334 replies to this topic

[Gruinhardt]

Contrex, on 28 May 2016 - 03:22 PM, said:

You dont even know 20% of the people in a unit as big as swol and others and you do not play with them regularly as well. So if you dont play with them AND big units would have big impact, there is no reason to let big units be alive. ....

Mission for me: Annoy Russ with somekind of counter of big units, show the big units their impact and then just cut them.

You don't even know what your writing about. First SWOL has 215 members, 60 are inactive since Phase 3 launch. From 155 active players we have lucky to get 1 12 man group during NA prime time. The 60 inactive are taking a break, real life issues, or they are on military deployment. I am not kicking someone from the unit who is serving their country because you have a problem with big units.

[Deathlike]

AnTi90d, on 28 May 2016 - 07:05 PM, said:

This thread quickly deteriorated into an echo chamber of mercenaries circle-jerking eachother.



..and they all give the same damn solution that might have worked in the game, in the past, but isn't applicable today.

Kuritan coms are dead (aside for a four hour window on Friday and Saturday nights,) and I'd lay money on other houses being deserted wastelands, as well. There are no units to join, only empty TS subgroups where units used to be. This isn't a solution. A new player has a zero percent chance of finding any community to play the game with. It's join Invasion, solo, or don't even bother playing the damn game.. all the while mercenaries keep waving around some imaginary magic wand solution of, "Download Teamspeak and you'll find people to play with." That's a lie; It's more like, "Download Teamspeak and sit in an abandoned server for up to eight hours while you solo drop. Repeat, ad nauseum, until you give up."

I'm on TS six to eight hours, every day, and I might.. might.. find a group to play with.. once or twice a week.. and, even then, it's only good for about one or two god damn matches until they logoff.

There is no community. There is no "training." There is no camaraderie. There is only a nearly abandoned game mode with nearly abandoned Teamspeak servers and a plethora of people on the forums offering up solutions that aren't applicable, today.

A lot of it has to do with the disappointment that was Phase 3 (technically, there was multiple disappointments with respect to FW before that, including Phase 2, and the initial Phase).

It's hard to want to discuss, let alone queuing for FW, unless I want teeth pulled.

[justcallme A S H]

So lets humour the unit splitting for a sec.

You get a 200 person unit. Force them to split into say, 40 man units, 5 in total.

They will still have the same group website, still talk to each other on TS, still play with the same people on their friends list etc etc. Then a contract change, those 5 smaller units will move at the same time. Why? Because they will still behave like a single entity because that is how the exist.

What is actually achieved out of the "splitting units will fix the problem" suggestion? Nothing.

[MischiefSC]

AnTi90d, on 28 May 2016 - 07:05 PM, said:

This thread quickly deteriorated into an echo chamber of mercenaries circle-jerking eachother.



..and they all give the same damn solution that might have worked in the game, in the past, but isn't applicable today.

Kuritan coms are dead (aside for a four hour window on Friday and Saturday nights,) and I'd lay money on other houses being deserted wastelands, as well. There are no units to join, only empty TS subgroups where units used to be. This isn't a solution. A new player has a zero percent chance of finding any community to play the game with. It's join Invasion, solo, or don't even bother playing the damn game.. all the while mercenaries keep waving around some imaginary magic wand solution of, "Download Teamspeak and you'll find people to play with." That's a lie; It's more like, "Download Teamspeak and sit in an abandoned server for up to eight hours while you solo drop. Repeat, ad nauseum, until you give up."

I'm on TS six to eight hours, every day, and I might.. might.. find a group to play with.. once or twice a week.. and, even then, it's only good for about one or two god damn matches until they logoff.

There is no community. There is no "training." There is no camaraderie. There is only a nearly abandoned game mode with nearly abandoned Teamspeak servers and a plethora of people on the forums offering up solutions that aren't applicable, today.

Davion TS is active. We have 3 borders that we've rolled up and don't show anymore.

