194 replies to this topic

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I play as a Clanner in CW but use a lot of IS mechs in quick play. I've been finding that my IS mechs preform much better than the clan ones, though the clan mechs do tend to have similar or higher damage outputs.

My IS mechs seem to be more efficient in their damage, when I look at weapon stats I can see why. The SRMs have less spread, the ballistics fire in a single slug, the laser beam durations are much shorter, quirks are thrown in to further improve those stats, I even get durability boosts on some mech variants. Ghost heat is also more forgiving allowing me to hit with alpha strikes without much worry when it would be handy to.

Basically my Atlas is walking nigh unkillable destruction, My Mauler rains death on enemies with heavy ballistics further out than a Dire Wolf and with more speed and higher mounts, My Banshee can run around with 5 large pulse lasers and cut down a third of a team with ease. All of these mechs can just cut right through enemies with ease, armor gone in a couple hits, and I end a game with 3-5 solo kills on average.

However on the Clan side I find I have to work more to poke and push and dodge and spread damage and make sure to always stay out of range of any IS mech and hope I can get my beam's full burn on a target before they can fire a shot off. If I'm going and using my Hellbringers and hitting enemies with either quad ERLLs or dual LPL dual ERML or something similar its not nearly as easy as when I am in an IS mech. Armor just falls off the thing and structure doesn't take much to finish off when going against things like IS ballistics or LPLs or even SRM bursts.

I've honestly found my triple LPL Hunchback 4p to be able to kill off Hellbringers with ease and Oxides nearby basically mean I'm a dead man if one targets me while I'm in a Hellbringer even though if I'm in an IS mech they just vaporize the moment they get in range.

I've always liked efficient killing rather than just being able to spam out damage, and that seems to be what the IS is offering now. Maybe I've signed up for the wrong side in community warfare.

What have you guys noticed when playing on both sides?

Edited by Dakota1000, 09 May 2016 - 01:30 PM.

[Moldur]

I feel like there are a lot less annoying nuances. IS stuff just works the way you want it as far as mechanics go, but the disadvantages are in weight and range.

On the other hand, you can really pack stuff into the *good* clan chassis, and c-lpl are insane, but duration for most of the other lasers, heat, autocannon bursts, lrm volley, etc. just make things less straightforward a lot of the time.

Edited by Moldur, 09 May 2016 - 01:33 PM.

[Lord0fHats]

I wouldn't call them 'easy' mode. I definitely notice the range difference. What I do notice is how much easier heat management is XD I ride that red line way too much in my Clan mechs

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Moldur, on 09 May 2016 - 01:31 PM, said:

I feel like there are a lot less annoying nuances. IS stuff just works the way you want it as far as mechanics go, but the disadvantages are in weight and range.

Yeah, the weight and range is a disadvantage, but with how well those guns work I'd trade in my clan UACs and LPLs and SRMs for IS versions any day.

Lord0fHats, on 09 May 2016 - 01:31 PM, said:

I wouldn't call them 'easy' mode. I definitely notice the range difference. What I do notice is how much easier heat management is XD I ride that red line way too much in my Clan mechs

I almost never overheat in my IS mechs, even the laser vomit ones on the hottest of maps, Clan ones however I got to hope no enemy charges me most of the time.

[DarthHias]

I find my IS Mechs are equaly effective but different.

@LordofHats I know what you mean, in my Clan mechs I hear "Override Shutdown" all the time

[El Bandito]

Dakota1000, on 09 May 2016 - 01:28 PM, said:

I've honestly found my triple LPL Hunchback 4p to be able to kill off Hellbringers with ease and Oxides nearby basically mean I'm a dead man if one targets me while I'm in a Hellbringer even though if I'm in an IS mech they just vaporize the moment they get in range.

I've always liked efficient killing rather than just being able to spam out damage, and that seems to be what the IS is offering now. Maybe I've signed up for the wrong side in community warfare.

What have you guys noticed when playing on both sides?

I highly doubt a Hellbringer is worse than a Triple LPL Hunchie. Clans are better at efficient damage rather than spamming, actually, due to their high alpha pokes. IS is better at sustained damage.

