1017 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Gyrok, on 13 June 2016 - 06:46 AM, said:

Structure quirks m8.

Consider the structure quirks on the BLR-2C.

Additionally...everyone still runs IS XL engines, even though you say it is a death sentence, the best IS mechs run XLs, and they run them very well.

If you think I am lying, ask any of the comp guys...quicksilver, gas guzzler, aresye...hell any of them will tell you what I am saying is true.

Heck Jman ran an XL in his HBK-4J, at least back beforethey ruined it.

XL.
Hunchback.


Nutbar.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Okay, so I finally got caught up on bills and got myself the basic Kodiak pack.

Wow.

I don't know if my build is what everyone else is running, I just went with what felt right. 3 variant, XL375, 4 UAC10, MK 2 targ comp, 9 tons ammo.

No basics, in group queue, got 1293 damage 4 kills and ran out of ammo. I missed quite a lot of shots.

I truely felt like a god. The high mounts are ridiculous.

A poor DakkaWhale got demolished without being able to fight back effectively, as I was lower and he blasted a lot of shots into his cover.

It feels so agile for a 100 tonner with this kind of firepower, and it is only with the 375. A real Clan Assault mech.

[Bishop Steiner]

Afuldan McKronik, on 13 June 2016 - 07:18 AM, said:

Okay, so I finally got caught up on bills and got myself the basic Kodiak pack.

Wow.

I don't know if my build is what everyone else is running, I just went with what felt right. 3 variant, XL375, 4 UAC10, MK 2 targ comp, 9 tons ammo.

No basics, in group queue, got 1293 damage 4 kills and ran out of ammo. I missed quite a lot of shots.

I truely felt like a god. The high mounts are ridiculous.

A poor DakkaWhale got demolished without being able to fight back effectively, as I was lower and he blasted a lot of shots into his cover.

It feels so agile for a 100 tonner with this kind of firepower, and it is only with the 375. A real Clan Assault mech.

Nice though I find you highlighted one of the flaws with the UAC10 build (though it feels great, which is apparently not allowed)

Capable of high dmg, but sloppy as heck. 1300 dmg is great...but only 4 kills with? Not a knock on you as it mirrored my usual results, in that's a very powerful feeling machine that puts up great dmg numbers, but very inefficient all thing said and done at killing. Even McGrals splash screens he posted were unusually low kills for dmg. Either that or I keep my Kill/Dmg standard unreasonably high. But 1300 dmg SHOULD in most cases net about 6-7 kills with an efficient machine. (obviously we all have those matches where we just can't seem to seal the deal, but I have a lot more of them with my KDK3 than with my KDK4 or SB, both which average lower dmg, but higher kills).

*shrug*

Good machine. Possible that the 3 is too good. If so, still want a fix that will actually "fix" the problem.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 June 2016 - 07:26 AM, said:

Nice though I find you highlighted one of the flaws with the UAC10 build (though it feels great, which is apparently not allowed)

Capable of high dmg, but sloppy as heck. 1300 dmg is great...but only 4 kills with? Not a knock on you as it mirrored my usual results, in that's a very powerful feeling machine that puts up great dmg numbers, but very inefficient all thing said and done at killing. Even McGrals splash screens he posted were unusually low kills for dmg. Either that or I keep my Kill/Dmg standard unreasonably high. But 1300 dmg SHOULD in most cases net about 6-7 kills with an efficient machine. (obviously we all have those matches where we just can't seem to seal the deal, but I have a lot more of them with my KDK3 than with my KDK4 or SB, both which average lower dmg, but higher kills).

*shrug*

Good machine. Possible that the 3 is too good. If so, still want a fix that will actually "fix" the problem.

Its a problem with my playstyle, Bishop. ADHD and mecha means I leave a lot of mechs open to be kill stolen*ahem* kill shared by teammates.

[Darth Hotz]

Afuldan McKronik, on 13 June 2016 - 07:18 AM, said:

Okay, so I finally got caught up on bills and got myself the basic Kodiak pack.

Wow.

I don't know if my build is what everyone else is running, I just went with what felt right. 3 variant, XL375, 4 UAC10, MK 2 targ comp, 9 tons ammo.

No basics, in group queue, got 1293 damage 4 kills and ran out of ammo. I missed quite a lot of shots.

I truely felt like a god. The high mounts are ridiculous.

