155 replies to this topic

[KodiakGW]

Mystere, on 05 May 2016 - 07:34 AM, said:

I see most close games more as Pyrrhic victories and well executed ambushes resulting in a massacre as good games. It could have been a 12-0 but with most of the other team missing limbs and and close to death. In other words, it is not the final score that defines a good game for me.

Unfortunately, in most cases, the team doing the stomping rarely has more than a handful that are not fresh. Usually means that 4 or more on the losing team did almost no damage before dying. A full Lance of players was ineffective. That is not a good game. Means matchmaker failed to do its job to make even teams. It means matchmaker is acting more like the old Elo system to make a team it thinks can win, and one it thinks will lose. People who post GG in those cases are either insulting the other team, or are not being at all sympathetic to the pissed off CARRY HARDER players on the stomped side. Whenever I'm on the stomping side, I usually post "Another fine Elo mess" to show that I know how the CARRY HARDER players on the other side are feeling. I've been there.

Now, I'm not talking about group queue. Too many variables about mechs and the makeup of the groups. Stomps will happen. But, solo PUG queue should rarely see games like that if it is working correctly. It s not, and I've started recording them for YouTube.

Plus, I feel just the opposite. Close games are more fun for me than stomps. I enjoy the challenge of a good match up.

[Revis Volek]

Kelbor, on 04 May 2016 - 10:30 PM, said:

Hello my fellow Mechwarriors. I thank you for taking some of your time to read this post. I just finished a quick solo queue match that really disturbed me. I found myself on a losing side of a match due to poor coordination and even worse positing. We have all been there and it happens a lot in solo. The problem I see is the poor attitude and insults being flung on VoIP and in game text. I have been in this game for a long time so any criticism I get is probability deserved, but I have often found new players in solo and they little to no idea what they are doing and bitching at them will never help them improve and is likely to scare away what I see as vital to the long term survival to Mechwarrior, New Players.

This negativity is a cancer that is killing off one of our favorite pastimes. We all, including myself, need to stop and really rethink how we represent ourselves in match and try to help the new guy, which is often the quietest ones, improve enough to really start enjoying this game and not rage quit in a couple of hours. That is all. Thank you for your time.

Welcome to the internet.


I can say i hardly ever experience this in this game, what time of day do you play? Around 3:30? when all the kiddies get out of school? I know some other games i play are just trash around those times.

Best to wait until about 8:30 or 9 when all the kiddies have went to bed and you then just have to deal with the occasional troll or know it all.

KodiakGW, on 05 May 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

Unfortunately, in most cases, the team doing the stomping rarely has more than a handful that are not fresh. Usually means that 4 or more on the losing team did almost no damage before dying. A full Lance of players was ineffective. That is not a good game. Means matchmaker failed to do its job to make even teams. It means matchmaker is acting more like the old Elo system to make a team it thinks can win, and one it thinks will lose. People who post GG in those cases are either insulting the other team, or are not being at all sympathetic to the pissed off CARRY HARDER players on the stomped side. Whenever I'm on the stomping side, I usually post "Another fine Elo mess" to show that I know how the CARRY HARDER players on the other side are feeling. I've been there.

Now, I'm not talking about group queue. Too many variables about mechs and the makeup of the groups. Stomps will happen. But, solo PUG queue should rarely see games like that if it is working correctly. It s not, and I've started recording them for YouTube.

Plus, I feel just the opposite. Close games are more fun for me than stomps. I enjoy the challenge of a good match up.

Stomps are an inherent mechanic of non respawn games, its isnt the MM fault every time if any of them. The snowball effect is real in this game. All it takes is an AFK and a guy disco and suddenly its 10v12 from the get go and those peeps even if the reconnect/come back are left with the same thing usually because after 2-4 mins its a 10v12 anyway because two died due to you being out numbered.

So the snowball grows....

[DrxAbstract]

Zuesacoatl, on 04 May 2016 - 11:11 PM, said:

it is bad when it is a known streamer. I am a rather decent player, and had a bad game where i made a dumb mistake and died to an xl check. A whopping 92 dmg to my name, at the end of the match i was told to kill myself. I lawl'd hard on that. The problem is, some people cant deal with idiots like that. They see someone who streams get hostile like that, and they just want to leave. I wish I could name the little derp, he was one of those internet tough guys, and I am sure if he seen this here he would say he would confront me in real life, but we truly know how those guys are in rl, it is fun to be tough online when our call sign shields us from the consequences lol. Those are the people though that new pilots will remember the most. Those are the guys the mods should really go after.

