104 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Stefka Kerensky, on 28 April 2016 - 07:55 AM, said:

Sadly only 8 free tons... so I can see only 6ersl+2smr4 build there.... despite the 6 vipers offered.
Still an interesting 40 tonner, tho

I believe you are misinformed. With full armor I believe 8.5 tons is the number.

[Mystere]

KinLuu, on 28 April 2016 - 11:30 AM, said:

One gauss is pathetic damage. 5x ERMLas on the other hand...

But he can't see you, he can't shoot back at you, and all the while he's turning like a terrorized headless chicken. That is more fun for me.

[KinLuu]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 April 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

I believe you are misinformed. With full armor I believe 8.5 tons is the number.

8.5 tons if you strip one arm.

8 tons if you dont.

[Gas Guzzler]

Oh... so it doesn't have full armor stock then?

[KinLuu]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 April 2016 - 12:00 PM, said:

Oh... so it doesn't have full armor stock then?

You can use the Cicada as a dummy: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1b93bf0ba60eab3

[Alistair Winter]

Dingo Red, on 28 April 2016 - 03:49 AM, said:

What if... not everything new in this game had to be there to power creep the meta and give you the latest competitive edge?

[Gas Guzzler]

KinLuu, on 28 April 2016 - 12:03 PM, said:

You can use the Cicada as a dummy: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1b93bf0ba60eab3

Clan FF is lighter than IS FF though.

[Go-NoGo]

"It fits the long-decried-by-players absence of a well-rounded chassis for The Clans at the 40-ton mark..."

Or some such close to that 'reason,' will be given as "THE Reason"

[1453 R]

The Viper comes with (effective) max armor stock, and 8.5t podspace. Should be an easy shave to get up to 9t podspace, which does give it a 1-2t advantage over the Cheetah. On top of the more armor/more jets/significantly more hardpoints things. And also being a Viper instead of a Cheetah which may actually appeal to some people. As for THIS nonsense...:

Jun Watarase, on 28 April 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

What if...they actually introduced a 40 ton mech that was substantially different from the existing mechs? You know, to provide variety?

What would your choice of "substantially different" 40-tonner be?

The Pouncer? The Pouncer is mostly useless except as a ten-tons-lighter Nova with piles of E in the arms that it can't use effectively because it sacrifices too much critical slot space to cES/cFF to slot in all the heat sinks it would need. It's not any more 'substantially different' than the Viper is - the Viper is a somewhat heavier Cheetah with a much wider array of hardpoints, the Pouncer is a noticeably smaller Nova and/or a slightly fatter, jumping Adder.

The Coyotl? On top of being obsolete and out of production for a hundred years at least in lore, it's also as hardpoint-limited as the Shadow Cat and would require a Piranha Custom variant to even so much as make it in. It'd need three Piranha Custom variants to conform to the base pack + Reinforcements + Hero model of the new solo packs. At that point Piranha may as well just invent their own brand-new 'Mech and have done with it.

The Battle Cobra? Ahem:

Alistair Winter, on 28 April 2016 - 12:10 PM, said:

Seriously. At the 40-ton weight point, which is important to recall for the seventeen people that still do Commodity Warfare, options for Gunbags are limited. Gunbaggery is not something you do at 40 tons. The Viper is pretty easily the best* of the 40-ton options in the game, drastically outclassing both the Coyotl Ugly and the Fumble Cobra and offering a stronger team presence than the Pouncer and its limited mobility for its size can manage.

Every weight point needs to be hit eventually, for equality of drop deck options between the two tech bases. That means we need a 40-tonner, and of the four* available 40-tonners, I believe most people would really rather have the Viper over the Coyotl Ugly or the Fumble Cobra. Some folks may have honestly preferred the Pouncer...but I would ask them how willing they'd be to pilot a 97kph Cicada on the Sphere side before they really argue over whether the Viper is 'over-engined' and we'd have been better off with the Adder-Plus-Doughnuts?

...yeah. Yeah, I figured as much too.

[KinLuu]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 April 2016 - 12:12 PM, said:

Clan FF is lighter than IS FF though.

Oh, really?

You learn something new everyday.

[Gas Guzzler]

KinLuu, on 28 April 2016 - 12:51 PM, said:

Oh, really?

You learn something new everyday.

Yes, according to the SSW gods, only 3 pts of armor are removed from the stock loadout (that translates to 6 points of MWO armor), which has 8.5 tons of podspace, so stripping an arm should more or less get you up to 9 tons, perfect for 6cSPLs and 13 DHS.

[Sjorpha]

I think 139kph with 11E might be plenty powerful, even if it'll run much hotter than the Nova brawlers the potential of hit n run with 11ERSL sound like it could be devastating.

A 139 kph with 11E is also something new to the game, so those saying it brings nothing new are wrong.

Edited by Sjorpha, 28 April 2016 - 01:40 PM.

[CDLord HHGD]

KinLuu, on 28 April 2016 - 12:51 PM, said:

Oh, really?

You learn something new everyday.

