198 replies to this topic

[Tordin]

Thunder Child, on 05 May 2016 - 04:50 PM, said:

Well, I suppose we got the Master Chief Look alike with the PH, which is one of the two OTHER Space Marines.
Now all we need is one that looks like an Ultramarine. Or a Grey Knight.
Then we can has ALL TEH SPES MAHREENS!

Also dont forget the Black Knight, at least the Resistance version. Kinda space marinish about the head section too

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

This is the much needed release for Clanners in terms of CW and we need one of each class. We're simply out gunned at the moment for heavies mainly due to the weapons we have. The ER meds are uselessly inefficient (so over nerfed for beamtime and heat). ER large beamtimes are just diabolical. Large/med Pulses are great but the heat again is just infeasible. Seems clan ER PPC and sml lasers (both types) are the best way to go that I've found. Unless the standard autocannons can be shortened to single bullets its just not worth taking them. UAC's jam like anything without the -30% chance. Struggling to find combinations that can try and handle a wave of IS blasters.

[Odanan]

Pariah Devalis, on 06 May 2016 - 05:48 AM, said:

Actually:

• the Nova Cat has a 6M 2E configuration. It does missiles just fine, better even than the Night Gyr, and actually has the critical slots to give everything artemis.
  
• True, but it can still take 7 energy weapons, which is more than enough
  
• True, but it does still retain side torso energy slots
  
• Normal armor is a perk given it translates to more free internal critical space which leads to...
  
• The Nova Cat actually has free room to install DHS necessary to boat energy

The Night Gyr is too critical slot limited to ever be as good as an energy boat as the Nova Cat. By comparison, you can fit the Nova Cat's Prime loadout of 2 ERPPC and 3 ERLLas with 26 DHS and still have 2 crit slots left over by shaving one ton of armor off, which is fine since the mech only starts half a ton under-armored. The Night Gyr, trying to use the same configuration, can only fit 21 DHS before it runs out of place to stick 2-crit DHS.

We have place for both the Night Gyr and his younger brother (or sister?) Nova Cat. This is good, considering there aren't many Clan heavy omnimechs in the next 20 years...

[Roadkill]

Dee Eight, on 06 May 2016 - 12:44 AM, said:

Because battletech had a different and yet totally logical heat scale system, there was never a concern by its writers about "meta" builds with DPS ratings and so forth to chase after. Nobody was going to run a direstar in battletech even though they could, because firing them all, wouldn't guarantee a full strike pinpoint auto-kill because there was no automatic convergence of all weapons, and the heat scale as it was, meant it would take a full six rounds of turns to cool the mech down to attempt a re-start of the fusion engine after doing it.

Sure we did. One of my most effective customs was a 5/8 80-ton Clan Assault running 8 MPL and a Targeting Computer. If I got within 5 hexes (I think, it's been a while), I could easily execute Called Shots. This was during the Rules of Warfare era... as I recall this was made more difficult once Total Warfare was released.

But regardless, "meta" Mechs absolutely do exist in TT if your group allows the use of the Mech construction rules.

[AngrySpartan]

The Unstoppable Puggernaut, on 06 May 2016 - 09:21 AM, said:

This is the much needed release for Clanners in terms of CW and we need one of each class. We're simply out gunned at the moment for heavies mainly due to the weapons we have. The ER meds are uselessly inefficient (so over nerfed for beamtime and heat). ER large beamtimes are just diabolical. Large/med Pulses are great but the heat again is just infeasible. Seems clan ER PPC and sml lasers (both types) are the best way to go that I've found. Unless the standard autocannons can be shortened to single bullets its just not worth taking them. UAC's jam like anything without the -30% chance. Struggling to find combinations that can try and handle a wave of IS blasters.

You're a clanner! You should overcome every obstacle those dezgra from tech department throw on you!

Being serious I tend to agree. Thing is almost every game ends in a brawl, where 1.5x IS structure quirks combined with short beam duration makes many IS chassis superior to it's clan counterpart. XLd engines is the only advantage left for clans now.

Current maps does not allow to keep distance from IS to prevent brawl (except Polar and maybe Alpine).

Edited by AngrySpartan, 06 May 2016 - 10:40 AM.

[Odanan]

Roadkill, on 06 May 2016 - 10:11 AM, said:

Sure we did. One of my most effective customs was a 5/8 80-ton Clan Assault running 8 MPL and a Targeting Computer. If I got within 5 hexes (I think, it's been a while), I could easily execute Called Shots. This was during the Rules of Warfare era... as I recall this was made more difficult once Total Warfare was released.

