653 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Jumping Gigolo, on 18 September 2016 - 07:47 AM, said:

hehehe some lurm aficionados here might question the veracity of that quote ;P

It's a real quote from an actual match. Back when APOC was really chugging along in Phase 2, they were traveling around and spent a tour in Davion. It was good fun but that quote was exactly what the pug in question said.

It happens often though on even a moderately good team. Focus fire on called targets, dead before the second or at times even first volley hits.

[Jumping Gigolo]

Here's another of those funny hybrid lurm marauders





enemy wont push inside when the first lance of non-lurmers went in (and die via focus fire). of course the lurmboats and the hybrid lurms apparently stopped moving with them. alpha lance got bored we just pushed out from the other gate and swinged behind these jokers. that marauder had more direct fire weapons and could have been an asset in front but since he got a single LRM15 he choose to stay behind and instead exercised his indirect firing expertise



===

here's another match just ended awhile ago.




we dropped with random 9 pugs, no TS and completely disorganized. just pure wham bam slam game. match was close and they even lead 26-27 before the 3rd wave started. 8 mins left it was 39-39 deadlock then they just collapsed because all that was left in the enemy team is a sniping 2x Gauss Jager and 2x lurmer: a lurm griffin and a lurm catapult. too bad the 2x Gauss Jager was not able to deal considerable damage to me while the lurm griffin and lurm catapult was courageously brawling against me.... i blame the gauss jager he cost them the game. if only he was a LRM Jager....

Edited by Jumping Gigolo, 18 September 2016 - 07:51 PM.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

I know I posted this somewhere else, but

LRM Griffins?

[The Shredder]

Gotta love it when somebody starts a post with the sole intention of telling everyone else how they should play.

ANY weapon can be added to the "DO NOT BRING" list, depending on how the player uses it. A player should bring the weapons they are best at using.

For LRMs, standing behind cover, asking everyone else to do the hard work, etc, is NOT the best way to use them. If that is how you are using LRMs, than you aren't good with them, and should try something else.

I know folks with lower-performance systems tend to use LRMs, as they are a little more lag-proof than other weapons. Most of the time, these people have adjusted to use them effectively, and don't bother team-mates.

I run 1-2 LRM centered 'Mechs in my drop deck. They have other weapons. I never ask anyone for locks, and typically deal more damage with them than with direct-fire weapons. I'm never the last in the wave to die, nor the first, unless the enemy is spawn-camping. I've never had a single person give me a hard time for bring missiles. They are useful for suppression-fire, poke holes in a target that may otherwise be blocked by friendlies, and can be an effective way to bring down those face-hugging Kodiaks.

If you are losing a lot of matches, maybe it isn't the fault of your team-mates? I'm rather tired of seeing folks die, then spend the rest of the match berating everyone else for being losers. It doesn't work like that.

People will do dumb/amateur things in PUG matches. That's the nature of the beast. Rather than giving iron decrees, try to be a better leader. THIS DOESN'T MEANT PUT-DOWNS AND SHAMING.

At the end of the day, I play what is most fun for ME. I find team-work to be fun. I also like my LRMs. I'm playing a game, not a spreadsheet. I don't care what your math says. Sure, SRMs MIGHT mean better damage, but if I'm only hitting with 30% of my missile capacity in SRMs, and am hitting with 80+% with my LRMs, well... you do the math.

[MovinTarget]

This may all be moot come the era of ED. Gone will be the days of the LRM 60/70/80/100 alpha strike... you'll have to chain fire things, giving (intelligent) opponents time to get to cover before they bear the brunt of your volley.

I started getting suspicious when they started buffing LRMs on the PTS, but I suppose its to make up for what ED will do to them.

Maybe it won't change anything, good players will figure out how to make their options work best for them, players that can only boat lurms (pc limitations, etc) or choose to boat them and nothing else will have to adapt or they may be out of a playstyle.

