189 replies to this topic

[Sjorpha]

Nightshade24, on 21 May 2016 - 03:04 AM, said:

MetaMechs has ALWAYS been 1 persons opinion.

This is not true, what Gman does is not simply posting builds he thinks is good.

His initial builds for a new mech may be his personal prediction of the meta, but what he tries to do to the best of his ability is track the metagame and update the tier lists with the currently relevant builds as the meta changes. If a build surfaces as a top winning choice Gman will post it and place it according to it's success, and he will do so even if he personally hates the build.

Sure the more casual lists are a little more about him throwing out favorite builds, but to diminish his work with "1 persons opinion" is to fundamentally misunderstand and disrespect what he is trying to do with his site.

Sure sometimes it's slightly out of date or a prediction is wrong or a mech get placed slightly wrong or whatever, not easy for me to judge since Gman is 10 times both the player and analyst I am.

But one thing is for certain: Metamechs is at least a 100 times better at accurately describing and predicting the relevant MWO metagame than any thread on this forum.

As someone pointed out earlier the general understanding of the metagame on this forum is about 5 months out of date, as evidenced by the fact that so many here still believes laser vomit is dominant.

It's also full of backwards reasoning. For example I've seen the argument that Kodiaks seem stronger because many people are playing it. As is having a horde of baddies in unelited mechs would somehow make the mech seem stronger than it is? How does that work? The truth is that the effect of baddies mishandling the Kodiaks are hiding the mechs power level and makes it seem worse than it is, hence all the nonsense about it being "squishy" and so on.

Edited by Sjorpha, 21 May 2016 - 04:41 AM.

[Bud Crue]

I hate metamechs. Ruined the game for me: made me go from T5 to T3 in about a month after a year of playing "my way"
Also:

Made me face the fact that some of my builds were crap.
Made me recognize the illusion of "mobility" of having lots of jump jets.
Made me realize that sometimes the max engine isn't a good thing.
Made me realize that my better performing builds were "meta"...the horror, the horror.
Made me a realize that sometimes his builds aren't so hot (he had LRMS on his Quickdraw 4H for the longest time), which gave me the self confidence to try new things.
Made me finally break the habit of always building to the lore and instead build to the Alpha (mostly).
Made me a better player.

So all you T1 tryhards hating on metamechs and Gman for not posting what you think of as the perfect Kodiak build? Well, FU.
Dude and his site may not be perfect, but he has done more to advance the game and its newer players than ANY of you.

[L3mming2]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 20 May 2016 - 04:25 PM, said:

Funny thing is, I don't see any major correlation because I see the same irrational drivel from tier 1 players as well, tiers are not an assurance of an understanding of the game and I have seen non-tier 1 players actually have a better understanding than some tier 1s on these very forums.

i think the reasoning behind it is; you got stupid ppl every where, they will never learn.

at low tiers you got 2 kinds of ppl smart (and i mean smart in the sence of game understanding and stuff) and stupid.

the smart ppl dont realy know more about the game cause they are new... but they learn and get better over time (the stupid ppl dont... )

the smart ppl will as a result tier up faster when they play more games over time. the stupid ppl will tier up much slower (ore not at all)

by the time a smart person reaches T1 he will understand most of the game. when and if the stupid person gets to t1 he still wont have learned a load but he would have to have played so manny games that only very few of them make it...

tldr

low tiers = stupids (scrubs) and smart noobs

high tiers = a few verry persistend stupids and smarts that have learnd how the game works


ps yes this is a simplification but the core idea behind it statisticaly speaking right.

ofc its inportand to look at the content of the post first, but if it sounds "strange" its not unreasonable to look at the poster too..

and yes if a T4 ore 5 keeps insisting cUAC2's are gr8t now, i ignore it.
but if guys like proton, twinky, mcgral... ect say it is good now i will go and test it before i write it off...

[L3mming2]

live1991, on 21 May 2016 - 04:09 AM, said:

Nope

http://metamechs.com...ists/comp-list/

See this page its the http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a1dd02b12ac23dc

http://metamechs.com...meta-tier-list/

top tier =/= top tier in a sertain range bracet

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Sabertooth1966, on 19 May 2016 - 05:26 PM, said:

That CT death may not be fully a design issue. Since it has a clan engine I think mot players, including me, try to just core out the CT as quickly as possible to get it dead.

