155 replies to this topic

[Nightmare1]

MeiSooHaityu, on 05 May 2016 - 05:20 AM, said:

Yeah, if I'm on a team that gets stomped or does the stomping, I just tend to salute instead "<o" over general chat. I normally only use "gg" when the match was close.

It isn't because I feel "gg" should be an insult. I also grew up gaming when people used it as a sign of respect for a well fought match (regardless of outcome). I just am more particular about it now because the community as a whole has become much more divided about it now.

I just figure a salute gets the message across with less confusion about meaning.

BTW, although I dont see "gg" as an insult per se, you cant deny somone saying "gg close" after a stomp is an insult.

Yeah, I'll agree with that. I generally say "gg" after a match, regardless of the outcome, because that's my version of lining up to file past the other team and shake/slap palms. It's just sportsmanship. I may not be happy with the outcome, but it's not worth getting bent out of shape over it. The win was a good game for Red Team, even if not for my team, so I need to respect that, congratulate them, and move on to the next drop. It always bugs me when folks who lack sportsmanship start fussing, whining, and blaming though. Whatever happened to sportsmanlike conduct and accountability?

[Chimera_]

Nightmare1, on 05 May 2016 - 12:05 PM, said:

Yeah, I'll agree with that. I generally say "gg" after a match, regardless of the outcome, because that's my version of lining up to file past the other team and shake/slap palms. It's just sportsmanship. I may not be happy with the outcome, but it's not worth getting bent out of shape over it. The win was a good game for Red Team, even if not for my team, so I need to respect that, congratulate them, and move on to the next drop. It always bugs me when folks who lack sportsmanship start fussing, whining, and blaming though. Whatever happened to sportsmanlike conduct and accountability?

The way some people react you'd think you just said "GG" after killing their pets and catching their houses on fire. I think sometimes people lose the idea that this is a game, where everyone is here to have fun fighting each other.

[Revis Volek]

wanderer, on 05 May 2016 - 11:03 AM, said:

Just remember.

GG means "Git Gud.".

It's most easily defined when your team loses 12-0 and has nobody on it that broke double digits but you and you see "GG" show up on the screen.

Were you that bad? Apologize for your performance. You neither were good nor good for anything save target practice, neither contributing to your team or any level of actual competition. I don't really blame you, MWO is designed to march baby seals up the tier ranks until they're ready to be repeatedly clubbed. But if you didn't get at least a = on that loss, you done screwed it up.

Were you that good? Thank them for the game, but don't call them "good" at anything. The bad will take it as an excuse to keep being bad, the actual decent players will have the brain cells to know you're damning them with faint praise.

No it doesnt...

GG means GOOD GAME, has since i was a tyke playing Baseball and Soccer.

[Suko]

Chimera11, on 05 May 2016 - 12:13 PM, said:

The way some people react you'd think you just said "GG" after killing their pets and catching their houses on fire. I think sometimes people lose the idea that this is a game, where everyone is here to have fun fighting each other.

I find it amusing that some people (I assume yourself included) cannot fathom that "GG" can be considered an insult after being dominated in a match. GG on the internet went down hill with StarCraft in the early 2000's. GG was used by the would-be victor to signal to his opponent that he wrecked his face and he should just surrender now and save everyone the time of dragging out the last two minutes of cleanup. Not unlike saying "Checkmate" in chess.

So, some players (myself included) do NOT say GG when stomping the other guys. I just keep quite or say "Thanks for the match". I've made this "GG" argument dozens of time and the old farts who like to slap bums will no doubt come out to tell me how terrible a human I am because "it's good sportsmanship". But the reality is, when I stomp a team, I take far more effort to show my opponents how I actually feel by writing a full sentence to them instead of simply condensing it all down to "GG" and assuming they won't take it as an insult (which many people do, regardless of how YOU feel about it).

By your own argument, charged racial terms would be fair use because the user does not see it as offensive. Obviously some (probably most) do find it offensive. Do they just need to quit whining and suck it up? This was the argument made by many in the 1960's. The moral of the story is get with the times. This isn't baseball, this is internet gaming. GG has a completely different context here than you think it does.

If you say "GG" to me after a 12-0 stomp, I assume two things:
1) You're a douche.
2) You are absolutely oblivious to other people's feelings.

Edited by Suko, 05 May 2016 - 12:52 PM.

[Texas Merc]

No GGCLOSE?

Thread does not deliver.

[Gamuray]

Widowmaker1981, on 05 May 2016 - 03:32 AM, said:

No matchmaker can be perfect all the time, and its dumb to expect it to be.