Everyone has bad games. I have a plethora of screenies and vids depicting even the 'best' in MWO getting wiped out with 100 damage on the board... It happens. And... I know a streamer that, while he doesnt treat people that way, is a fitness nut trained in mixed martial arts, judo and a couple others I forget... Definitely not someone you'd like to meet in a dark alley. Then there's always the guy that carries a weapon, so... Not really worth it to be bothered by, or make assumptions about, such people.

Just be excellent to eachother.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Lykaon, on 05 May 2016 - 12:19 AM, said:

Mercilessly pointing out "I told you so" if you did in fact tell them so is constructive if a bit harsh.

I'm bad about this one... especially during close skirmish matches where I keep reminding people that the disarmed mechs can't hurt them and to stop wasting heat and ammo on them. Which they ignore and then we lose.

[TLBFestus]

Well, unlike most of you the group I drop with for fun always call a space a spade and verbally bash the crap out those idiots that don't know what they are doing on the battlefield, wandering around, running into walls, and randomly shooting team mates in the back at the start of the match.These people are concrete evidence of the alarmingly large dilution of the gene pool.

Unfortunately they are, without exception, my own group members and we do our verbal surgery on our own TeamSpeak channel then laugh hysterically at each other.

[Depressing-Fire]

My reflex response after any mach is GG WP deal with it.

[Raso]

Pro tip: Sometimes being very unsportsman like during a match can give you an edge by aggravating the other team. I mean winning is all that matters, right?

(I don't actually believe this nonsense but I've gotten into arguments with some hardcore players of other games about how sportsmanship and not being a jerk is more important than winning. That's not to say you hand victories to people but you don't harass and troll people while tightrope walking a fine line over the official, posted Code of Conduct. And this wasn't from some random, loser with a high ELO or KDR but actual, respected and well known, high tier player. They argue every legal and legitimate advantage you have over an opponent MUST be exploited. As if if the rules of a tournament didn't explicitly ban soccer punching the guy standing next to you then you must do so because suddenly acting with civility is counter intuitive to winning.

It's not a real war. It's not a professional sport. It's a game. Have fun. Be excellent to each other.)

[KodiakGW]

Revis Volek, on 05 May 2016 - 08:43 AM, said:

Stomps are an inherent mechanic of non respawn games, its isnt the MM fault every time if any of them. The snowball effect is real in this game. All it takes is an AFK and a guy disco and suddenly its 10v12 from the get go and those peeps even if the reconnect/come back are left with the same thing usually because after 2-4 mins its a 10v12 anyway because two died due to you being out numbered.

So the snowball grows....

I've heard the snowball argument used many times to justify stomps in solo PUG. Problem is, if the teams are equally matched, 12-0 stomps should never happen. Just means a number more people not ready for their Tier were on one team. People SHOULD know discos have a good chance of reconnecting and should adjust the flow of the game to compensate.

Take for instance this game.



Within the first 3 minutes, my team lost an assault and a heavy, both not doing too much damage. A pretty significant loss. By your definition, the start of a snowball. But, the rest of us pulled together and did not let a snowball happen. It was pretty even for a while, then we turned it around. This was a good game. This is what a properly matched game looks like. The problem is, this is a rarity.

Anybody who put in GG in chat for this, actually meant it. Just asking everyone to know when it is appropriate. In this case, it was. 12-0 rolls, and even up to 12-6 games where only 1/2 the team or less break 150 match score, are not. People are going to be pissed that so many on their side could not do what PGI considers "viably assisting" the match enough to earn rewards in giveaways. Saying GG to them is like slapping them in the face and laughing, even when it is not meant that way.
Only Rick James could get away with doing that... (Yes, I know he is dead)

[Gigashot]

MeiSooHaityu, on 05 May 2016 - 06:26 AM, said:

I don't see how talking about the "gg" acknowledgment at the end of a match is derailing the thread. We are talking about sportsmanship and negative comments and statements towards others in the community. As I see it, this is a good example of that. After all, some see it as a slur while some still see it as a sign of sportsmanship. Either way it carries the themes of this thread as I see it.

Okay fine. Here is the official "gg" guide.