A poor DakkaWhale got demolished without being able to fight back effectively, as I was lower and he blasted a lot of shots into his cover.

It feels so agile for a 100 tonner with this kind of firepower, and it is only with the 375. A real Clan Assault mech.

Bishop Steiner, on 13 June 2016 - 07:26 AM, said:

Nice though I find you highlighted one of the flaws with the UAC10 build (though it feels great, which is apparently not allowed)

Capable of high dmg, but sloppy as heck. 1300 dmg is great...but only 4 kills with? Not a knock on you as it mirrored my usual results, in that's a very powerful feeling machine that puts up great dmg numbers, but very inefficient all thing said and done at killing. Even McGrals splash screens he posted were unusually low kills for dmg. Either that or I keep my Kill/Dmg standard unreasonably high. But 1300 dmg SHOULD in most cases net about 6-7 kills with an efficient machine. (obviously we all have those matches where we just can't seem to seal the deal, but I have a lot more of them with my KDK3 than with my KDK4 or SB, both which average lower dmg, but higher kills).

*shrug*

Good machine. Possible that the 3 is too good. If so, still want a fix that will actually "fix" the problem.

I dont get it.

There is a dude explaining that in his first matches in his KDK 3 he felt like a god on the battlefield, missing a lot of shoots and still doing 1293 dmg.

Then Bishop comes and explains that having only 4 kills while doing 1293 dmg show the inefficiency and sloopyness of the KDK 3 that need to be fixed.

Hard to believe...

[Afuldan McKronik]

Darth Hotz, on 13 June 2016 - 07:43 AM, said:

I dont get it.

There is a dude explaining that in his first matches in his KDK 3 he felt like a god on the battlefield, missing a lot of shoots and still doing 1293 dmg.

Then Bishop comes and explains that having only 4 kills while doing 1293 dmg show the inefficiency and sloopyness of the KDK 3 that need to be fixed.

Hard to believe...

All about the loadout. I had a QP match last night where out of 3 KDK-3, I was the only one to break 500. On a loss. First mech dead.

The other loadouts were damn near stock mechs.

[Afuldan McKronik]

How are the KDK-4, 5, and SB? I only played the 3 due to not having much cbills stacked up yet.

[Bishop Steiner]

Darth Hotz, on 13 June 2016 - 07:43 AM, said:

I dont get it.

There is a dude explaining that in his first matches in his KDK 3 he felt like a god on the battlefield, missing a lot of shoots and still doing 1293 dmg.

Then Bishop comes and explains that having only 4 kills while doing 1293 dmg show the inefficiency and sloopyness of the KDK 3 that need to be fixed.

Hard to believe...

Not really for you to get. I'm talking to Afuldan, not you. He's not upset, yet here you are riding out to prpotect him anyhow.

Unbelievable.

Afuldan McKronik, on 13 June 2016 - 07:48 AM, said:

All about the loadout. I had a QP match last night where out of 3 KDK-3, I was the only one to break 500. On a loss. First mech dead.

The other loadouts were damn near stock mechs.

Seen a lot of ups and downs, but the KDK3 does avg (with reasonable builds anyhow) a whole lot heavier dmg than avg. As I was commenting, not on your skill level, but the nature of spread/burst DPS dmg. Like SRMs, situationally LRMs, etc, they can lead to massive damage scores. Scores that in other Mechs you probably would have done similar kills, for 2/3 the damage.

If there is an "issue" it's this game rewards damage too heavily, when it' can often be an empty stat. (As can kills without context)

I like the focus on Kill: Most Dmg Dealt and Solo Kills, but feel that dmg itself gets way overrated.

Using my own play as an example, my KDK3 has about 200 higher avg dmg than my HBK. My HBK has a higher kills per match average. Simple difference is PPFLD tends to kill more efficiently. Period. Not a knock on you, or the KDK3 which is a beautiful death machine. Just a sloppy eater.

I've also seen Quad10s in the sub 500 dmg a fair bit, simply by din't of people not panicking and flanking, using sniping, or better yet distracting them while a friendly Oxide eats their kidneys.

But of course, some folks on here are just going to look for reasons to take umbrage to anything I say.

*Shrug* Enjoy it while it lasts bro. Clock is ticking away on the 3, and judging by some comments, the whole KDK clan before they all get turned into pumpkins.

[Bishop Steiner]

Afuldan McKronik, on 13 June 2016 - 07:55 AM, said:

How are the KDK-4, 5, and SB? I only played the 3 due to not having much cbills stacked up yet.