For example, most of the time i am a fairly good player and contribute well in T1 matches. Sometimes though, i come back from the pub/a club and im seeing double and try to play MWO. Its always a bad idea, i do awfully.. should the MM somehow know that? No, it cannot. Just like it cannot know if someone is getting distracted by their cat walking on their keyboard, or any number of other real life issues..

Actually, to be fair, that can be solved. They have devices that can read your actions and face and determine if you're drunk or tired. That would, however, be on YOUR end to use it.

[Chimera_]

Suko, on 05 May 2016 - 12:50 PM, said:

*snipped paragraphs*
If you say "GG" to me after a 12-0 stomp, I assume two things:
1) You're a douche.
2) You are absolutely oblivious to other people's feelings.

If you assume a meaning that isn't accurate to my intentions, that's on you for being presumptuous. Also, comparing "GG" to racial slurs is either over-inflating the impact of "GG" or undermining the real effects racial slurs can have.

I say GG as a hand shake. If you want to slap my hand away and spit on my face, I'll take that and simply consider you a grumpy and/or inflammatory individual.

I have nothing more to say on this issue. If you continue to think the way you do, just be aware that you are making toxic presumptions against many people that simply don't mean what you think they do.

If you assume I have hurtful intent when I say "GG", I assume two things:
1) You're the kind of person to rage at other people for being courteous, with no good cause or reason to assume malicious intent.
2) You are absolutely oblivious to the vast majority of peoples' use of a word.

Edited by Chimera11, 05 May 2016 - 03:03 PM.

[Revis Volek]

KodiakGW, on 05 May 2016 - 10:16 AM, said:

I've heard the snowball argument used many times to justify stomps in solo PUG. Problem is, if the teams are equally matched, 12-0 stomps should never happen. Just means a number more people not ready for their Tier were on one team. People SHOULD know discos have a good chance of reconnecting and should adjust the flow of the game to compensate.

Take for instance this game.



Within the first 3 minutes, my team lost an assault and a heavy, both not doing too much damage. A pretty significant loss. By your definition, the start of a snowball. But, the rest of us pulled together and did not let a snowball happen. It was pretty even for a while, then we turned it around. This was a good game. This is what a properly matched game looks like. The problem is, this is a rarity.

Anybody who put in GG in chat for this, actually meant it. Just asking everyone to know when it is appropriate. In this case, it was. 12-0 rolls, and even up to 12-6 games where only 1/2 the team or less break 150 match score, are not. People are going to be pissed that so many on their side could not do what PGI considers "viably assisting" the match enough to earn rewards in giveaways. Saying GG to them is like slapping them in the face and laughing, even when it is not meant that way.
Only Rick James could get away with doing that... (Yes, I know he is dead)

100% false, games with different MM have the exact same issue, single respawn games i should say.

Its a inherent mechanic of single life PvP games. But just because the snowball can happen does not mean you team cant see it and over come it. I have won matches that were 2 v 5 but we worked together, took down the largest threats first and when my teammate finally ran out of ammo he worked as my armor.

Snowball adverted (melted)

I never said it THE ONLY OUTCOME, its the most common one and again, its not just this game.

Edited by Revis Volek, 05 May 2016 - 03:26 PM.

[adamts01]

Revis Volek, on 05 May 2016 - 08:43 AM, said:

Stomps are an inherent mechanic of non respawn games, its isnt the MM fault every time if any of them.

The snowball effect is real, but it's different than the typical pug experience. In solo que it's just whichever team has more bads. Half the losing team did sub 50 damage and the winning team was rushing to see who would get the kill first. That's what I see more often than not, and it's not a balanced match or snowball effect.

Narcissistic Martyr, on 05 May 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:

I'm bad about this one... especially during close skirmish matches where I keep reminding people that the disarmed mechs can't hurt them and to stop wasting heat and ammo on them. Which they ignore and then we lose.

There's a difference between being bad and being stupid. I'll absolutely call out and disrespect assault for chasing a gimped spider off a cliff during a fight. I don't however blame bad players for doing poorly, it's PGI's fault for pushing them in the deep end with no floaties. For those guys, I'll genuinely try to help.

Sir Wulfrick, on 05 May 2016 - 11:07 AM, said:

Did you miss out a /s tag on that post? If so, fine. If not, you're part of the problem. Would it really be so very difficult to show a bit of politeness? Encouragement and understanding to new players? YOU were a T5 scrub at one point. We all were. Do you really think that this sort of obnoxious elitism will ever encourage more people to play MWO, so that the game is better financed and we get New Stuff Faster? The more new players are encouraged to rise up the ranks the better the game gets for all of us. Just saying...

