maxing, you pick whatever you feel like, or whatever mech you happen to like.

How is this evidence of a balanced game mode that is immune to people with the "optimal" mindset trying to determine what gives them the biggest advantage over their potential opponents?

Unless you guys actually tried to "game" it and bring the best mechs you could, you don't really have a clue what you are talking about either.

We play for a win as any other.
If you did`t played with us you have no idea what you are talking about. Is this too complex to you guys to understand? You don`t know sh/it about chocolate taste until you taste it. Your lack of experience in that case put you in no position to discuss this subject. I understand that is hard to believe in your munchkins minds, but that is true, 3025 Stock Mode is surprisingly well balanced and extremely fun to play, and that is clear for anybody that have actually played it with us.

[Gas Guzzler]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 26 April 2016 - 03:14 PM, said:

We play for a win as any other.
If you did`t played with us you have no idea what you are talking about. Is this too complex to you guys to understand? You don`t know sh/it about chocolate taste until you taste it. Your lack of experience in that case put you in no position to discuss this subject. I understand that is hard to believe in your munchkins minds, but that is true, 3025 Stock Mode is surprisingly well balanced and extremely fun to play, and that is clear for anybody that have actually played it with us.

It might be fun and slower paced, but I guarantee it isn't balanced.

[Kin3ticX]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 25 April 2016 - 03:36 PM, said:

Yes, we indeed need 3025 Stock Mode.

the emptiest queue of them all

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 26 April 2016 - 03:14 PM, said:

You don`t know sh/it about chocolate taste until you taste it.

Bad analogy is bad.

There are conclusions you can draw from it just by looking at the variants and because it is still the same game (just more limited), that's one of the advantages of having one of those human brain thingies. Sorry, but it is just as imbalanced as any other version of MWO (especially given the chaotic nature of quirks).

[JediPanther]

The only thing that makes the game fun for me any more is not giving a dam about team mates,wining a match, or using a meta mech. I just build a mech and do what ever I want. With the complete derp that the new domination mode is I just suicide that so I don't waste five minutes hoping a bunch of randoms eventually fugues out they need to shoot back at the enemy.

[DaZur]

I can understand a certain level of staleness bearing into consideration the shallow pool of the core game mechanics...

That said, I cannot quite wrap my mind around the inference that one cannot think of any way for a solo player not to find opportunity to explore different tactics or builds unless one is resigning oneself to a narrow play pentameter.

I guess one has to be open to playing the game to discover fun and not expecting the game to shove the fun in your face.

Mind you, I mean no denigration to those who find MWO stale/boring... I'm just befuddled at the premise.

Edited by DaZur, 26 April 2016 - 08:34 PM.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Gas Guzzler, on 26 April 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

It might be fun and slower paced, but I guarantee it isn't balanced.

The guy that can guarantee something is me, as in this polemic only I have any experience about the subject.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 26 April 2016 - 03:34 PM, said:

Bad analogy is bad.

There are conclusions you can draw from it just by looking at the variants and because it is still the same game (just more limited), that's one of the advantages of having one of those human brain thingies. Sorry, but it is just as imbalanced as any other version of MWO (especially given the chaotic nature of quirks).

You talk about quirks? Really just stop, you don`t have a damn clue what you try to talk about, your human thingies are not enough to embrace the subject. Your lack of imagination and really stupid ignorant position that stay in some stupor even if many people said how the reality looks be cause they seen it is simply amazing,
Maybe you should watch it for yourself? We got hours of great Stock game play recorded and available on you tube.

Edited by Jaeger Gonzo, 26 April 2016 - 05:21 PM.

[Mycrus]

Killian De Morte, on 25 April 2016 - 03:08 PM, said:

I think I need to take a break from MWO

The "thinking man's shooter" - how we looked down on those other twitch FPS one-shot-kill games.

Where people run around at break neck speed and turning a corner can get you killed with a couple of insta-shots. Then resurrection to a spawn point to run off and get shot again.

Thanks now to Alpha-Strike Deathball Warrior with Power creep, laser-vomit and all but the slowest fatties running at 100kph+ that is pretty much what we are playing now.
All that is missing is an in-game re-spawn timer on the Pug Q.


and no you cants have my stuff - I may well be back.

Taking a break myself... so many other hobbies to focus on

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 26 April 2016 - 05:16 PM, said:

The guy that can guarantee something is me, as in this polemic only I have any experience about the subject.

Your word alone means nothing, you haven't given any other evidence than your word, not even an explanation of why the Cicada works other than speed, which saves no mech.