And if the Clan unit agrees to configure for brawls, then Clan mechs are just as deadly in close range as IS mechs. SRM + SPL Timbie is top tier in dueling situations.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 May 2016 - 01:39 PM.

[DarthHias]

Dakota1000, on 09 May 2016 - 01:35 PM, said:

Yeah, the weight and range is a disadvantage, but with how well those guns work I'd trade in my clan UACs and LPLs and SRMs for IS versions any day.



I almost never overheat in my IS mechs, even the laser vomit ones on the hottest of maps, Clan ones however I got to hope no enemy charges me most of the time.

I find Clan Srms quite good due to low weight. I have a Timby with 4 SRM6 and 4 Mpl and thats a hell of a brawler.
Also the Clan LPL is in my opinion the best weapon in the game.

[Alistair Winter]

Depends on the mech, depends on the build.

Is the Centurion easy mode? Not really. Is the Victor easy mode? Not really. Is the Cataphract easy mode? Nope. They can be good mechs, but I wouldn't put them in the same category as Griffins, Banshees or Black Knights.

And then there's the build. For example, I always use LRMs on my Maulers, because of nostalgia. And that's a pretty severe handicap, because IS LRMs are heavy as ****. So if you use the 5xAC5 cheesevomit build for the Mauler, is that easy mode? Sure. But if you're not min-maxing like crazy, the Mauler isn't really that great.

Both sides have their easy mode mechs. If you want easy mode, run a 12xSPL Nova in Scouting mode. I usually have to take a shower after that.

[Coolant]

Clan and IS more balanced then they ever have been

[Felicitatem Parco]

The IS has nicely buffed weapons because certain people insisted on basing the Clan Tech on fully inflated TT values for a 12v12 game... So something had to give. What gave was the IS inferiority. PGI added parity to the game by making IS weapons easier to use and gave IS Mechs quirks to balance for the inherent "betterness" of ClanTech that was carried over in full force.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 09 May 2016 - 01:45 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

El Bandito, on 09 May 2016 - 01:35 PM, said:

I highly doubt a Hellbringer is worse than a Triple LPL Hunchie. Clans are better at efficient damage rather than spamming, actually, due to their high alpha pokes. IS is better at sustained damage.

I find the damage not to efficient due to how spreading damage works. The Hunchie has nearly half the beam duration of the Hellbringer for maybe 1/3 less damage or so. Then with the heat generation of clan weaponry that damage wasn't all too efficient. Seems that they are only efficient in tonnage spend for the weapons to do that damage.

IS is great at sustained damage, but they are also great at sustainable high burst damage.

[Mazzyplz]

some of the newer IS mechs are too durable, like the marauder.
but i disagree with OP.
i run inner sphere mechs and they are powerful, but the sheer firepower of a direwolf? we don't have that.
not even the king crab. i also run a nova, which is very fragile but hard hitting, and the mech is a beast.
i run it stock, 12 er meds. the range on er meds is better than inner sphere, and my lasers are cheaper to shoot
and if you run small lasers you do more damage as they do 5 instead of 3. the clan smalls are flat out better.
the warhawk can sustain ppc better than my awesome or a stalker. and it's clan erppc.
the large or pulse laser of the clan mechs is just as good as the laser of the IS mechs. if you hold the clan beam as long
it delivers just the same damage.
of course clan ballistics are less great.
inner sphere has less spread damage and like 3% more armor, but inner sphere also has weaker light mech chassis (plural) in general and worse small and medium lasers.

also - if you like the hunchback so much the clans also get a hunchback right? so there's no grounds to complain that your hunchback outdoes your clan mechs. in fact the clan hunchback can be slightly more efficient due to clan weaponry

Edited by Mazzyplz, 09 May 2016 - 01:52 PM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

The tendency some have to look at battles as pure mech vs mech engagements where players are irrelevent bystanders whose skill level, builds or decision making process doesn't factor into the equation confuses me. Clan mechs could seem easy to defeat if most of the clan mechs someone encountered in game were piloted by newer, less, experienced players. To get a clear indication of game balance requires that players have an equal skill level.