Read my above explanation. I'm normally very good in game. But if I see an assault break off to go on a massive flank, then nicely ask him to stay with the group and he either a) goes anyway and gets bent over by lights or is walking around like an idiot, still flanking cluelessly while his team is all dead, then yeah I'll kindly ask him to remove his balls so as to not taint the gene pool with his specialness.

[kesmai]

Hello,
I'm one of those useless scrubs.
For example i had a 68 dmg game in a brandnew marauder 3r yesterday. I was running around like a headless chicken and ended the match at 98%. The team won the match.
So if you see me, it is ok to call me out. I suck. Just shoot me i'm easy prey. Or better completely ignore me, 'cos i'm no threat at all.
Thanks.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I don't usually say gg, but when I do its on a game that I felt was really good or where at least I did really good and I'll say gg in all chat. If the team I'm on completely stomps an enemy who barely put up I fight I'll say gg in team chat, as apparently it wasn't such a good game for the reds. If the enemy completely stomps us into the ground I'll say gg reds due to their great game, they deserved it.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

You know, I've been thinking about this topic for a few days... and it reminds me of something I used to be very big on in videogames, Honor.

Honor's something of an abstract concept really, and means different things to different people. For me, Honor was always about playing by the rules, about not abusing straight out broken mechanics, and about playing the game with the intention behind the universe and lore at hand.

I've played a lot of videogames, card games, and various other "Competative" games in my 30+ years, and I've seen all manner of, well, less than honorable gameplay, unsporting play at that. Be it the absolute cheese of the month, or utilizing game mechanics in unintended ways. I've seen people literally attack others, or damage physical property over these games. And I never understood it. Still don't frankly.

But I'll never forget once, during a CoD tournament I was a part of, I approached a player on my team who had decided to glitch through a wall and called him out on it, on the unsporting conduct and dishonorable gameplay... What I was told will always be something I think about in discussions like this.

"Honor? There's no honor on the internet, what matters in the win. If I can do this, and rack up the kills, then I'll do so. If the dev's didn't want me doing it, they would have built their game better, and not allowed for it to happen."

I was kinda taken aback, how can people have this kind of attitude. The point of a game is to have fun right? To play within the rules and do your best...

But then I remembered. "The Greater Internet {Frak} theory"... give someone the internet, anonymity, and a disconnect between the feelings of those around him [essentially not getting actual human facial/movement queue's] and you essentially allow for people to become sociopaths, because there's a disconnect between the avatar of a player, and that there's a real person on the other side.

GIFT essentially is the issue. That guy who's ruining your game, he doesn't see you as a person, he see's you as a bunch of 1's and 0's... this is someone who likely, in every day life, wouldn't go out of their way to abuse the system, but since it's "just a game" they can indulge that tendency they have in an environment that allows them to be safe, where as if they were to attempt it in real life, they would get the crap beaten out of them by people who'd had enough of their crap.

Why is there so little sportsmanship in online games? Because all that matters to people is the win, not the gameplay itself, and people will abuse the system if it means they get a +1 to their score... it's really that simple.

[adamts01]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 06 May 2016 - 02:16 AM, said:

Why is there so little sportsmanship in online games? Because all that matters to people is the win, not the gameplay itself, and people will abuse the system if it means they get a +1 to their score... it's really that simple.

TLDR, bet it was inspiring though. I'll disagree with you on this though. Kids talk tough on computers for the same reason people act tough in their cars, they feel they're safe. That's why every once and a while you have to follow someone till they reach a stop light and start bashing on their car with kevlar knuckled gloves. I talk **** every couple of matches, but I could care less about winning, I just want a good fight, and little ******* should realize they're being little *******, maybe one day they'll grow a pair, but probably not.

[SteelBruiser]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 06 May 2016 - 02:16 AM, said:

You know, I've been thinking about this topic for a few days... and it reminds me of something I used to be very big on in videogames, Honor.

Honor's something of an abstract concept really, and means different things to different people. For me, Honor was always about playing by the rules, about not abusing straight out broken mechanics, and about playing the game with the intention behind the universe and lore at hand.

I've played a lot of videogames, card games, and various other &quot;Competative&quot; games in my 30+ years, and I've seen all manner of, well, less than honorable gameplay, unsporting play at that. Be it the absolute cheese of the month, or utilizing game mechanics in unintended ways. I've seen people literally attack others, or damage physical property over these games. And I never understood it. Still don't frankly.

