653 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Haters gonna hate because 99.99995% of people bringing LRMs to FW are bad with them.

If you're on the short list of that 00.00005% of players, good on you. Bring your LRMs and do your thing.

Given that there's not enough of you to have more than 1 in the game at any given time, at best, while 20-30% of players (more on Clan side) bring LRMs the hate is absolutely due and warranted.

Also almost universally the people who are good with LRMs can and do bring direct fire and kick *** with them.

As to the 'combined arms' thing....

doesn't really work that way. Go win a A/B division in MRBC with an LRM mech or two. When that happens or something comparable then you can say that 'it's a good thing'. It's never happened, it's never come close to happening. The reality is that people who are good with LRMs just enjoy them enough to put the 5x or 10x effort required to get them to perform as usefully as direct fire when playing with a good team. That's it.

The proven, tested reality is that in actual practice LRMs are bad compared to direct fire pretty much universally. Some people can do great with LBX - because they've learned to still do great in *spite* of the handicap. If they'd put that much effort into hitting accurately with PPCs they could still poptart like a boss. A few people still do. That doesn't mean poptarting is still a good strategy it just means some people have put in the effort to at least make it viable.

The viability of strategies and tactics gets played out at the top tiers of performance. The ability to make a substandard thing viable by working extra hard isn't changing the substandard nature of the thing in question.

[justcallme A S H]

I had the joy of mass LRM Assault PUGs (and 4 LRM mech decks) over the weekend.

They do not understand they can shoot LRMs from 350m and be more effective than firing them from 900M+ where the flight time is over double, leaving more than ample room to find cover. What is worse, I tried to explain this logic to them - sharing armour, more targets to hit, faster flight time all equals a win/better damage potential

2 LRMers in particular wanted to argue the point, sit back/run with assault mechs. The first second they got shot at while lobbing missiles indiscriminately at targets they weren't hitting 900m away they would run for cover. Of course doing 500dmg across 4 mechs meanwhile everyone else did around 1200dmg and up.

End result was a loss (in a game we should've won). I mean you can't even drop call / explain in game to these people. We had one guy 2 nights ago do 56 damage across 4 mechs - yes, 56 damage. 8v12 basically means the odds are stacked against you when they opposition is of a high calibre (Hi to Misty/Caedas for giving us a beatdown lol )


To some of the PUGs whinging about FP not being a friendly place - You need to realise you are making your own bed when you refuse to move/work as a team, even after being told who is going to drop call, what the plan is etc etc. Most teams don't care about LRMs - they care about teamwork.


In the end I had to disable my mic... The rage was strong that night.


FP event lyf.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 11 September 2016 - 07:14 PM.

[Prussian Havoc]

Not much in my experience showcases the intolerance and decay of our MWO Community like the reaction gamers new to MWO and gamers who prefer LRM's often receive via in-game chat and VoIP.

After a while, we have to ask ourselves... is the fault our own? And not just because one or two HATERS pop-off in Chat or VoIP, but because the VAST preponderance of us don't say or type a word against such intolerance.

While many like to point the finger at PGI for the state of our gamer-base, I find we have no one to blame but our own intolerant attitude or "bystander-mentality" towards our fellow gamers ~ witness the title and general tone of this thread.

Edited by Prussian Havoc, 11 September 2016 - 07:11 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Well given as a D/C you try to;

1. Ask them nicely to follow the team plan (get flatly ignored).
2. Explain why you need them to follow the team plan and the benefits from it (they still don't want to follow)
3. Get a bit more stern about it, explaining they really need to follow the team plan if the intention is to win (then they try to back-chat with "valid" reasons why they can't follow it, yet the other 10 player are).
4. Start then having to try alter the plan mid-drop/fight for the rest of the team to account for 1-2 morons.
5. Eventually lose after effectively being 2 mechs down per wave for 25mins.


Pretty quick to see where the intolerance builds after games upon games of this type of behaviour.

When I started out 10 months ago, I listened/learned from more experienced people.

I'll say it again, while LRMs suck if that is all you have - no problem - just follow the teams calls is ALL anyone wants.