[Kroete]

Jumping Gigolo, on 18 September 2016 - 08:08 AM, said:

question to the non-lurmers:

1.) How many times have you seen a lurm player (either from your team or the enemy) is the last man remaining..with 2-3 more mechs remaining when everyone is already permadead?

2.) Have you been in very close Counter-attack/Hold drops where the score is like 46-46 or 47-47. How will the match probably end if the last guy/s in your team is/are 2x lurmers when the remaining enemy/enemies are brawlers?

1: Most time ts a ll "sniper", not a lrm-user.
2. Depends on the enemy and the player

Maybe iam more dumb then brave, but most time my dog is in the first row and iam playing a little to agressive for lrms.
In the last event i was often leading the rush with it, because a lot of cowards.

Using lrms is not because of a bad rig, its ok for mwo (and great for most other games!),
but some health problems (after a stroke i still work on an aphasie and have sometimes a little cloudy sight)
and the challenge, if my sight is clear, point and click alphavomit is boring over time and too easy.
If i want that type of game i could also play "moorhuhn".

[Dee Eight]

Keshav Murali, on 18 September 2016 - 03:57 PM, said:

LRM Griffins?

The 2N ECM model is the preferred one for that. You can do them as all LRM5s and shoot in pairs to avoid ghost heat, chain fire them, or do three 5s and an SRM launcher. With JJ and dark camo, you can blend in among trees or a shadow someplace and snipe at targets. I run mine with an ERLL & TAG. On river city or crimson tide, night time, find a nice high building to perch from.

[Tesunie]

Kael Posavatz, on 17 September 2016 - 09:05 PM, said:

Instead they will go 'Oh look, a missile boat, I'm gonaa kill it', at which point you are swiftly down a mech and not particularly helpful to your team at all.

I actually tend to use this to my advantage. Throw a few LRMs out, and I have people charging me. Then, they fall into my teammates (if they are nearby, which they should be unless they ditched me when I wasn't looking) and into my direct fire weapons.

LRMs can be used as a lure, among other tactics. I also find LRMs to be very helpful as an approach weapon. As I close into direct line of sight, I have LRMs that can support an ally. I kinda believe in the statement "you should never be alone", and this doesn't always mean "bring a friend". With LRMs, I can be some distance away sometimes and you still aren't "alone" because I can help.

It's all in how you use them really, and what you expect to get out of them.

Jumping Gigolo, on 18 September 2016 - 07:47 AM, said:

"Guys why the f**k are we pushing out?" - says the untouched LRM maddog who clearly have no idea why you need to push out with your 1st wave damaged mechs when you got a big kill lead in Hold mode.

For the record, I'm not impressed with you quoting some players in game, and then seeming to think that is the best LRM users have to offer. You keep quoting people and situations that show a real lack of skill with the game and tactics.

I could provide screens of great matches to prove my point, and it would be as meaningless as a screen of a bad match or a quote from someone complaining.

So, please. Stop. Your stupid quotes of what people have said in match are irrelevant to this discussion. Besides to troll and try to get some people angry. Your pseudo events or even real events of how bad some people play has no relevance to this thread either. Otherwise, I could regal you on the players with small lasers who are trying to snipe at 1000+ m away... Must mean small lasers are bad, right?

Jumping Gigolo, on 18 September 2016 - 08:08 AM, said:

question to the non-lurmers:

1.) How many times have you seen a lurm player (either from your team or the enemy) is the last man remaining..with 2-3 more mechs remaining when everyone is already permadead?

2.) Have you been in very close Counter-attack/Hold drops where the score is like 46-46 or 47-47. How will the match probably end if the last guy/s in your team is/are 2x lurmers when the remaining enemy/enemies are brawlers?

I am an LRM user here, but I'll take a wack at it.
1. I've seen it, and shaken my head at their LRM bloated builds. Not a single backup weapon, or an assault with a single MPL. I don't mind LRMs, but hiding in the back and begging for locks is the least practical and least effective way to use LRMs.There are other, far better, ways of using LRMs. Then again, the SPL users who snipe at 1000+ m...