We're here for you buddy. Sarna is too.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

1453 R, on 28 April 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

The Viper comes with (effective) max armor stock, and 8.5t podspace. Should be an easy shave to get up to 9t podspace, which does give it a 1-2t advantage over the Cheetah. On top of the more armor/more jets/significantly more hardpoints things. And also being a Viper instead of a Cheetah which may actually appeal to some people. As for THIS nonsense...:



What would your choice of "substantially different" 40-tonner be?

The Pouncer? The Pouncer is mostly useless except as a ten-tons-lighter Nova with piles of E in the arms that it can't use effectively because it sacrifices too much critical slot space to cES/cFF to slot in all the heat sinks it would need. It's not any more 'substantially different' than the Viper is - the Viper is a somewhat heavier Cheetah with a much wider array of hardpoints, the Pouncer is a noticeably smaller Nova and/or a slightly fatter, jumping Adder.

To be fair though... since PGI is shrinking the existing adder they could totally just use the current adder as the pouncer and have a 0 effort new mech.

[1453 R]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 28 April 2016 - 01:42 PM, said:

To be fair though... since PGI is shrinking the existing adder they could totally just use the current adder as the pouncer and have a 0 effort new mech.

People around here get p!ssed when Piranha copy/pastes 'Mech assets like that. See: Mad Dog/Timber Wolf, Dire Whale/Warhawk. In both cases, shared assets between the two machines, even when backed up by lore, resulted in nasty scaling issues for the Doge and a bad, actively harmful silhouette (and scaling issues) for the Warhawk.

Simply using the existing Adder model and renaming it 'Pouncer' would confuse the hell out of people. There would need to be actual modeling of the Pouncer as a Pouncer, complete with basketball head, which means you're back to square one and need to exert mostly the same amount of effort as any other new 'Mech, since even converted Adder assets would need to be tweaked and quality-checked to ensure they're working properly with a modified model. To say nothing of any animation changes that'd be required to make the thing not be an Adder doppelganger the way the Warhawk is a Whale doppelganger.

It's not remotely as "zero effort" as you figure it is.

[Mcgral18]

Jun Watarase, on 28 April 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

>lol clan quirks

Coming in 2018 maybe. Terrible clan mechs like the nova have been out for like, 2 years and still haven't gotten decent quirks.

The Nova is taken in Comp matches, due to the quirks, sometimes more often than the Crow (but the Griffin beats both of those, for 55 tonners)

The Nova is, I daresay, a good mech with the current quirks. The resize is more likely to make it worse, due to losing TONS of IS, and possibly the weapon quirks as well.

[LordNothing]

Stefka Kerensky, on 28 April 2016 - 05:41 AM, said:

ferret cannot boat ersl like the viper, tho

no but it can boat ermls just fine. thats a 40 point alpha.

[Gas Guzzler]

Mcgral18, on 28 April 2016 - 01:57 PM, said:

The resize is more likely to make it worse, due to losing TONS of IS, and possibly the weapon quirks as well.

I think this is the case for several mechs that are getting smaller, which is kind of sad...

Jun Watarase, on 28 April 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

What if...they actually introduced a 40 ton mech that was substantially different from the existing mechs? You know, to provide variety?

Like the shadowcat is substantially different from the nova...now imagine that instead of the shadow cat we just got a 45 tonner that was pretty much the same as the nova. Now imagine if all the mechs in a particular weight class were very similar to each other.

What would be the point of this, instead of introducing mechs that have distinct roles and different config options?

Granted, they could make it substantially different from the artic cheetah through quirks, but :

>lol clan quirks

Coming in 2018 maybe. Terrible clan mechs like the nova have been out for like, 2 years and still haven't gotten decent quirks.

The Nova is a solid mech, and it has quirks. Summoner and Gargoyle also have legitimate quirks (Summoner has more leg and ST structure than a Dire Wolf! OMG!!) The "Clan mechs don't get quirks" myth really needs to go, its flat out false.

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 28 April 2016 - 01:53 PM, said:

People around here get p!ssed when Piranha copy/pastes 'Mech assets like that. See: Mad Dog/Timber Wolf, Dire Whale/Warhawk. In both cases, shared assets between the two machines, even when backed up by lore, resulted in nasty scaling issues for the Doge and a bad, actively harmful silhouette (and scaling issues) for the Warhawk.

Shared components did not mean the TBR and MDD actualyl had the exact same legs, though. Otherwise they would have been the same tonnage and same Internal Structure pts. Same with SMN and HBR, WHK and DWF, etc. They don't.

Modular designs that are easily adapted between sizes and configurations. Not that they used the exact same unmodified components. That's the issue.

But even then, if Russ had just listened and rigged them better to have a deeper walking crouch, it would have been irrelevant.

Mcgral18, on 28 April 2016 - 01:57 PM, said:

The Nova is taken in Comp matches, due to the quirks, sometimes more often than the Crow (but the Griffin beats both of those, for 55 tonners)

The Nova is, I daresay, a good mech with the current quirks. The resize is more likely to make it worse, due to losing TONS of IS, and possibly the weapon quirks as well.

Don't care. Rather have it honestly mediocre, then dr Jekyll/mr hyde uberquirked, letting one facet of bad game design try to hide and compensate for another.

[Snowbluff]

Any questions?