1017 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

you can nerf it now, i finished mastering it. and the other 2 arent even elited yet.

[Jackal Noble]

Duh.

[Triordinant]

They probably won't nerf it until the World Championships are over.

[Reza Malin]

Gyrok, on 04 June 2016 - 06:02 PM, said:

So, you cite the tournament as correlation for your point, then turn around and say that skill gaps make it irrelevant?

My, the goal posts move so quickly.

Bishop Steiner, on 08 June 2016 - 06:51 PM, said:

and yet KDK so OP...that Assault percentage is back down 15-20% below Heavy in Queue.

Odd, with so OP, you'd expect it to stay packed.

So the latest news is in.

61 out of 68 assault mechs in the World Championships are KDK-3.

Shocker!

Clearly this must be a massive coincidence surely?

Can you enlighten us about how this could possibly have happened?

Ha ha ha, can't make this **** up. Love it.

[Jackal Noble]

Fade Akira, on 09 June 2016 - 03:48 PM, said:

So the latest news is in.

61 out of 68 assault mechs in the World Championships are KDK-3.

Shocker!

Clearly this must be a massive coincidence surely?

Can you enlighten us about how this could possibly have happened?

Ha ha ha, can't make this **** up. Love it.

How many 100 ton mechs are there in the game?

[IQcreditscore]

No other kodiaks need a buff!!!
First assaults I ever owned. Only average 600 damage per game in kdk3. 350 to 500 in other kodiaks. plz fix naow!

llllllllllllllllllllllllllloooooooooooooooooooooooooool

[Reza Malin]

JackalBeast, on 09 June 2016 - 03:59 PM, said:

How many 100 ton mechs are there in the game?

What has tonnage got to do with anything?

[Baulven]

I have a serious question at this point. What exactly is being asked for in regards to Kodiak changes?

[Jackal Noble]

Fade Akira, on 09 June 2016 - 04:03 PM, said:

What has tonnage got to do with anything?

OK..
Well, let's see here, the tournament is set up, 2-2-2-2, lights meds, heavies and assaults. Assuming you know that but you never know.
There is no tonnage restriction.
Based on the presumption that a 100 ton mech should have more potential than say a 90 ton or a 85 ton mech. Not super certain on that but pretty frickin sure. OK so now going with that theory, of the 100 ton mechs, we have the Daishi, the Kodiak, and the king crab. So there are three options , the kdk is the new mech on the block with the 3 having it's spot in the limelight for its ballistic capability.
Whine about something else.

Edited by JackalBeast, 09 June 2016 - 04:37 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Baulven, on 09 June 2016 - 04:17 PM, said:

I have a serious question at this point. What exactly is being asked for in regards to Kodiak changes?

depends on whom you ask, and where you look. Anything from simple increased jam on the UACs to removing agility buffs to removing structure quirks to nerfing every KDK model into oblivion. Seems to depend, in mos tcases on how badly one has had their paper doll touched by one.

[Sjorpha]

Baulven, on 09 June 2016 - 04:17 PM, said:

I have a serious question at this point. What exactly is being asked for in regards to Kodiak changes?

1. Removal of the positive quirks to structure and agility on the 3 variant.

2. Fixing the hitboxes because they are kind of messy and awkward.

That's it, those two changes are what most people are asking for.

[Jackal Noble]

NOT. GONNA. HAPPEN.

[Reza Malin]

JackalBeast, on 09 June 2016 - 04:33 PM, said:

OK..
Well, let's see here, the tournament is set up, 2-2-2-2, lights meds, heavies and assaults. Assuming you know that but you never know.
There is no tonnage restriction.
Based on the presumption that a 100 ton mech should have more potential than say a 90 ton or a 85 ton mech. Not super certain on that but pretty frickin sure. OK so now going with that theory, of the 100 ton mechs, we have the Daishi, the Kodiak, and the king crab. So there are three options , the kdk is the new mech on the block with the 3 having it's spot in the limelight for its ballistic capability.
Whine about something else.

Mate, i will assume from you post and your passive aggressive air of superiority that you are new here.

The tonnage makes no difference. Otherwise, people would only play 55 ton mediums, 75 ton heavies and 100 ton Assaults right?