Also CT is both the **** and the head. So aim at either of those and you'll core it out fast enough.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

L3mming2, on 21 May 2016 - 05:06 AM, said:

at low tiers you got 2 kinds of ppl smart (and i mean smart in the sence of game understanding and stuff) and stupid.

the smart ppl dont realy know more about the game cause they are new... but they learn and get better over time (the stupid ppl dont... )

the smart ppl will as a result tier up faster when they play more games over time. the stupid ppl will tier up much slower (ore not at all)

by the time a smart person reaches T1 he will understand most of the game. when and if the stupid person gets to t1 he still wont have learned a load but he would have to have played so manny games that only very few of them make it...

I like your reasoning here, its been my own for awhile now.

After tiers came about and I started in T3 I noticed I still had a bit to learn and so I did. Now I'm still on my way to get into T1 in under 2000 matches (I play casually and solo for the most part rather than being on every day with a team) and trying to figure out anything I don't already know. I find it fun to understand the mechanics of any game I play.

[Gyrok]

L3mming2, on 21 May 2016 - 05:21 AM, said:

http://metamechs.com...meta-tier-list/

top tier =/= top tier in a sertain range bracet

I think you fail to understand precisely what those lists are actually trying to postulate.

[Bishop Steiner]

L3mming2, on 21 May 2016 - 05:06 AM, said:

i think the reasoning behind it is; you got stupid ppl every where, they will never learn.

at low tiers you got 2 kinds of ppl smart (and i mean smart in the sence of game understanding and stuff) and stupid.

the smart ppl dont realy know more about the game cause they are new... but they learn and get better over time (the stupid ppl dont... )

the smart ppl will as a result tier up faster when they play more games over time. the stupid ppl will tier up much slower (ore not at all)

by the time a smart person reaches T1 he will understand most of the game. when and if the stupid person gets to t1 he still wont have learned a load but he would have to have played so manny games that only very few of them make it...

tldr

low tiers = stupids (scrubs) and smart noobs

high tiers = a few verry persistend stupids and smarts that have learnd how the game works


ps yes this is a simplification but the core idea behind it statisticaly speaking right.

ofc its inportand to look at the content of the post first, but if it sounds "strange" its not unreasonable to look at the poster too..

and yes if a T4 ore 5 keeps insisting cUAC2's are gr8t now, i ignore it.
but if guys like proton, twinky, mcgral... ect say it is good now i will go and test it before i write it off...

you forget the tier 1s who mostly play team (far easier to advance) and get by on following orders and great reflexes. If forum posts are any indication, the % of those is probably higher than the "smart" ones.

Not saying as a whole that Tier 1 doesn't have a higher percentage of players with a clue than other tiers, because it does, just saying that achieving tier 1 is affected by so many factors that assuming it infers actual understanding of the game, is not a guarantee, not by a long shot.

It's kinda like university. Yes you got some very smart cookies who went and graduated. You also have a lot of vapid idiots who just regurgitate back what they heard without learning to actually think for themselves. (And yes, just like with university, the percentage dummies amongst those who didn't attend is even higher. But then again, you also have those Steve Jobs types who never finished college, sometime never went, who are often as smart or smarter than any of the Ivy Leaguers, in actuality.)

I guess the moral of the story is that history, anthropology, etc all show us that the human condition is that the majority aren't exactly thinkers, at any given time, but that yes, the further up the ladder you climb in any endeavor, the more the percentage of thinker t sheep equalizes.

[J0anna]

Actually like the KDK-4 the most......

[Bishop Steiner]

J0anna, on 21 May 2016 - 07:42 AM, said:

Actually like the KDK-4 the most......

It's a fun variant. Still get to pack my Double-Dakka, so I'm pretty happy with it, and the arm mounts allow me to have some variety to my approach, so it's not as boring as most KDK3 I see.

I still like the 3 best, atm, but that's because long before we had KDKs, I always liked Dakka. My main rides are HBKs and CN9s, and I love the RFL-3N, for a reason.

[Gyrok]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 May 2016 - 07:45 AM, said:

It's a fun variant. Still get to pack my Double-Dakka, so I'm pretty happy with it, and the arm mounts allow me to have some variety to my approach, so it's not as boring as most KDK3 I see.

I still like the 3 best, atm, but that's because long before we had KDKs, I always liked Dakka. My main rides are HBKs and CN9s, and I love the RFL-3N, for a reason.