[Bishop Steiner]

Dakota1000, on 09 May 2016 - 01:28 PM, said:

I play as a Clanner in CW but use a lot of IS mechs in quick play. I've been finding that my IS mechs preform much better than the clan ones, though the clan mechs do tend to have similar or higher damage outputs.

My IS mechs seem to be more efficient in their damage, when I look at weapon stats I can see why. The SRMs have less spread, the ballistics fire in a single slug, the laser beam durations are much shorter, quirks are thrown in to further improve those stats, I even get durability boosts on some mech variants. Ghost heat is also more forgiving allowing me to hit with alpha strikes without much worry when it would be handy to.

Basically my Atlas is walking nigh unkillable destruction, My Mauler rains death on enemies with heavy ballistics further out than a Dire Wolf and with more speed and higher mounts, My Banshee can run around with 5 large pulse lasers and cut down a third of a team with ease. All of these mechs can just cut right through enemies with ease, armor gone in a couple hits, and I end a game with 3-5 solo kills on average.

However on the Clan side I find I have to work more to poke and push and dodge and spread damage and make sure to always stay out of range of any IS mech and hope I can get my beam's full burn on a target before they can fire a shot off. If I'm going and using my Hellbringers and hitting enemies with either quad ERLLs or dual LPL dual ERML or something similar its not nearly as easy as when I am in an IS mech. Armor just falls off the thing and structure doesn't take much to finish off when going against things like IS ballistics or LPLs or even SRM bursts.

I've honestly found my triple LPL Hunchback 4p to be able to kill off Hellbringers with ease and Oxides nearby basically mean I'm a dead man if one targets me while I'm in a Hellbringer even though if I'm in an IS mech they just vaporize the moment they get in range.

I've always liked efficient killing rather than just being able to spam out damage, and that seems to be what the IS is offering now. Maybe I've signed up for the wrong side in community warfare.

What have you guys noticed when playing on both sides?

My Commando, Spider, Panther, Urbanmech, Vindicator, Trebuchet, Rifleman, Dragon, Catapults, Archers, Victors, Awesomes, etc would disagree.

Warhammer and Marauder are real good, Oxide, BK and Hoppers a bit broken, and yes the Wubshee is the Meta Assault, I suppose.

Beyond that? Can't think of any appreciably better or easier than Clan Mechs. ACH is still better than any IS Light not named Oxide, as are Jenny IIs, Stormcrow is still better than pretty much any IS Medium, TBR, did get nerfed off God Tier finally, but is still a solid Tier 1, as are the HBR and EBJ. Really the only spot I find the Clans lacking, to a degree, anyhow, is Assaults. DWF is too immobile, and the Warhawk too gimped by locked gear (though with the right builds still really good... just not Wubshee good).

As for my Centurions and Hunchbacks, I feel they give a close enough match to the upper end Clan Mediums to give you a chance to win based on builds and pilots, but ezmode? Not even close.

Dakota1000, on 09 May 2016 - 01:46 PM, said:

I find the damage not to efficient due to how spreading damage works. The Hunchie has nearly half the beam duration of the Hellbringer for maybe 1/3 less damage or so. Then with the heat generation of clan weaponry that damage wasn't all too efficient. Seems that they are only efficient in tonnage spend for the weapons to do that damage.

IS is great at sustained damage, but they are also great at sustainable high burst damage.

And IS has half the range. Maybe that's not a huge deal in face hugging comp matches, IDK. But for the rest of the population that range and extra ton, do matter. That said, the IS version is too cool running. And IMO, both do too much damage.

Mazzyplz, on 09 May 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

some of the newer IS mechs are too durable, like the marauder.
but i disagree with OP.
i run inner sphere mechs and they are powerful, but the sheer firepower of a direwolf? we don't have that.
not even the king crab. i also run a nova, which is very fragile but hard hitting, and the mech is a beast.
i run it stock, 12 er meds. the range on er meds is better than inner sphere, and my lasers are cheaper to shoot
and if you run small lasers you do more damage as they do 5 instead of 3. the clan smalls are flat out better.
the warhawk can sustain ppc better than my awesome or a stalker. and it's clan erppc.
the large or pulse laser of the clan mechs is just as good as the laser of the IS mechs. if you hold the clan beam as long
it delivers just the same damage.
of course clan ballistics are less great.
inner sphere has less spread damage and like 3% more armor, but inner sphere also has weaker light mech chassis (plural) in general and worse small and medium lasers.