1. "gg" at the end of the match: sportmanlike, a handshake, even if you lost or stomped the other team. like shaking hands at the end of a sports match.
2. "gg ez" : unsportsmanlike, infuriating, saying it was an easy win
3. "gg" before the match is over: unsportsmanlike, whether by losing team/winning team. signifying you are giving up/ taunting the other team that it's over
4. "gg wp" : extra sportmanlike, distinguishing itself from just "gg" to make sure the receiving team knows it's a handshake.
5. "bg" : unsportsmanlike, usually said by the losing team, by a person blaming his or her own teammates for the loss

[crustydog]

o7 - I do that a lot, and I mean it.

I salute the players I can beat, to thank them for their participation. I am grateful to have the match.

I salute the players who beat me, in recognition of their skill. I am grateful for the chance to learn.

[SteelBruiser]

Navid A1, on 05 May 2016 - 05:33 AM, said:

I personally believe that gg, thank you for the match, wp are all insults.
We all know they are an insult... so stop the act please!

I NEVER say gg when i win a game... i just say nj on team chat and that is it.

The fact is, "we" don't "all" know those are considered insults. You may consider them insults but I and some other folks use the terms with friendlier aspects in mind. I for one, never use a compliment to belittle a competitor, especially in an online text where any sense of friendly jest would be lost in the text. But then I grew up when we learned good sportsmanship. Emotionally crushing a competitor after a match was considered unnecessary and in poor taste.

How to handle those with bloated self worth. Well, as kids on the playground, we learned quickly who the bad sports were and would eventually quit letting them play. In the early days of online gaming, once the offender was known and we really didn't want to put up with them, we'd just log out, wait 10 min and log back in hoping not to het stuck with them again.
Today however, being an arrogant, self absorbed braggart is part if the new culture...and not a good part. If one tries to bail on a match to avoid such fools, you end up penalized. You are therefore forced to "tough it out". And if you're in the tough it out mode, your game suffers and the bully gets more energized against you. Doesn't make for a fun game and so one spends more time not playing.

Edited by SteelBruiser, 05 May 2016 - 10:57 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

crustydog, on 05 May 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

o7 - I do that a lot, and I mean it.

I salute the players I can beat, to thank them for their participation. I am grateful to have the match.

I salute the players who beat me, in recognition of their skill. I am grateful for the chance to learn.

+1

Gigashot, on 05 May 2016 - 10:25 AM, said:

Okay fine. Here is the official "gg" guide.

1. "gg" at the end of the match: sportmanlike, a handshake, even if you lost or stomped the other team. like shaking hands at the end of a sports match.
2. "gg ez" : unsportsmanlike, infuriating, saying it was an easy win
3. "gg" before the match is over: unsportsmanlike, whether by losing team/winning team. signifying you are giving up/ taunting the other team that it's over
4. "gg wp" : extra sportmanlike, distinguishing itself from just "gg" to make sure the receiving team knows it's a handshake.
5. "bg" : unsportsmanlike, usually said by the losing team, by a person blaming his or her own teammates for the loss

That's generally a decent guideline IMO. I still tend to salute though.

[wanderer]

Just remember.

GG means "Git Gud.".

It's most easily defined when your team loses 12-0 and has nobody on it that broke double digits but you and you see "GG" show up on the screen.

Were you that bad? Apologize for your performance. You neither were good nor good for anything save target practice, neither contributing to your team or any level of actual competition. I don't really blame you, MWO is designed to march baby seals up the tier ranks until they're ready to be repeatedly clubbed. But if you didn't get at least a = on that loss, you done screwed it up.

Were you that good? Thank them for the game, but don't call them "good" at anything. The bad will take it as an excuse to keep being bad, the actual decent players will have the brain cells to know you're damning them with faint praise.

[Sir Wulfrick]

adamts01, on 05 May 2016 - 12:28 AM, said:

He deserved a kick in the nuts right before his perfectly timed death then followed by a permanent drop to tier 4. Someone like that has no clue and will never learn, back to the underhive with him. There's way too much scrubbery going around lately, if people don't want to be called out on it, they should look in the mirror and take steps to improve. As it's clear PGI won't separate us.

Did you miss out a /s tag on that post? If so, fine. If not, you're part of the problem. Would it really be so very difficult to show a bit of politeness? Encouragement and understanding to new players? YOU were a T5 scrub at one point. We all were. Do you really think that this sort of obnoxious elitism will ever encourage more people to play MWO, so that the game is better financed and we get New Stuff Faster? The more new players are encouraged to rise up the ranks the better the game gets for all of us. Just saying...