[Prussian Havoc]

justcallme A S H, on 11 September 2016 - 07:12 PM, said:

Well given as a D/C you try to;

1. Ask them nicely to follow the team plan (get flatly ignored).

(...snip...)

There is an ebb and flow to Solo-Gamer Faction Play that is separate and distinct from Premade-Team gameplay.

One of the best aspects of the announced change from 10-Bucket Faction Play to Single-Bucket Faction Play (in the October-timeframe IIRC), will be that Premade-Team's can go and be all about their Team-specific and mandated form of gameplay.

But as PGI sees fit, Solo-Gamers just might find Faction Play matches involving only their fellow Solo-gamers on both sides of the Clan / Inner Sphere divide.


Something tells me that neither group of Faction Play gamers will much miss the other.

[justcallme A S H]

I wouldn't say that.

Even in a loss, long as people listen, who cares? I don't really. It's a game afterall.

I have helped many new players in FP drops, get thanked every now and again for calling/advice/etc. There are some that can't take the feedback though and get all uppity at you and throwing blame around, take the good with the bad.

So I would not be happy if there was no new players around, I was one once as well

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

I have NEVER seen a community as helpful as ours to new players.

[MovinTarget]

I will re-state that as you are "stuck" with these players for an extended period of time "4 waves" i think there is a good chance some solo players will realize thet simply don't want to drop with other solo players because of their approach...

Maybe it will be tolerable if the queue times go way down, but the thing i like about dropping in a group is prep time prior to dropping and also that we are all kind of responsible for each other (so represent the unit well). Can you get that when pug dropping? Occasionally, but not often...

[Hagen von Tronje]

justcallme A S H, on 11 September 2016 - 05:37 PM, said:

I had the joy of mass LRM Assault PUGs (and 4 LRM mech decks) over the weekend.

They do not understand they can shoot LRMs from 350m and be more effective than firing them from 900M+ where the flight time is over double, leaving more than ample room to find cover. What is worse, I tried to explain this logic to them - sharing armour, more targets to hit, faster flight time all equals a win/better damage potential

2 LRMers in particular wanted to argue the point, sit back/run with assault mechs. The first second they got shot at while lobbing missiles indiscriminately at targets they weren't hitting 900m away they would run for cover. Of course doing 500dmg across 4 mechs meanwhile everyone else did around 1200dmg and up.

End result was a loss (in a game we should've won). I mean you can't even drop call / explain in game to these people. We had one guy 2 nights ago do 56 damage across 4 mechs - yes, 56 damage. 8v12 basically means the odds are stacked against you when they opposition is of a high calibre (Hi to Misty/Caedas for giving us a beatdown lol )


To some of the PUGs whinging about FP not being a friendly place - You need to realise you are making your own bed when you refuse to move/work as a team, even after being told who is going to drop call, what the plan is etc etc. Most teams don't care about LRMs - they care about teamwork.


In the end I had to disable my mic... The rage was strong that night.


FP event lyf.

And thats it is...thats why FW is no lucky place to be.
You should do....500 Damage is not enough....you have to 1000 unless you're a noob
And you've to use......and not......and...and...
Why should anyone play a mode which is dictated by other?
Maybe some of you're right....maybe direct fire is the better choice....but its not your call to make the decision for anyone else.
FW = Dictatorchip

[justcallme A S H]

No, it's just what you need if you want to win

PUGs complain about losing - yet won't do anything about the cause - themselves.

Well, that's not entirely true as plenty do improve/learn/listen

Edited by justcallme A S H, 12 September 2016 - 05:58 AM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

You kidding? that's the only time their even remotely useful. Slap a few tubes on all your brawlers and presto, you got something to shoot while you're returning from the drop zone.

[Pat Kell]

Yea but once you get back into the fight, you have nerfed yourself with LRM's...

Hagen von Tronje, on 12 September 2016 - 05:22 AM, said:

And thats it is...thats why FW is no lucky place to be.
You should do....500 Damage is not enough....you have to 1000 unless you're a noob
And you've to use......and not......and...and...
Why should anyone play a mode which is dictated by other?
Maybe some of you're right....maybe direct fire is the better choice....but its not your call to make the decision for anyone else.
FW = Dictatorchip

Dude, whatever...you get the same kind of comments in QP. Boohoo, someone is trying to give me advice and I don't want it!!.