But regardless, "meta" Mechs absolutely do exist in TT if your group allows the use of the Mech construction rules.

Targeting Computer is the most ridiculous piece of technology in the TT. It simply breaks the game.

And people complain about weapon balance in MWO... TT is much worst.
AC5 and AC2? Useless. Really.
IS medium lasers? Boat them and kill everybody.

[Roadkill]

Odanan, on 06 May 2016 - 10:46 AM, said:

Targeting Computer is the most ridiculous piece of technology in the TT. It simply breaks the game.

So do pulse lasers, really. That -2 hit modifier is huge in an average game.

[NocturnalBeast]

Nightshade24, on 05 May 2016 - 11:51 PM, said:

Why not?

Because piloting any Mech other than an OmniMech would be shameful and a sign of failure for a Clan Warrior.

[Nightshade24]

Ed Steele, on 06 May 2016 - 03:27 PM, said:

Because piloting any Mech other than an OmniMech would be shameful and a sign of failure for a Clan Warrior.

R.I.P. Kodiak, Atlas, Atlas II, Grizzly, Orion,and Orion IIC pilots.
Even when piloting the very representation of your clan, or the most holy, honored, decorated, and sacred mechs you are still a sign of failure and are shamed.

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 06 May 2016 - 08:03 AM, said:

Don't care. Nova Cat still better

Yes, it's better becuase all enemies it'll face will have an easier time killing it then if it was a Night Gyr.
Better C-bills for me on the other side o7

[NocturnalBeast]

Nightshade24, on 06 May 2016 - 04:34 PM, said:

R.I.P. Kodiak, Atlas, Atlas II, Grizzly, Orion,and Orion IIC pilots.
Even when piloting the very representation of your clan, or the most holy, honored, decorated, and sacred mechs you are still a sign of failure and are shamed.


Yes, it's better becuase all enemies it'll face will have an easier time killing it then if it was a Night Gyr.
Better C-bills for me on the other side o7

Well, I agree that Totem Mechs are probably the exception.

Edited by Ed Steele, 06 May 2016 - 05:08 PM.

[Nightshade24]

Ed Steele, on 06 May 2016 - 05:08 PM, said:

Well, I agree that Totem Mechs are probably the exception.

and what of the Atlas and Orions for example? from memory these are not Totem mechs...

Also what about post 3000's battlemechs? Or the famous Mad Cat mk II?..

Or those who just can't get enough of their IS mechs like a certain famous Wolfhound [later refitted into a IIC]

[Nightshade24]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 06 May 2016 - 08:29 PM, said:

Yes but it won't look like it is ripping off Warhammer 40k and StarCraft... this new Night Gyr = Terran Marine... like I doubt it even has passed the 15% difference requirement.

Night gyr came before Terran Marines.

If anything, Terran marines look like Night Gyrs.
The same way how Oreo ripped of Hydrox.

You can't say something is a rip off from something else if that something else came after the first thing. Also the it's most likely a 70% difference.

First of:

Night Gyr Concept art:

Night Gyr TT:

Night Gyr MW: O


Nova Cat:


Terran Marine (Star Craft)

Space Marine (Warhammer 40k):





Through Concept, TT, and MW: O, the shoulders, head ,centre torso, waist, side torso, etc are nearly identical but with refinement. Only difference is the arm (mainly ballistic arm) and legs but shape is still in order...

now lets look at the Star Craft marine. It has it's shoulder cauldron more disconnected (like the Nova Cat), Arms come out right after the pouldron is out of the way (just like the Nova Cat). Chest is more puffed out and then cuts back down (like the Nova Cat). The Knee caps are more rectangular or hexagonal (like the nova cat).
Most of this also applies to the Warhammer 40k marine besides the kneecap which for once is more similar to the Night Gyr.
However the helmet for the Star craft one is more similar to the NIght Gyr...


But between the marines and mechs the biggest differences is the fact the mechs are covered with exhausts, entakes, sections for bullets to come out. The raw fact there is weapons literally coming out of the chassis while the marines hold weapons, etc, etc, etc...

Nova cat is more similar to a Night Gyr then any of the marines... and if anything the Nova Cat has more resembulances with the marines when looking at sections and features.