The 4 is my absolute favorite.

Nice balanced loadouts, hit hard, very nice. My build is probably not the avg:
KDK-4

Spirit Bear is a real nice scoot and splat Mech. I haven't really leveraged it as well as I should because I haven't found that "perfect" keybind to make MASC a more normal use for me, But when I do get it right, that 90 kph scoot in, blast, then re-engage and scoot out is a hoot. It has the same fragility of any KDK without the fear factor of quad UAC10s to keep people from getting too aggressive, but it can be mean. I also run a pair of flamers on it in case I need to duel, so I can heatlock their guns, and keep blasting with SRMs.
SPIRIT BEAR
tried running it with a LB20X but just didn't seem to do as well. Others seem to prefer it though.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 June 2016 - 07:59 AM, said:

Not really for you to get. I'm talking to Afuldan, not you. He's not upset, yet here you are riding out to prpotect him anyhow.

Unbelievable.


Seen a lot of ups and downs, but the KDK3 does avg (with reasonable builds anyhow) a whole lot heavier dmg than avg. As I was commenting, not on your skill level, but the nature of spread/burst DPS dmg. Like SRMs, situationally LRMs, etc, they can lead to massive damage scores. Scores that in other Mechs you probably would have done similar kills, for 2/3 the damage.

If there is an "issue" it's this game rewards damage too heavily, when it' can often be an empty stat. (As can kills without context)

I like the focus on Kill: Most Dmg Dealt and Solo Kills, but feel that dmg itself gets way overrated.

Using my own play as an example, my KDK3 has about 200 higher avg dmg than my HBK. My HBK has a higher kills per match average. Simple difference is PPFLD tends to kill more efficiently. Period. Not a knock on you, or the KDK3 which is a beautiful death machine. Just a sloppy eater.

I've also seen Quad10s in the sub 500 dmg a fair bit, simply by din't of people not panicking and flanking, using sniping, or better yet distracting them while a friendly Oxide eats their kidneys.

But of course, some folks on here are just going to look for reasons to take umbrage to anything I say.

*Shrug* Enjoy it while it lasts bro. Clock is ticking away on the 3, and judging by some comments, the whole KDK clan before they all get turned into pumpkins.

Eh, it seems that it is in a spot where it can actually fight back against the quirked demigods of MAL and BNC.

I knew the loadout was sloppy. It is sloppy on the DWF also, but the extra speed plus high mounts makes it feel so much better. Mr DakkaWolf needs help, rather than nerf the Kodiak chassis. I think the Kodiak has just pointed out the flaws with most other Clan Assaults.

Knuckle draggers, or limited podspace for the size of mech. Neither of which the Kodiak is. Plus it gets a fairly large engine cap, which is what cripples the Dire Wolf.

In short, it can do what many IS chassis do, decent speed with a decent loadout with decent hardpoints. And people are afraid of it.

[Roadkill]

Mcgral18, on 12 June 2016 - 01:06 PM, said:

The 375 Kodiak is more agile than the WubShee, deal with it.

You're talking about two different things. Gyrok was responding to someone who said the KDK-3 was more mobile than the WubShee, which it is not.

Mobility is primarily affected by top speed, though accel/decel and turn rate do come into play.

Agility is primarily affected by turn rate and twist rate.

The WubShee is more mobile. The KDK-3 is more agile. Which, in both cases, is appropriate for their roles. The KDK-3 is more of a true brawler, while the WubShee is more of a striker/assassin.

[Bishop Steiner]

Afuldan McKronik, on 13 June 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:

Eh, it seems that it is in a spot where it can actually fight back against the quirked demigods of MAL and BNC.

I knew the loadout was sloppy. It is sloppy on the DWF also, but the extra speed plus high mounts makes it feel so much better. Mr DakkaWolf needs help, rather than nerf the Kodiak chassis. I think the Kodiak has just pointed out the flaws with most other Clan Assaults.

Knuckle draggers, or limited podspace for the size of mech. Neither of which the Kodiak is. Plus it gets a fairly large engine cap, which is what cripples the Dire Wolf.

In short, it can do what many IS chassis do, decent speed with a decent loadout with decent hardpoints. And people are afraid of it.