[Baulven]

LRMs are not had under the condition you are setup to use them well. It takes coordinated effort and usually isn't worth the extra effort, but it is useful in certain circumstances like if you have a NARC and can tag some of the opposition's heavy hitters.

I prefer to brawl people in the face myself. LRMs are unsatisfactory for my play style.

[MovinTarget]

Baulven, on 13 September 2016 - 06:57 AM, said:

... if you have a NARC and can tag...

I think the primary contention most people in this thread have is the players that *don't* bring such things... and then proceed to sandbag behind the team because they can't stand out in the open to acquire and track their own target.

If you are bringing your own BAP/CAP, TAG, and/or NARCs and trying to get your own targets, stay with the team, focus on targets that are an immediate threat to your mates/objectives...

I think absolutely zero (or near zero) people here would be complaining.

LRM's are not useless, they just need the right support, and when its coordinated (muliple spotters, good coordination) it can be downright brutal.

It's the solo guys that don't do any of the above that makes some people get irate.

It can be applied to the guys sniping too far back and on low priority targets as well.

Its a mentality issue more than a playstyle issue.

Edited by MovinTarget, 13 September 2016 - 08:10 AM.

[MischiefSC]

MovinTarget, on 13 September 2016 - 07:30 AM, said:

I think the primary contention most people in this thread have is the players that *don't* bring such things... and then proceed to sandbag behind the team because they can't stand out in the open to acquire and track their own target.

If you are bringing your own BAP/CAP, TAG, and/or NARCs and trying to get your own targets, stay with the team, focus on targets that are an immediate threat to your mates/objectives...

I think absolutely zero (or near zero) people here would be complaining.

LRM's are not useless, they just need the right support, and when its coordinated (muliple spotters, good coordination) it can be downright brutal.

It's the solo guys that don't do any of the above that makes some people get irate.

It can be applied to the guys sniping too far back and on low priority targets as well.

Its a mentality issue more than a playstyle issue.

True but if you bring your own narc, tag, etc....

why not just bring a direct fire weapon and get more bang for the buck, better precision on where you're doing the damage and help share armor?

Again part of the issue of why LRMs are bad. For direct fire then direct fire weapons are better. If you're using indirect fire (or poking from very long range for that matter) you're not doing as much for the team as you could. You're padding your own stats at their expense.

There is no good reason to bring LRMs.

[f00lish1]

MischiefSC, on 13 September 2016 - 09:55 AM, said:

....and help share armor?

This is the most important reason why teams with a couple LRMs will always be worse off than teams that try to coordinate their drop decks by engagement range.

Edited by f00lish1, 14 September 2016 - 02:20 PM.

[Pat Kell]

f00lish1, on 14 September 2016 - 02:19 PM, said:

This is the most important reason why teams with a couple LRMs will always be worse off than teams that try to coordinate their drop decks by engagement range.

This guy appears to know what he is talking about. Granted, it's important to do your best to not spread your damage all over a mech but sharing armor AT THE RIGHT TIME is the most valuable thing you can do to help your team win in CW. Claiming LRMS are a good suppression weapon is simply ignoring the fact that dead guys do not need suppressed.

[Commander A9]

I don't know...I think 228 has this LRM thing down pretty nicely.

[Dee Eight]

Well yeah....but they were using IS mechs with missile range perks and modules. The stalker 5M can reach 1250m, a Huggin raven can do 1300m. There are a bunch of others capable of 1200m.

[Pat Kell]

Commander A9, on 15 September 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

I don't know...I think 228 has this LRM thing down pretty nicely.

I don't know, 228 against a random group of 2-4 man groups would of smashed them even more if they had direct fire weapons and you know it as anything that is coordinated can be devastating. We once loaded up a bunch of stormcrows with 13 flamers each (only 13 flamers) and killed 24 mechs (I believe, has been a while so forgive me if it was fewer than that, it was a lot though) before they killed us.

That was a funny video though, thebeef always delivers:)