The fact is, many mechs are viable, a few aren't really ever viable, and occasionally some need looking at.

61 out of 68, its pretty clear to me that the KDK-3 needs looking at. Especially remembering these are tournament teams here, this isn't a release mech leaderboard event. These are comp players playing for over $100k.....they will use the best mechs.

And so.........61 out of 68......please have a word with yourself and grow up with your stupid comment about whining. I am guessing you own a KDK-3. Man up and realise it is slightly OP.

Edited by Fade Akira, 09 June 2016 - 04:49 PM.

[Reza Malin]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 June 2016 - 04:36 PM, said:

depends on whom you ask, and where you look. Anything from simple increased jam on the UACs to removing agility buffs to removing structure quirks to nerfing every KDK model into oblivion. Seems to depend, in mos tcases on how badly one has had their paper doll touched by one.

So far not one person i can see has called for "nerf to oblivion", most of the actual serious posts about it are fairly low on demands.

Still 61 out of 68 eh? Playing for $100K? Not OP though right?

[Darth Hotz]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 June 2016 - 04:36 PM, said:

depends on whom you ask, and where you look. Anything from simple increased jam on the UACs to removing agility buffs to removing structure quirks to nerfing every KDK model into oblivion. Seems to depend, in mos tcases on how badly one has had their paper doll touched by one.

"KDK model into oblivion"...please continue talking crap. I asked you before to show who ever asked for this. Fact is that the KDK 3 is still the most used assault in pug games and still outperforms most of the times. It looks like even a monkey can score 800 damage in it at least. Is this maybe why you dont want it to loose its agility quirks? Arent you also claiming that every idiot will eventually reach tier 1? Why havent you? Do you need the KDK 3 to finally reach your Mt Tryhard?

[Gyrok]

Lordhammer, on 06 June 2016 - 03:03 PM, said:

We were talking about agility standpoint. Dont pick words, out of context everything can be stretched to anywhere.

Assaults are supposed to be tanks, thats their job in the game, they provide area of denial for their team thus create a safe zone so enemy cant push easy, they are the anchor for their team. If a team loses too many assaults, an enemy assault push will end the game most of the time. They cannot be "be all end all" machines, kdk-3 does 36dps, show me a viable build that has anywhere near that number[(4x4)*2*(10/8.8)], on top of that dps enemy cant react because of cockpit shake, it has highest amount of armor possible, very agile for the tonnage and has very high hardpoints on top. A mech shouldnt have that many advantages. But if you dont believe my word, i'd like to link you to a great statistic post alistair made. It shows 61 out of 68 assaults mechs picked in the current tournament was kdk-3.

http://mwomercs.com/...to-analyze-mwo/

They are supposed to be the "be-all-end-all" machines...otherwise, if a heavy is just as good, but more nimble, why bother with an assault in the first place?

The place of the assault is overwhelming firepower. MWO knows no such thing as the archetypical tank of other games. The assault has no place as such because 5 mechs focusing will wipe an assault in a single volley. There will never be an archetypical tank in MWO unless you give assault mechs an extra 20 tons of armor for free...and that would unbalance everything horridly.

MischiefSC, on 06 June 2016 - 07:33 PM, said:

Again, not true.

Assaults have a place - however if that place is 'best mech on the field' we've done that. Remember when it was always assault mechs in the queue so they created 3/3/3/3? Because that's all anyone played, because they were flat out superior to other mechs.

The Banshee, Atlas and Mauler are on the twitchy edge of balanced. I'd like LPLs to have their beam duration increased a tiny bit and I think the weapon quirks on both Atlas and Mauler are questionable. I'd rather they get weapon quirks toned down a tiny bit and structure up (yes, even on the Atlas).

I'm all for long TTK because the end result of that will be bigger reward for better teamwork.

Problem with the KDK3 is that it pushes a bit beyond where those fit and that puts it even further into category of 'only sorta balanced'. Imbalanced and OP are mostly semantical.

The issue then was that assaults still moved fast enough to keep up with the group mostly.

Now, most mechs move significantly faster than any assault mech can sustain, and the few who get into fast heavy territory are either crap, or can only do so 15 seconds at a time with a significant wait for another full burn.