My first "main ride" was the Murdermets with buzzsaw UAC5s, ever so long ago....dakkadakkadakkadakkadakka....

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

LegendaryArticuno, on 19 May 2016 - 04:50 PM, said:

Is Metamechs a joke now? They ranked this loadout as a Tier 1 build?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7a36ec7096583d6

Its been a joke since long as I can remember...

...people have been using meta mechs seriously in the past 3 years?

[pwnface]

Khobai, on 19 May 2016 - 04:51 PM, said:

metamechs has always been a joke

Why do so many people quote metamechs like its a goddamn bible?

[Bishop Steiner]

Gyrok, on 21 May 2016 - 07:57 AM, said:

My first "main ride" was the Murdermets with buzzsaw UAC5s, ever so long ago....dakkadakkadakkadakkadakka....

good times.

Still preferred the more pedestrian 2xAC10, 2xMLasers, 340xl and 109 shots of ammo, personally, but I'm weird like that. Pre Clans it's was downright mean as a hunter killer, though, at that speed.

[J0anna]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 May 2016 - 07:45 AM, said:

It's a fun variant. Still get to pack my Double-Dakka, so I'm pretty happy with it, and the arm mounts allow me to have some variety to my approach, so it's not as boring as most KDK3 I see.

I still like the 3 best, atm, but that's because long before we had KDKs, I always liked Dakka. My main rides are HBKs and CN9s, and I love the RFL-3N, for a reason.

Yeah, it's nice to actually have a clan assault you can push with (of course some will complain that anything the clans can use is by nature OP). As far as Metamechs goes, it's an opinion, and while not bad, it's isn't gospel. For example, I would never place the Summoner below the Ice Ferret on ANY tier list - but he does. Oh has anyone heard when we're getting the female pilot?

[Bishop Steiner]

J0anna, on 21 May 2016 - 08:14 AM, said:

Oh has anyone heard when we're getting the female pilot?

No, not specifics.

I expect the 14 yr olds (or more usually the 40 year olds emotionally locked at 14) to start demanding to be able to use it naked though.

Because, you know.... video games.

[Steve Pryde]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 May 2016 - 08:20 AM, said:

No, not specifics.

I expect the 14 yr olds (or more usually the 40 year olds emotionally locked at 14) to start demanding to be able to use it naked though.

Because, you know.... video games.

Funny thing is, normaly mechwarrior pilots are almost naked.

[Bud Crue]

pwnface, on 21 May 2016 - 08:03 AM, said:

Why do so many people quote metamechs like its a goddamn bible?

Because it is one of the few resources available that is recognized for providing a good set of builds and which can be justified as as being good if not ideal for a given mech that anyone can easily understand. Metamechs provides guidance for builds that are based on something other than lore or simple "I just like this" mentality. Metamechs is cited because it provides good, general guidance for builds that allow players a starting point for understanding how to maximize the potential of a given mech.

Is it flawless? No of course not, but it is damn useful and a great resource, that nearly all of us, except a few obviously elite comp level players can recognize as providing an excellent service for us plebs. So until you, and people like you care to share your perfect or vastly superior builds as well as your justification for why you think they are the best for a given mech (like metamechs does) what other resource does the average player have as a reference? Yes there are other sites, but everyone knows metamechs, so it is a good point of reference even for someone who doesn't need or want its advice.

Edited by Bud Crue, 21 May 2016 - 08:25 AM.

[Yosharian]

80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie, on 21 May 2016 - 08:01 AM, said:

Its been a joke since long as I can remember...

...people have been using meta mechs seriously in the past 3 years?

Check this guy out

2edgy4me

pwnface, on 21 May 2016 - 08:03 AM, said:

Why do so many people quote metamechs like its a goddamn bible?

Such as... who, exactly?

The only people in here (and on reddit) defending it simply state that it's a decent guide for good mech builds, not that it's 'the Bible'.

I'm sure that won't stop you and your super-effective straw-man though

Edited by Yosharian, 21 May 2016 - 08:29 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Steve Pryde, on 21 May 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

Funny thing is, normaly mechwarrior pilots are almost naked.

yes, because the original stories were written by adult adolescents with no understanding of actual life in high heat military vehicles. And because half or more of 70s/early 80s SciFi was softporn.

But still a valid point.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 21 May 2016 - 08:30 AM.