But I'll never forget once, during a CoD tournament I was a part of, I approached a player on my team who had decided to glitch through a wall and called him out on it, on the unsporting conduct and dishonorable gameplay... What I was told will always be something I think about in discussions like this.

&quot;Honor? There's no honor on the internet, what matters in the win. If I can do this, and rack up the kills, then I'll do so. If the dev's didn't want me doing it, they would have built their game better, and not allowed for it to happen.&quot;

I was kinda taken aback, how can people have this kind of attitude. The point of a game is to have fun right? To play within the rules and do your best...

But then I remembered. &quot;The Greater Internet {Frak} theory&quot;... give someone the internet, anonymity, and a disconnect between the feelings of those around him [essentially not getting actual human facial/movement queue's] and you essentially allow for people to become sociopaths, because there's a disconnect between the avatar of a player, and that there's a real person on the other side.

GIFT essentially is the issue. That guy who's ruining your game, he doesn't see you as a person, he see's you as a bunch of 1's and 0's... this is someone who likely, in every day life, wouldn't go out of their way to abuse the system, but since it's &quot;just a game&quot; they can indulge that tendency they have in an environment that allows them to be safe, where as if they were to attempt it in real life, they would get the crap beaten out of them by people who'd had enough of their crap.

Why is there so little sportsmanship in online games? Because all that matters to people is the win, not the gameplay itself, and people will abuse the system if it means they get a +1 to their score... it's really that simple.

Unfortunately, if you just look closely at today's society and the current accepted norms, you'll find that too many folks forget to leave this destructive attitude in the game. Honor and doing what's right are not held in very high esteem anymore. It's all about the self and getting more free stuff than the other guy, no matter what it does to the system and the rest of the people. The problem is, they actually don't understand what they're really losing. It's a truly sad situation.

[Piney II]

I'll mute the VOIP neckbeard ragers, and I ignore the "gg" and other noise in chat.

I play strictly for fun and escape and have no time for the epeen polishers.

There's always another a match.

[Bud Crue]

SteelBruiser, on 06 May 2016 - 03:01 AM, said:

Unfortunately, if you just look closely at today's society and the current accepted norms, you'll find that too many folks forget to leave this destructive attitude in the game. Honor and doing what's right are not held in very high esteem anymore. It's all about the self and getting more free stuff than the other guy, no matter what it does to the system and the rest of the people. The problem is, they actually don't understand what they're really losing. It's a truly sad situation.

I think the issue is not that some folks "forget to leave this destructive attitude in the game". Rather it is that for whatever reason (GIFT, or whatever) they have such an attitude in the first place.

[DJ Mitchell]

Kelbor, on 04 May 2016 - 10:30 PM, said:

Hello my fellow Mechwarriors. I thank you for taking some of your time to read this post. I just finished a quick solo queue match that really disturbed me. I found myself on a losing side of a match due to poor coordination and even worse positing. We have all been there and it happens a lot in solo. The problem I see is the poor attitude and insults being flung on VoIP and in game text. I have been in this game for a long time so any criticism I get is probability deserved, but I have often found new players in solo and they little to no idea what they are doing and bitching at them will never help them improve and is likely to scare away what I see as vital to the long term survival to Mechwarrior, New Players.

This negativity is a cancer that is killing off one of our favorite pastimes. We all, including myself, need to stop and really rethink how we represent ourselves in match and try to help the new guy, which is often the quietest ones, improve enough to really start enjoying this game and not rage quit in a couple of hours. That is all. Thank you for your time.

Agreed, new players combined with a friendly attitude from community side are both vital for this games long term survival and fighting bad attitudes before they spread out or become "standart behaviour" is clearly a good thing.

But so far I haven´t seen or heard much negative behaviour in this game,not only when compared to WoT or AW but in general the amount was pretty low even the "lemmingwarrior rounds" were absolutely civil.

So is it really a problem in this game already ?

[adamts01]

DJ Mitchell, on 06 May 2016 - 05:06 AM, said:

So is it really a problem in this game already ?

Not really, people are just crazy sensitive around here.

[Jehofi]

äh ... good thread?

[TKSax]

You know what controls what is said in change and weather or not it is insulting? You, how you react to something is completely under your control. I will not let someone I do not know and probably will never meet. "ruin" a game for me by getting upset about comments in chat. If they are racist/sexist. stuff that break the CoC I report them and move on, with voip I just mute them and if need be report them, and then I continue enjoying the game on my terms.