[SteelBruiser]

TLBFestus, on 05 May 2016 - 09:47 AM, said:

Well, unlike most of you the group I drop with for fun always call a space a spade and verbally bash the crap out those idiots that don't know what they are doing on the battlefield, wandering around, running into walls, and randomly shooting team mates in the back at the start of the match.These people are concrete evidence of the alarmingly large dilution of the gene pool.

Unfortunately they are, without exception, my own group members and we do our verbal surgery on our own TeamSpeak channel then laugh hysterically at each other.

Two points here, team speak and selected team members, who mostly know each other. With speak, one can sense fun sarcasm in the voice tone and knowing each other allows more latitude for ribbing. In the normal game play, you don't have those to pieces of chemistry and the same comments, especially if typed, take on a whole different meaning. I have been part of a few teamspeak drops and watched the streams where the teams are chatting and the games take on a truly fun atmosphere. And usually, the teams show good sportsmanship at the end, no matter the outcome.

[DrxAbstract]

KodiakGW, on 05 May 2016 - 10:16 AM, said:

I've heard the snowball argument used many times to justify stomps in solo PUG. Problem is, if the teams are equally matched, 12-0 stomps should never happen. Just means a number more people not ready for their Tier were on one team. People SHOULD know discos have a good chance of reconnecting and should adjust the flow of the game to compensate.

Take for instance this game.



Within the first 3 minutes, my team lost an assault and a heavy, both not doing too much damage. A pretty significant loss. By your definition, the start of a snowball. But, the rest of us pulled together and did not let a snowball happen. It was pretty even for a while, then we turned it around. This was a good game. This is what a properly matched game looks like. The problem is, this is a rarity.

Anybody who put in GG in chat for this, actually meant it. Just asking everyone to know when it is appropriate. In this case, it was. 12-0 rolls, and even up to 12-6 games where only 1/2 the team or less break 150 match score, are not. People are going to be pissed that so many on their side could not do what PGI considers "viably assisting" the match enough to earn rewards in giveaways. Saying GG to them is like slapping them in the face and laughing, even when it is not meant that way.
Only Rick James could get away with doing that... (Yes, I know he is dead)

You won because you had PanzerMagier, and that's the only reason... Your team had a clear advantage from the beginning and being down 10-12 was a more even matching.

[Suko]

I won't lie, my friend and I will laugh and insult the hell out of "the bads" in our own TS chat. However, in the game I either say nothing or try my most to be helpful.

"Your LRMs are ineffective at 60m"
"Your small lasers can't hit that target at 1000m"
"Try zooming out....you're making us all sick"

[Chimera_]

Just putting this out there...

Anyone who thinks "GG" is an insult in any context other than clear mockery, IE with other words that make it clearly intended to be so, is wrong. "GG close" is more used as an insult in most cases, but saying "GG" at the end of a game, regardless of outcome, is an old habit common to pretty much every multiplayer game. It's quite literally the same as, say, shaking hands at the end of a sports match.

If you get offended by someone simply saying "GG" at the end of a match you lost, you need to get real and understand they most likely are saying "Hey, thanks for playing". If you're mad you lost that's fine, but put your frustration into something more useful than getting pissed at people who are being courteous.

[Bongo TauKat]

I gg on just about every game even if I was the one who was stomped. I don't see it as an insult or anything of the like. I just simply want the other players to know I am glad we all got to play.

[TwentyOne]

Kelbor, on 04 May 2016 - 10:30 PM, said:

Hello my fellow Mechwarriors. I thank you for taking some of your time to read this post. I just finished a quick solo queue match that really disturbed me. I found myself on a losing side of a match due to poor coordination and even worse positing. We have all been there and it happens a lot in solo. The problem I see is the poor attitude and insults being flung on VoIP and in game text. I have been in this game for a long time so any criticism I get is probability deserved, but I have often found new players in solo and they little to no idea what they are doing and bitching at them will never help them improve and is likely to scare away what I see as vital to the long term survival to Mechwarrior, New Players.

This negativity is a cancer that is killing off one of our favorite pastimes. We all, including myself, need to stop and really rethink how we represent ourselves in match and try to help the new guy, which is often the quietest ones, improve enough to really start enjoying this game and not rage quit in a couple of hours. That is all. Thank you for your time.

Be happy that your team manned up and put their voice on the coms instead of hiding like scared rats refusing to communicate.