The funny part is the that the new Night Gyr looks nearly identical to the original, besides the fact the original had a huge arse gun for one arm in the TRO art as well as had slightly different legs but overall that makes the NIght Gyr the least 'evolved' mech in terms of art... the other is the Catapult.

The other thing is the Night Gyr came first. It was first in the TRO that had the Night Gyr came like what was it, 7 or 8 years before Star craft. (Warhammer came a bit earlier but I do not think the art it had for their marines even resembled the current form the current sort of...

Even then... the fact that there is so many space marines and similar stuff and most look nearly identical to the SC and Warhammer ones that it's not even funny....

Technical Readout: 3058 (first Night Gyr goodies): 1995
Star Craft (1): 31st of March, 1998. (is the latest of the 4)
War Hammer 40K: 1987
Fallout 1: 30th of September, 1997

[Odanan]

Nightshade24, on 06 May 2016 - 09:23 PM, said:

Night gyr came before Terran Marines.

If anything, Terran marines look like Night Gyrs.
The same way how Oreo ripped of Hydrox.

You can't say something is a rip off from something else if that something else came after the first thing. Also the it's most likely a 70% difference.

First of:

Night Gyr Concept art:

Night Gyr TT:

Night Gyr MW: O


Nova Cat:


Terran Marine (Star Craft)

Space Marine (Warhammer 40k):





Through Concept, TT, and MW: O, the shoulders, head ,centre torso, waist, side torso, etc are nearly identical but with refinement. Only difference is the arm (mainly ballistic arm) and legs but shape is still in order...

now lets look at the Star Craft marine. It has it's shoulder cauldron more disconnected (like the Nova Cat), Arms come out right after the pouldron is out of the way (just like the Nova Cat). Chest is more puffed out and then cuts back down (like the Nova Cat). The Knee caps are more rectangular or hexagonal (like the nova cat).
Most of this also applies to the Warhammer 40k marine besides the kneecap which for once is more similar to the Night Gyr.
However the helmet for the Star craft one is more similar to the NIght Gyr...


But between the marines and mechs the biggest differences is the fact the mechs are covered with exhausts, entakes, sections for bullets to come out. The raw fact there is weapons literally coming out of the chassis while the marines hold weapons, etc, etc, etc...

Nova cat is more similar to a Night Gyr then any of the marines... and if anything the Nova Cat has more resembulances with the marines when looking at sections and features.


The funny part is the that the new Night Gyr looks nearly identical to the original, besides the fact the original had a huge arse gun for one arm in the TRO art as well as had slightly different legs but overall that makes the NIght Gyr the least 'evolved' mech in terms of art... the other is the Catapult.

The other thing is the Night Gyr came first. It was first in the TRO that had the Night Gyr came like what was it, 7 or 8 years before Star craft. (Warhammer came a bit earlier but I do not think the art it had for their marines even resembled the current form the current sort of...

Even then... the fact that there is so many space marines and similar stuff and most look nearly identical to the SC and Warhammer ones that it's not even funny....

Technical Readout: 3058 (first Night Gyr goodies): 1995
Star Craft (1): 31st of March, 1998. (is the latest of the 4)
War Hammer 40K: 1987
Fallout 1: 30th of September, 1997

This! ^

BTW, I'm looking forward for the MWO's Nova Cat, when it comes (might take ~2 years). This is one of those very few mechs that don't need to be any different from the concept art.

[Undercover Brother]

I guess this means the Nova Cat is a good year out...Can't use 80% of the same model render that soon.

Reverse-cant the ankles, replace the right arm with 3 energy hardpoints, then take 5 tons off the weight- BOOM! Nova Cat.

[Odanan]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 07 May 2016 - 05:06 AM, said:

See and this is why I said THE NEW DESIGN. Also Warhammer 40k has been around long before Night Gyr.

Warhammer 40k started in 1987. Either way the Night Gyr looks like a rip off.

The NEW DESIGN looks like nothing but a plagiarized piece to me. Also even if Nova Cat looks more like it, it still proves my point that FASA artists must have been Damon lazy and enjoyed lawsuits against them. Cause they sure love ripping off any mecha franchise they can get.

Night Gyr (original art or MWO's) doesn't look like the WH40K Space Marine. If you think it is a rip off, every futurist game with power armor also is.

[Nightshade24]

Odanan, on 07 May 2016 - 02:56 AM, said:

BTW, I'm looking forward for the MWO's Nova Cat, when it comes (might take ~2 years). This is one of those very few mechs that don't need to be any different from the concept art.