also - if you like the hunchback so much the clans also get a hunchback right? so there's no grounds to complain that your hunchback outdoes your clan mechs. in fact the clan hunchback can be slightly more efficient due to clan weaponry

My HBK 4G rather wishes it could pack 2x Clan UAC10s. The spread is so short as to be a non issue in most scenarios.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Mazzyplz, on 09 May 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

some of the newer IS mechs are too durable, like the marauder.
but i disagree with OP.
i run inner sphere mechs and they are powerful, but the sheer firepower of a direwolf? we don't have that.
not even the king crab. i also run a nova, which is very fragile but hard hitting, and the mech is a beast.
i run it stock, 12 er meds. the range on er meds is better than inner sphere, and my lasers are cheaper to shoot
and if you run small lasers you do more damage as they do 5 instead of 3. the clan smalls are flat out better.
the warhawk can sustain ppc better than my awesome or a stalker. and it's clan erppc.
the large or pulse laser of the clan mechs is just as good as the laser of the IS mechs. if you hold the clan beam as long
it delivers just the same damage.
of course clan ballistics are less great.
inner sphere has less spread damage and like 3% more armor, but inner sphere also has weaker light mech chassis (plural) in general and worse small and medium lasers.

also - if you like the hunchback so much the clans also get a hunchback right? so there's no grounds to complain that your hunchback outdoes your clan mechs. in fact the clan hunchback can be slightly more efficient due to clan weaponry

I have the Clan Hunchback but much prefer the original due to its durability and shorter beam durations for the laser variant, and the LRM variant has quirks to make its 2 LRM10s about as good as 4 clan LRM10s but with better spread, and the SRM variant has structure of a 70 tonner. The IS Ballistic variants don't get the sheer spam of firepower however but what they do shoot is accurate and they have decent structure boosts.

Also as for the sheer firepower of a Dire Wolf, its no use if it can't be brought into position. I find the Mauler 1R with a module for cooldown and its quirks can run quad UAC5 with the DPS of almost 5 UAC5s all the while having high mounts and better speed and torso twist along with harder hitting ballistic rounds. You should really try it out, its much better than the King Crab if you like UAC5s.

EDIT:

@Bishop:

I did mean only the top tier level of IS mechs being easy mode compared to top tier level of Clan mechs, both sides have their trash tier mechs that would never be considered easy mode.

Also IS does have about half range (well about 2/3 the range pre quirk) but I haven't had that matter as much, most of the matches I have do tend to be fought mostly at close range where structure boosts, high accuracy, sustainability, and quick durations matter most. Most battles I find start off around 500m and close in from there aside from a few people poking with a couple ERPPCs or ERLLs or the occasional AC2 or gauss.

I've found Stormcrows to be easy enough to beat in a Centurion, the poor things can't handle the SRM and AC20 burst too well, and on the 55 ton level the Griffin 2n with quad ASRM6 really gives them a run for their money.

For IS lights I think its mostly the Oxide that gets to me while I'm in a Clan mech, though I find when I'm in a good IS mech with a nice strong ballistic or some large pulse lasers or a decent SRM burst no light mech gives me trouble. I almost never use streak SRMs so maybe that could be why.

Edited by Dakota1000, 09 May 2016 - 02:12 PM.

[AztecD]

yea IS mechs are easy mode, that's why in Faction warfare the IS side is dominating all Clan vs IS matches

[Satan n stuff]

Dakota1000, on 09 May 2016 - 01:46 PM, said:

I find the damage not to efficient due to how spreading damage works. The Hunchie has nearly half the beam duration of the Hellbringer for maybe 1/3 less damage or so. Then with the heat generation of clan weaponry that damage wasn't all too efficient. Seems that they are only efficient in tonnage spend for the weapons to do that damage.

IS is great at sustained damage, but they are also great at sustainable high burst damage.