TS didn't empty because of big units. It was a mix of things - no real purpose to FW still, same design flaws for 2 years (ghost drops, etc) restrictions on the big units that brought in, trained and released players, Long Tom letting a 4man team shut down the 12man invasion queue, no point to being a loyalist meaning most people play mercs which in turn makes the population too unstable.

A few other things. Just bad decisions compounding bad decisions. PGI has released a minimum viable product and done the absolute bare minimum to update it without having to flesh it out. When changes were bad they are generally left. Bad decisions compounded by bad decisions.

FW is a testament to bare minimum effort and "meh, whatever, they'll but the Kodiak anyway".

They were right, we did.

[ccrider]

No offense and not to be a ****, but most merc units will invite you into their ts during drops. I have over 30 bookmarked and if I'm pugging I just say "in ts? What room?" And join them. If kurita comms are dead, group with mercs who come through. You'll end up with a solid roster of ts addressed and the ability to drop with whoever comes through kurita space.

[Armando]

ccrider, on 28 May 2016 - 07:54 PM, said:

No offense and not to be a ****, but most merc units will invite you into their ts during drops. I have over 30 bookmarked and if I'm pugging I just say "in ts? What room?" And join them. If kurita comms are dead, group with mercs who come through. You'll end up with a solid roster of ts addressed and the ability to drop with whoever comes through kurita space.

Spoken like a pilot who takes personal responsibility for their situation in game. Bravo Sir, BRAVO!

Edited by Armando, 28 May 2016 - 08:06 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Agreed. I have slowly started adding other TS's. I'm up to around 10 now.

We have people regularly dropping by our TS as well depending on what faction we are with etc. Sometimes even just to see if some QP are going down and to join in.

The community is what you make of it.

[Danjo San]

MischiefSC, on 28 May 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

How about this - why are human populations not evenly distributed among every city and every country in the world? Obviously a bit bigger of a list of reasons but do you understand the concept?

How about big conglomerates and companies destroying the small family business.... Do you understand the concept?

[Pat Kell]

Big companies did not destroy the small family business....small family business couldn't compete with the big conglomerates and companies, that is why they failed and is hardly the responsibility to the big companies. Don't get me wrong, it's sad to see those things go and all but those big companies were able to do what they did because we as consumers choose to shop there. Pretty hard sell to convince me that it's the big companies fault that small business failed because those big companies provided us with exactly what we wanted at a price that we like and we decided to frequent their business. I think you would be better off blaming the consumers (i.e. you and me) than blaming the big companies. They just gave us what we asked for and we bought it.

Same applies to CW. Big groups are not ruining CW, the consumers are ruining it by choosing not to play it. If you want PGI to invest time and energy into making CW worthwhile, you need to spend your time there. Show them what you want by playing that mode. So many more people play QP that it's no surprise that PGI is doing what they are doing. Be a "responsible" consumer and frequent CW regardless of any "obvious" problems you may feel it has because that is the only way that more resources will be put into it.

Do you understand the concept.

[Armando]

Danjo San, on 29 May 2016 - 03:06 AM, said:

How about big conglomerates and companies destroying the small family business.... Do you understand the concept?

I don't want to come off like I don't give a sh!at about your plight, or that I think the state of the game is perfection that can't be improved upon, because neither is true.

That said, I checked around and found you stats (I will not share them, though they are nothing to be ashamed of). What I found was a pilot that wins more than they lose and kills more than they die. I'm here to tell you my friend, that is a good place to be IMHO.

You know what it takes to kill, you know what it takes to win....recruit others and teach them what you have learned (from your status I would say you know what you are doing). Make your unit a fun environment to develop in. Just like in that one movie, you build it...they will come.

I say this for two reasons:

1) I don't think PGI is going to solve the problem anytime soon.
2) I honestly think that if you take personal responsibility for your situation, PGI be damned you can change it without them. (easier than most pilots I might add).

Anywho, nothing but love for you brother Danjo San...please don't confuse my not liking your idea, with me not liking you. :-)

Edited by Armando, 29 May 2016 - 05:51 AM.