Yup. though I find not as afraid as they used to be, a lot are adapting. It's funny the things about that build that do get overlooked, too. DPS vs PPFLD, Fast and Agile for an Assault is still not THAT Fast and Agile, and those UACs get hot pretty fast. And unsupported, still can get ganked hard by a Jenny II or Oxide.

That said, still a dang good mech, and conceivably too good, at least according to some. That said, I got bored of mine real fast, and also wen't to a 2xUAC10/1xUAC20 build because I missed my 400xl.
Bored Bear

Roadkill, on 13 June 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

You're talking about two different things. Gyrok was responding to someone who said the KDK-3 was more mobile than the WubShee, which it is not.

Mobility is primarily affected by top speed, though accel/decel and turn rate do come into play.

Agility is primarily affected by turn rate and twist rate.

The WubShee is more mobile. The KDK-3 is more agile. Which, in both cases, is appropriate for their roles. The KDK-3 is more of a true brawler, while the WubShee is more of a striker/assassin.

and the Spirit Bear is that bruiser hiding in a dark alley waiting to smack you with his club, then scoot. So much more fun than the traditional Tank and Lumber role of Assaults.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 13 June 2016 - 08:19 AM.

[WarHippy]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 June 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

The 4 is my absolute favorite.

Nice balanced loadouts, hit hard, very nice. My build is probably not the avg:
KDK-4

Spirit Bear is a real nice scoot and splat Mech. I haven't really leveraged it as well as I should because I haven't found that "perfect" keybind to make MASC a more normal use for me, But when I do get it right, that 90 kph scoot in, blast, then re-engage and scoot out is a hoot. It has the same fragility of any KDK without the fear factor of quad UAC10s to keep people from getting too aggressive, but it can be mean. I also run a pair of flamers on it in case I need to duel, so I can heatlock their guns, and keep blasting with SRMs.
SPIRIT BEAR
tried running it with a LB20X but just didn't seem to do as well. Others seem to prefer it though.

KDK-4 is my personal favorite as well. The Spirit Bear narrowly beats out the KDK-3 for second choice primarily because I like how it handles and I have always been a fan of SRMs.

KDK-1 seems solid for the most part, but the KDK-5 I have struggled to find a build I like.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 June 2016 - 08:14 AM, said:

Yup. though I find not as afraid as they used to be, a lot are adapting. It's funny the things about that build that do get overlooked, too. DPS vs PPFLD, Fast and Agile for an Assault is still not THAT Fast and Agile, and those UACs get hot pretty fast. And unsupported, still can get ganked hard by a Jenny II or Oxide.

That said, still a dang good mech, and conceivably too good, at least according to some. That said, I got bored of mine real fast, and also wen't to a 2xUAC10/1xUAC20 build because I missed my 400xl.


and the Spirit Bear is that bruiser hiding in a dark alley waiting to smack you with his club, then scoot. So much more fun than the traditional Tank and Lumber role of Assaults.

I am holding out on even looking at the loadout on the Spirit Bear, that thing seems deadly. Little different than the D-DC loadout I am used to, but much quicker in short bursts. Which is where the whole Atlas brawler line suffers. Most mechs over 80 KPH reverse faster than the Atlas advances, so it can be kited along into death.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Does anyone else think the quad UAC/5 Kodiak is a problem?
Or the dual Gauss dual PPC Kodiak, is that a problem?

If Yes, then the Kodiak3 needs a tuning nerf.
If No, then the UAC/10 probably needs a ghost heat hike to stem the 40pts volleys.

Anyone disagree? Care to vote on if those above loadouts are "problems" or is it just the UAC/10 ?

[Afuldan McKronik]

Prosperity Park, on 13 June 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

Does anyone else think the quad UAC/5 Kodiak is a problem?
Or the dual Gauss dual PPC Kodiak, is that a problem?

If Yes, then the Kodiak3 needs a tuning nerf.
If No, then the UAC/10 probably needs a ghost heat hike to stem the 40pts volleys.

Anyone disagree? Care to vote on if those above loadouts are "problems" or is it just the UAC/10 ?

The Quad UAC10 already has huge GH. I find its better to use it as a big DPS maniac. The 80 point volleys are nice to have but at the cost of about 40% heat scale.

[Bishop Steiner]

Afuldan McKronik, on 13 June 2016 - 08:18 AM, said:

I am holding out on even looking at the loadout on the Spirit Bear, that thing seems deadly. Little different than the D-DC loadout I am used to, but much quicker in short bursts. Which is where the whole Atlas brawler line suffers. Most mechs over 80 KPH reverse faster than the Atlas advances, so it can be kited along into death.