That's Mechwarrior 4 for ya. the Redesigns look amazing and the original designs (thanatos, argus, uziel, etc!) are perfect...
The only problem is when they completely butcher a mech and makes it impossible for MW: O to add because you can't jsut go off and call this a Wolverine IIC...

T Decker, on 07 May 2016 - 03:08 AM, said:

I guess this means the Nova Cat is a good year out...Can't use 80% of the same model render that soon.

Reverse-cant the ankles, replace the right arm with 3 energy hardpoints, then take 5 tons off the weight- BOOM! Nova Cat.

If it is added on the correct year which is 3059, the current year is 3052 to give you an idea but Russ is already looking at 3053... this could be perhaps that mechs that are from 3053 will need to be developed and will come out in 2016 (3053) when they are ready as development is not instantaneous.
we are looking at say... 6-7 years until the Nova Cat is added.

Assuming no time jumps occur (which there is no need to atm or soon). At best I think maybe 3 years from now or 4 years from now we may see it unless PGI decides to split CW into half and make a 3050 and 3060 CW with limited mech selections which as we know adding more buckets and rushing things for the same of rushing is a bad idea.

Just because the Night Gyr is similar to the Nova doesn't mean the Nova will be added...
if so I think a lot more people would want a...

Timberwolf mk II, III, IV, Mad Dog II, III, IV, kodiak II, Shadowcat II, Stalker II, Atlas II etc now or things in timeline: Locust IIC, Warhammer iIC, Marauder iIC, Rifleman IIC, etc...

Just because they are simular, doesn't mean they will come out sooner... it may just mean it will come out later because who will buy say a nova just after the night gyr just came out... you just sold a similar product.

not saying that I do not want it anytime soon. Nova Cat is personally a mech I quite like but hey MW4 has quite a lot of memories for me... any mech from there is instantly a must-have for me.

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 07 May 2016 - 05:06 AM, said:

See and this is why I said THE NEW DESIGN. Also Warhammer 40k has been around long before Night Gyr.

Warhammer 40k started in 1987. Either way the Night Gyr looks like a rip off.

The NEW DESIGN looks like nothing but a plagiarized piece to me. Also even if Nova Cat looks more like it, it still proves my point that FASA artists must have been Damon lazy and enjoyed lawsuits against them. Cause they sure love ripping off any mecha franchise they can get.

The NEW DESIGN as I stated I think 3 times in that post only changes the arm with the ballistic.

And you can't tell me changing a huge cnanon that could probably shoot a jenner out of it into a triple barreled cannon makes it a rip off of a human being in a suit that holds a gun and not have it in their blood fist.
Warhammer 40k did start in 1987 as I stated (I am starting to think you gave up reading after the images...) but it's artwork is different (and to begin with the latest artworks similarities is only in the knee cap.. that's it and that knee cap design in armour has been around since what... the 1500's?)
In casse yo udo not know...

this is the 1980-1990's Warhammer 40K that apparently the NIght Gyr ripped of according to you...

Not sure about me but they do not look alike what so ever...


FASA does not like ripping things off, ever since t he whole reseen/ unseen kerfuffle they have been extra careful.
Incase you didn't know, in most cases for mechs such as the warhammer, marauder, etc... the mechs originally are designed by an artist neither in harmony gold/ macross/ robotech nor in battletech.
The design was not copyrighted and t he artist gave it out (forgot if he sold it or not but it was basically free for anyone to use and was not copy righted).

Harmony gold copy righted the animation specifically in the anime they had meanwhile battletech were excluded from this because animation copy rights has nothing on 3D static mechs (that yes were very similar but slightly desgined)... but as soon as Battletech started getting more and more popular, the economic Goliath overseas saw that as a threat to their quote and quote: "copy righted goods" and sent in a swarm of lawyers to basically take all the money they can from battletech and make people in there 40's cry themself to sleep up until 2016 when we are now allowed to use most reseen mechs again.
Oh and fun fact... Battletech had the Marauder FIRST between them and the HG...

You can't tell me the NIght Gyr looks anything like the 1980's Marines in Warhammer 40k and Starcraft was not around yet.
Also again I have stated above that even before BT, WH, and SC this type of 'armour' has been around

You know why it's so popular? because just bloody look at it for 5 seconds.