[Danjo San]

Armando, on 29 May 2016 - 05:49 AM, said:

I don't want to come off like I don't give a sh!at about your plight, or that I think the state of the game is perfection that can't be improved upon, because neither is true.

That said, I checked around and found you stats (I will not share them, though they are nothing to be ashamed of). What I found was a pilot that wins more than they lose and kills more than they die. I'm here to tell you my friend, that is a good place to be IMHO.

You know what it takes to kill, you know what it takes to win....recruit others and teach them what you have learned (from your status I would say you know what you are doing). Make your unit a fun environment to develop in. Just like in that one movie, you build it...they will come.

I say this for two reasons:

1) I don't think PGI is going to solve the problem anytime soon.
2) I honestly think that if you take personal responsibility for your situation, PGI be damned you can change it without them. (easier than most pilots I might add).

Anywho, nothing but love for you brother Danjo San...please don't confuse my not liking your idea, with me not liking you. :-)

Never made this personal about my stats and my experiences. I know how to fight yes, I know how to shoot and kill, I know how to organize and droplead, have done it many times. I am the active recruiting force for my unit and we do conduct training. None of what I said applies to my own self being salty over big units and being pugstomped. I do know the concerns and issues lower experienced players in my own unit have towards FW, I know a lot of other players in small units, that share the same concerns.
I have a long list of TS Servers I join every now and then and drop and coordinate with other players as well too, Quick Play and FW. And as I repeatedly stated I have no problem with effective units and good players. My suggestions are suggestions of how to make the overall experience more rewarding for everyone and not just players in large groups. Personally I don't care about my Tag being on the map or not, or being able to collect a meager amount of MC to distribute to members of my unit. I have reached the highest level of Faction Rewards long before Phase 3 hit. And even with no incentive of playing FW and getting more "Loyalty Rewards" I choose to play for Liao as a loyalist, because it's what I believe in. Again everything I said is not about me not putting in work, but wanting all the rewards. It never was and never will be. I like FW, and I like to play for Liao. Thats all.
There are others that don't speak up here on the forums. Players have told me they don't play FW because of all those reason I mentioned earlier. Their voice needs to be heard. And when Players of my own unit tell me they don't want to play FW for these reasons as well this evening and rather would quickplay for a couple of hours. It's a concern that is out there and it is a fact. As I said I have a very long friendslist and I drop with pilots from all over the world and believe me or not the issue being large unit clusters is a shared issue all around the globe and should be taken seriously. As it is a factor that is keeping people from playing. Trust me I know a fair share of them...
Again my oppinions and my suggestions are not about my personal stats it's about what I hear dropping with other units and other pilots. Put it how you want, there are players out there that have quit FW for exactly for there being no automated population balance and that some units are too large and just keep sucking in more players.
And no worries no hurt feelings

[ccrider]

Maybe it would be easier to fix FP problems if instead of a unit cap there was no cost to invite players to any small unit under 40 or so members. Bigger units can afford the invite costs, hell I can pay a couple tickets myself a week and still have c-bills left over, but small units get hit hard. Then combo it with the idea of multiple planet tags, say 15 Mc per phase for the main unit that fought then 10 and 5 for units helping. This would allow smaller units to form, bigger units to continue to flourish and more units feel as though their contributions matter.

[Daidachi]

ccrider, on 29 May 2016 - 08:33 AM, said:

Maybe it would be easier to fix FP problems if instead of a unit cap there was no cost to invite players to any small unit under 40 or so members. Bigger units can afford the invite costs, hell I can pay a couple tickets myself a week and still have c-bills left over, but small units get hit hard. Then combo it with the idea of multiple planet tags, say 15 Mc per phase for the main unit that fought then 10 and 5 for units helping. This would allow smaller units to form, bigger units to continue to flourish and more units feel as though their contributions matter.

The funny thing is that PGI have already shown that it is possible to reward players who participated in an invasion with MC upon success - they did it for Liao players during FW beta when Sarna was taken.