Spirit Bear can really move.

BUT....
1) it is also comparatively fragile (huge CT, like all KDKs, without the fire and fury of 4 UAC10s to dissuade return fire)
2) Runs hotter than Smurfy would lead you to believe
3) Doesn't pack near the PP-FLD the Atlas does since:
- AC20 vs full duration burst of UAC20
-IS SRMs are heavier but group better and do more dmg.
4) Doesn't have 149 pts bonus Structure to soak.

Mind you, I'm not saying that it isn't good, even darn good. But that it has a very defined character because of it's Pros/Cons compared to other Assaults, and despite a similar hardpoint layout, plays NOTHING like the AS7-S.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 June 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

plays NOTHING like the AS7-S.

Oh it plays like a AS7-S, the only main difference between how these two play is the approach and positioning before the brawl. Once the brawl or push starts though, they are very similar in play style.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 June 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

Spirit Bear can really move.

BUT....
1) it is also comparatively fragile (huge CT, like all KDKs, without the fire and fury of 4 UAC10s to dissuade return fire)
2) Runs hotter than Smurfy would lead you to believe
3) Doesn't pack near the PP-FLD the Atlas does since:
- AC20 vs full duration burst of UAC20
-IS SRMs are heavier but group better and do more dmg.
4) Doesn't have 149 pts bonus Structure to soak.

Mind you, I'm not saying that it isn't good, even darn good. But that it has a very defined character because of it's Pros/Cons compared to other Assaults, and despite a similar hardpoint layout, plays NOTHING like the AS7-S.

Awesome, it was actually the reason I haven't tried it. Was looking like the same play style. I do like your other description of the loadout.

[Bishop Steiner]

Prosperity Park, on 13 June 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

Does anyone else think the quad UAC/5 Kodiak is a problem?
Or the dual Gauss dual PPC Kodiak, is that a problem?

If Yes, then the Kodiak3 needs a tuning nerf.
If No, then the UAC/10 probably needs a ghost heat hike to stem the 40pts volleys.

Anyone disagree? Care to vote on if those above loadouts are "problems" or is it just the UAC/10 ?

From what Quicksilver has said, the 2x Gauss/2x ERPPC and 2x UAC10/2x UAC5 seem to be the "pro builds" (unless they have evolved already).

Yet the only one I see constant QQ over is the 4x UAC10 build. It is possible that those other builds are just as dangerous or more, but cause less QQ because they are not as sloppy and causing tons of splash damage to inflate scores. After all, nothing get's cries of OP quicker than inflated Dmg. You have a guy who gets 4 kills with 600 dmg, and another that gets 4 kills with 1200 damage, who gets the attention? Despite the fact that the 600 dmg guy was probably a whole lot more efficient at killing the other team, all people see is "1200 dmg ZOMG!!! NERF PLOX!!!!"

Again, though I am not against some well thought out potential nerfs to the KDK3.

The issue, as I have repeatedly stated, is that simply stripping the Quirks from the KDK will have minimal effect outside of the top tiers of play, because most people do not know how to make use of that agility AND 4 large DPS weapons. People stare in this game, the vast majority do. That is fact.

And, simply adding Jam% to UAC10s for the KDK only affects that one build... yet it seems that the top guys are already using other builds more effectively anyhow, so does that actually slay Goliath? IDK.

What I don't want, again, is to see nerfs tossed at it that prove ineffective, only to have continued QQ, and yet more nerfs tossed at not just the KDK3, but all KDKs, in typicla PGI fashion, and see a repeat of the SNAFU that was the VTR/HGN anti-poptart Nerfs.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 June 2016 - 08:34 AM, said:

Oh it plays like a AS7-S, the only main difference between how these two play is the approach and positioning before the brawl. Once the brawl or push starts though, they are very similar in play style.

So it sits there and tanks an extra 150 dmg?

And you'll have to excuse my newbness, but I feel positioning and such is pretty key and critical to defining how a mech plays. Laying out damage when it's time to facehug is pretty much laying out damage. I find that a Wubshee plays a hell of a lot like an AS/-S too when it's time to facehug.

I also find how mechs get played in teamplay still varies greatly from PUG play. YMMV I guess.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 13 June 2016 - 08:41 AM.