The main identification of these things are the over sized pauldrons (which i should state that particular design in a smaller size has existed for hundreds of years) and the helmets.
Now obviously the helmet besides vague silhouette is completely different from this cockpit but that only applies to Warhammer 40k as the helmet on the Space marines from starcraft is the most stereotypical space helmet out there. I can probably find a spacesuit or sea exploration suit that has an identical helmet... the only significant identifier is the fact it is a bit put-into the suit. But that isn't a revolutionary design change...

That's it, you can't complain the chestplate looks to similar as it's just a bland chest plate. the legs only stretch to as far as being a humanoid leg design as there is no real significant change here besides 40k having a 'tower' or large sections around their legs... Which the Night Gyr has not done.

The overal theme ith these two armours is that it's atrociously scaled... it isn't practical due to how thick and big it is.

And to be quite honest. Samus (which is older then Warhammer40k) is more similar to the Night Gyr due to the arm, helmet, etc.

here the visor is much more simular to the Night Gyr and the big gun-arm is similar to that of the original TRO Night Gyr. Again legs are rather neutral (I seee a theme of legs not mattering...) and the torso surprise surprise is similar. Because it is obviously not a general concept around for hundreds of years and is obviously a recent invention to have a chest plate.

What's next... you going to say that the Atlas is obviously Plaigarised from Disneys "Spooky skary Skeletons"?
In fact, won't you call t he Atlas a copy of the 'space marines' since the night gyr is so obviously a copy?





I was going to list all the mechs that is the tiniest bit 'space-mariney' but even as jest... that basically made me nearly post a pic of every single humanoid mech. Which isn't a big surprise that a humanoid mech looks similar to a humanoid armour.

There are thousands before 40K and SC rather it be film, game, novel, or vaguely history. And there will be thousands after it.


Now, it would be plaigarism if MW: O randomly added a carbon copy of say some of the tau

[Odanan]

Nightshade24, on 07 May 2016 - 06:32 AM, said:

That's Mechwarrior 4 for ya. the Redesigns look amazing and the original designs (thanatos, argus, uziel, etc!) are perfect...
The only problem is when they completely butcher a mech and makes it impossible for MW: O to add because you can't jsut go off and call this a Wolverine IIC...

Such a beautiful mech! Why did MW4 name it Hellhound, God, why?!?

If PGI adds it (and they should, been so important mech), they could add it as a completely separated chassis of the real, humanoid, Wolverine IIC (Conjurer). Just call it Hellhound (instead of Conjurer) and done.

[NocturnalBeast]

Nightshade24, on 06 May 2016 - 06:39 PM, said:

and what of the Atlas and Orions for example? from memory these are not Totem mechs...

Also what about post 3000's battlemechs? Or the famous Mad Cat mk II?..

Or those who just can't get enough of their IS mechs like a certain famous Wolfhound [later refitted into a IIC]

The IIC Mechs were used as second-line garrison Mechs and were usually assigned to older Warriors who had not earned bloodnames, or for dishonored or freeborn warriors (who had not been accepted by the trueborn warriors).

Edited by Ed Steele, 07 May 2016 - 10:30 AM.

[Arkhangel]

Ed Steele, on 07 May 2016 - 10:30 AM, said:

The IIC Mechs were used as second-line garrison Mechs and were usually assigned to older Warriors who had not earned bloodnames, or for dishonored or freeborn warriors (who had not been accepted by the trueborn warriors).

not the Atlas IIC and the Orion IIC though. both were favored mechs of General Kerensky. they're thus actually considered mechs for FAVORED clanners.

honestly, you can't just generalize here. there's plenty of standard battlemechs honored Clanners would use, and even Omnis that were SPECIFICALLY put to Solahma use. so.... yeah.

[AngrySpartan]

Arkhangel, on 07 May 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

not the Atlas IIC and the Orion IIC though. both were favored mechs of General Kerensky. they're thus actually considered mechs for FAVORED clanners.

No such mech as Atlas IIC exist. Nicholas Kerensky piloted a custom Atlas II reequipped with clan grade tech. And at that time there were no omni technology invented yet, so no other choice other that usual battlemechs.

Arkhangel, on 07 May 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

even Omnis that were SPECIFICALLY put to Solahma use. so.... yeah.

Such as?

Can't see how the top notch frontline mechs would be assigned to disgraced solahma warriors. At some garrison forces - yes, might be possible. But for Solahma troops clans would rather supply salvaged IS junk than give them an Omni mechs.

Edited by AngrySpartan, 07 May 2016 - 03:10 PM.