If the ability to do that is there already, and the big, successful units are saying they're on board with it - even if it's a meager amount per player)....

[Danjo San]

The Comstar Intercepts were a nice incentive to play, but they were just abandoned quietly.

[Kin3ticX]

53 min is pushing it but 54 min is just unacceptable right out

[Randy Poffo]

MischiefSC, on 28 May 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

How about this - why are human populations not evenly distributed among every city and every country in the world? Obviously a bit bigger of a list of reasons but do you understand the concept?

Zipf's Law! Sorry, it's just really odd to see a pet research topic of mine show up in a forum about giant battle machines. (Totally worth looking up if you've never heard of it though).

[AssaultPig]

Pat Kell, on 29 May 2016 - 03:33 AM, said:

Big companies did not destroy the small family business....small family business couldn't compete with the big conglomerates and companies, that is why they failed and is hardly the responsibility to the big companies. Don't get me wrong, it's sad to see those things go and all but those big companies were able to do what they did because we as consumers choose to shop there. Pretty hard sell to convince me that it's the big companies fault that small business failed because those big companies provided us with exactly what we wanted at a price that we like and we decided to frequent their business. I think you would be better off blaming the consumers (i.e. you and me) than blaming the big companies. They just gave us what we asked for and we bought it.

Same applies to CW. Big groups are not ruining CW, the consumers are ruining it by choosing not to play it. If you want PGI to invest time and energy into making CW worthwhile, you need to spend your time there. Show them what you want by playing that mode. So many more people play QP that it's no surprise that PGI is doing what they are doing. Be a "responsible" consumer and frequent CW regardless of any "obvious" problems you may feel it has because that is the only way that more resources will be put into it.

Do you understand the concept.

you... have this backwards

if a business fails it is because it is either not attracting customers, or not providing them with value. No (or very few) consumers are gonna keep patronizing a business offering them a bad deal in the hope that, at some unknown future time, they will get a better one.

if people aren't having fun with FP they aren't gonna keep playing it in the hope that someday, it'll become fun. They're just gonna play other stuff.

[Randy Poffo]

Pat Kell, on 29 May 2016 - 03:33 AM, said:

Same applies to CW. Big groups are not ruining CW, the consumers are ruining it by choosing not to play it. If you want PGI to invest time and energy into making CW worthwhile, you need to spend your time there. Show them what you want by playing that mode. So many more people play QP that it's no surprise that PGI is doing what they are doing. Be a "responsible" consumer and frequent CW regardless of any "obvious" problems you may feel it has because that is the only way that more resources will be put into it.

Do you understand the concept.

It is quite the amazing "concept" you've got there. If everyone chose to do a thing that was not fun, it would become fun! Thing is, even if that were true (which is certainly open for debate) it is a terrible model.

It's almost as good as "If pork makes you sick and the restaurant on the corner only serves dishes with pork, you ought to eat there more often because that's the only way the restaurant will have an incentive to put dishes without pork on the menu." There definitely is a logic to it! Then again, there is also a sort of logic behind the idea that if you hit yourself with a hammer for long enough, it will feel really good when you stop.

[jaxjace]

why would you ever wait that long for a match, just sit outside the lobby, wait till the numbers get high, and jump in. I refuse to wait more than 5 minutes for a match.

[Pat Kell]

Randy, I am not suggesting that people do something that isn't fun or claiming that just by doing something repeatedly that it will become fun, I am merely pointing out the fact that businesses will supply that which people buy or use. People use QP more than CW and because of that PGI seems to be putting more effort into QP. Supply and demand. I am just pointing out that it's hard to get mad at the supplier for providing what it is that you want (and we can claim all we want that QP isn't what we want but until people start playing CW more, PGI simply won't be capable of shifting those QP money making endeavors over to CW). Granted, they could listen to us on some of the great ideas I have read here about how to improve CW and I think people would shift how they play to some degree but you will never make everyone happy and businesses tend to hold the status quo until there is no other option.

Edited by Pat Kell, 29 May 2016 - 04:07 PM.