Considering you'd have to be suicidal to put an XL engine in a hunchie while you wouldn't swap it out if you could on the Helbie, the tonnage difference really adds up. Of course the actual chassis in this case is heavier too, but you can make the same comparison with a Nova.
A clan mech needs slightly more double heat sinks to get the same dissipation as an IS mech would, but they can actually fit that many due to the reduced heat sink size and lighter weapons and more often than not they can fit more because there's never a good reason not to take an XL engine if you even have the choice. Building high alpha laserboats is also a choice and it's an option the vast majority of IS mechs simply don't have. Complaining that your boats are not sustainable because they have the alpha of an IS laserboat that's at least 50% heavier is ridiculous.

On the large pulses specifically, both are too long ranged and too heat efficient at the moment.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 09 May 2016 - 02:05 PM.

[Idealsuspect]

Dakota1000, on 09 May 2016 - 01:46 PM, said:

I find the damage not to efficient due to how spreading damage works. The Hunchie has nearly half the beam duration of the Hellbringer for maybe 1/3 less damage or so. Then with the heat generation of clan weaponry that damage wasn't all too efficient. Seems that they are only efficient in tonnage spend for the weapons to do that damage.

IS is great at sustained damage, but they are also great at sustainable high burst damage.

You totally right but wait russ said that PGI know better than anyone else how balance thier own game also one of you is wrong ... lol

Well about your hunchi vs hellbringer even a fresh huggin can defeat the fresh hellbringer... and yea huggin isnt really good.


Clans have lots of good weapons but in overall they cant win a duel agaisnt an IS boat becose their lack in cooling heat
If you play into an organized smart premade you can beat a good IS premade ( if they dont rush you ) but as pug playing in middle of average MWO players vs average IS players or worst vs organized IS premade well its just hardcore mode you will get 20 - 48 score.
For now IS is easy mode specially on sulfur or vitric its a fact and next contract we go back to easy mode till PGI rebalance heatsink mess or structure quirks mess...

[Satan n stuff]

Idealsuspect, on 09 May 2016 - 02:11 PM, said:

You totally right but wait russ said that PGI know better than anyone else how balance thier own game also one of you is wrong ... lol

Well about your hunchi vs hellbringer even a fresh huggin can defeat the fresh hellbringer... and yea huggin isnt really good.


Clans have lots of good weapons but in overall they cant win a duel agaisnt an IS boat becose their lack in cooling heat
If you play into an organized smart premade you can beat a good IS premade ( if they dont rush you ) but as pug playing in middle of average MWO players vs average IS players or worst vs organized IS premade well its just hardcore mode you will get 20 - 48 score.
For now IS is easy mode specially on sulfur or vitric its a fact and next contract we go back to easy mode till PGI rebalance heatsink mess or structure quirks mess...

Bring fewer lasers and add some heat sinks. It's not that hard.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Satan n stuff, on 09 May 2016 - 02:03 PM, said:

Considering you'd have to be suicidal to put an XL engine in a hunchie while you wouldn't swap it out if you could on the Helbie, the tonnage difference really adds up. Of course the actual chassis in this case is heavier too, but you can make the same comparison with a Nova.

I always put an XL on my hunchbacks though...
I really don't see a reason not to, if I lose my hunch my mech is nearly worthless anyway, I might as well die with it and make it count while I can by using my high firepower and speed to put out damage repeatedly where needed and reposition when I need to get away from danger.

I made the comparison with the Hellbringer because I remember one specifically on Tourmaline being nearly helpless against me while he was alone after I hunted him down in my Hunchback. Neither of us had allies nearby so it was just a 1v1. I had gone to him after he poked me in the back from behind our lines. I was able to easily cut off his useful side torso in 3 well placed quick hits while he was trying not to overheat after a couple shots that I spread over my mech. After that It was like shooting a legged Urbanmech.

If we are going for hypothetical comparisons I feel a Nova would be even easier to take out in many situations if I can peek and poke on it or stay out of range. A 12 small laser one would have a good chance if it got within range though, otherwise those low mount arms and massive side torsos will be its downfall.

Edited by Dakota1000, 09 May 2016 - 02:27 PM.