2. Actually... no. I can't really recall being in a match that close before. Especially if we have dedicated boats sitting far away from the team begging for locks (and in my opinion not utilizing their mechs nor their LRMs to the best capability that they can be used in). They are often too far away, and don't have enough of an impact to let the game be close. Now if they had diverse their build, or even just was 100- m away from the fight they could have done a lot better and maybe...


I will say I have seen an LRM boat win a close QP match before, due to cleaver positioning, movement, and great use of getting their own locks... Then again I've also recently saw a match where I observed a Cat with 5 LRM5s and a single SRM6 be the last mech alive because... He wasn't using his build very well. He kept shooting buildings with his LRMs, instead of the target out in the open. He kept shooting his LRMs within 180m (until I informed him it was doing no damage within that range). And, he didn't support his two remaining allies and instead went after a target on his own... getting too close and having to rely completely on his single SRM6, against an LRM Stalker with 4 med lasers and I think some SRMs as well...

It's all in how you use it. Like any weapon, there are ways to use them, and ways to not use them. Sniping with small lasers? Seen it happen. It does not confirm any arguments to how horrible small lasers are, nor direct fire weapons.

AKA: Just because people are using the weapon poorly doesn't confirm that the weapon is good nor bad.

Jumping Gigolo, on 18 September 2016 - 11:58 AM, said:

Just stop whining in-game and blaming your teammates (especialy if they dont survive enough to hold locks for you). Just quitely lurm and if you get roflpugstomped just keep quiet during the feed frenzy.

Say this to the non-LRM users too then. I've seen them tell me how much the team was a failure and how we all where "idiots"... When he charged by himself and died very painfully and quick.

Your argument is sorta invalid. The insults get tossed both ways here, but a lot of people.

So:
"Just stop whining in-game and blaming your teammates (...). Just quitely lurm/Laser/Gauss/Ballistic/SURM and if you get roflpugstomped just keep quiet during the feed frenzy. "

MischiefSC, on 17 September 2016 - 08:32 PM, said:

I'll never forget the quote. I was dropping with 9 other people in a good premade team, one of the pugs had an LRM boat.

'You're killing them so fast most of them are dead before my LRMs even get there!'

I've heard that line with non-LRMs. "You killed them so fast, I couldn't even get line of sight!" So... It's not just with LRMs, and if their LRMs took that long to get there, they probably where too far back...





I'm gonna reinforce what Moving Target said before... "Can this thread just die already?" The arguments are starting to fall into troll territory...

[MovinTarget]

For the record, I liked that post before I saw he mentioned me!

[Jumping Gigolo]

Today we saw lots of these:




and these...



what happened next is:

[Jumping Gigolo]

@Tesunie - this thread actually died last Aug 23 and the thread won in favor of the lurmers. Then some lurm guy named Prussain Havoc resurrected this thread again last Sept 11.

Why must a lurm guy again resurrect this thread again when we, the close-minded direct fire people, whom others claim don't know how good lurms can be, have already yielded with the power of the lurms and has accepted them wholeheartly?

[MovinTarget]

Jumping Gigolo, on 19 September 2016 - 01:31 PM, said:

@Tesunie - this thread actually died last Aug 23 and the thread won in favor of the lurmers. Then some lurm guy named Prussain Havoc resurrected this thread again last Sept 11.

Why must a lurm guy again resurrect this thread again when we, the close-minded direct fire people, whom others claim don't know how good lurms can be, have already yielded with the power of the lurms and has accepted them wholeheartly?

I, for one welcome our Lurm Overlords...

I won't touch them with a 10 foot pole unless my DC says to do so... but more power to ya.

Jumping Gigolo, on 19 September 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

Today we saw lots of these:




and these...



what happened next is:

Missing the point a bit since these have non-LRM weapons... i.e. hard to rage too much when they at least have backup weapons... as to their piloting skill, don't know them, ain't judgin'

Edited by MovinTarget, 19 September 2016 - 04:14 PM.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

Dee Eight, on 19 September 2016 - 08:00 AM, said:

The 2N ECM model is the preferred one for that.

Using the strongest medium brawler in the game as a LRM boat is adding insult to injury.

To me, using the 2N as a LRM boat is nothing better than a HBR LRM boat or a DDC LRM boat. A mockery of what it could have been.

I know you will never agree on this, but whatever.

[MovinTarget]

Keshav Murali, on 19 September 2016 - 06:12 PM, said:

Using the strongest medium brawler in the game as a LRM boat is adding insult to injury.

To me, using the 2N as a LRM boat is nothing better than a HBR LRM boat or a DDC LRM boat. A mockery of what it could have been.

I know you will never agree on this, but whatever.

Yup and that's the thing that's great, we can all have different opinions. Some of us are looking for builds to accomplish a certain niche task while someone else will kit it out to be a dependable all around performer. Others will use the same variant for high risk/high rewards gambits. And then, others will assert that a completely different variant is "the strongest brawler in the game"...

*ahem*

<cough>3M<cough>

But we all have opinions, which is what's awesome

Edited by MovinTarget, 19 September 2016 - 06:40 PM.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

I meant Griffins in general. 3M IS the strongest, no doubt. Still see as many 4LRM5 3Ms as 4LRM5 2Ns.

[MovinTarget]

For scouting it rocks with 4 SRM4s a 350XL and a flamer in the arm....

[Dee Eight]

Keshav Murali, on 19 September 2016 - 06:12 PM, said:

Using the strongest medium brawler in the game as a LRM boat is adding insult to injury.

To me, using the 2N as a LRM boat is nothing better than a HBR LRM boat or a DDC LRM boat. A mockery of what it could have been.

I know you will never agree on this, but whatever.

Well since I don't agree with griffins as being the best medium anything, nope not gonna agree on the ECM model being the best medium brawler. While one of mine IS built around 4xSRM6s as the principal damage source, I find for close up brawling the HBK-4SP or VND-1X to be my two faves on the inner sphere side.

[Requiemking]

Jumping Gigolo, on 19 September 2016 - 01:31 PM, said:

@Tesunie - this thread actually died last Aug 23 and the thread won in favor of the lurmers. Then some lurm guy named Prussain Havoc resurrected this thread again last Sept 11.

Why must a lurm guy again resurrect this thread again when we, the close-minded direct fire people, whom others claim don't know how good lurms can be, have already yielded with the power of the lurms and has accepted them wholeheartly?

Coincidentally, the person who originally started this thread happens to be my unit CO........

[Jingseng]

Someone said that to me recently, "never LRMs in FP".

IIRC, he died shortly thereafter from LRMS on the other side. Certainly others did.

[Pat Kell]

Jingseng, on 19 September 2016 - 08:45 PM, said:

Someone said that to me recently, "never LRMs in FP".

IIRC, he died shortly thereafter from LRMS on the other side. Certainly others did.

LRM's can kill you, there is no doubt but any somewhat experienced player is very adept at minimizing their damage through cover and breaking line of sight, watching for UAV's and lights/spotters etc. It's not that they can't do damage or even a lot of damage or that they aren't viable weapons in some situations, I am just contending that there is almost always a better option for people to take. Not telling people they have too or that they should use direct fire weapons...just pointing out that there are usually better options out there and if you like winning a lot you may want to consider looking into those options. But then again, if you prefer running solo, it probably doesn't matter because LRM's, direct fire, flamers, they all make no difference when it comes to team work. Do whatever you like as long as you don't blame me for the results (this happens more than people would believe). That's not directed at you btw Jinseng, just a general statement to all the people out there who like to blame units for ruining CW while bringing LRM boats, sniper builds, dropping solo etc etc etc. Game doesn't go their way and it's all "no wonder people don't play this ****." and " Thanks for ruining CW." It's kind of sad and pathetic.