In this day and age, assaults *do* need mobility...they *do* need overwhelming firepower. Anything less than that means the opportunity cost versus a heavy is not worth it. That is especially true in the tonnage constricted group queue era.

[Jackal Noble]

Fair enough, yes I do own all the Kodiaks, and while I've certainly had my moments where I've pulled off some of my higher qp scores. Personally, I look at it this way for this game, the daishi is the epitome of clan firepower but moves like slug, the Kodiak 3 can carry about 3/4 of fires firepower but move 7/5ths the speed. Clanxl means hell all when its your CT that goes out. The KC imo is a beast of a mech and yet IDK, 61 out 68 as an example seems skewed, as what are the other classes most popular variants numbers. I apologise for the offense didn't mean to come off that ignorant.
I'm assuming you don't own a Kodiak.

[Gyrok]

Fade Akira, on 08 June 2016 - 05:24 PM, said:

Its probably because most people got sick of being hit by 16 x UAC 10's on bonkers high hardpoints, moving at 64KPH.

To that end i am sure many players simply went elsewhere for a bit, Warhammer Total War for myself for example.

When i logged in i noticed i had 17 notifications of douchebag comments from the usual likes of people that love the sound of their own comments berating my statements saying that the KDK-3 needed a slight nerf.

Not a huge nerf
Or a big nerf.
Or even a nerf.
Nope.
A slight nerf.

Lo and behold as i scroll further down the thread i find the winner of the tournament and several other good players have also said this is the case.

So now in post mortem, who is better to believe, people like Steiner and Mystere who shout people down yet are in fact nobodies? You know, the kind of people whose only semblance of an argument is "the other team must be potatoes".

Or maybe people that actually play the game seriously and at a decent level? Oh and happen to actually know what they are really talking about?

Yep, i will pick the somebodies thanks. Nice to know some decent people agree. Hopefully a nerf will be happening soon, i am sure it will be no surprise to see masses of KDK-3's in the championships....

Nobody has won the tournament yet mate...that will not happen for some time out.

Also, you have a member of SJR sitting here telling everyone to their face, the mech is not OP.

If you doubt me...fine...but one of the continual top comp teams in all of MWO has a significant member posting here to get the facts straight, and everyone is ignoring it outright.

[Reza Malin]

Gyrok, on 09 June 2016 - 05:08 PM, said:

Nobody has won the tournament yet mate...that will not happen for some time out.

Also, you have a member of SJR sitting here telling everyone to their face, the mech is not OP.

If you doubt me...fine...but one of the continual top comp teams in all of MWO has a significant member posting here to get the facts straight, and everyone is ignoring it outright.

I was referring to the leaderboard challenge winner, not the WC.

I don't doubt you, i have a lot of respect you from our past days when i was in your clan, the most fun times in MWO for me, but mainly because clan was still OP then as opposed to now, and we had some great people.

And i don't doubt other players saying its not OP, especially SJR. Its just a discussion, and i simply do not agree.

However, there is clearly a good reason people are picking a KDK-3 over anything else for 61 out of 68 mechs when $100k is up for grabs. That is simple fact.

Edited by Fade Akira, 09 June 2016 - 05:15 PM.

[Gyrok]

Fade Akira, on 09 June 2016 - 03:48 PM, said:

So the latest news is in.

61 out of 68 assault mechs in the World Championships are KDK-3.

Shocker!

Clearly this must be a massive coincidence surely?

Can you enlighten us about how this could possibly have happened?

Ha ha ha, can't make this **** up. Love it.

The only map is canyon network.

This was addressed earlier... above average mobility, combined with mid range engagement is the KDKs strong point. Had the map allowed long range engagements predictably, you would likely see many more BLRs with ERLLs, or BNCs with LPLs. Conversely, had it been frozen city or another map where brawls are most typical, you would have seen many more Atlases than anything else.

Using tournament data beyond anecdotal evidence is folly, because the conditions are primed for specific engagement ranges with lots are verticality on the map. Hence, the circumstances you are looking at are clouded by the choice of map.

Fade Akira, on 09 June 2016 - 05:12 PM, said:

I was referring to the leaderboard challenge winner, not the WC.

I don't doubt you, and i don't doubt other players saying its not OP. Its a discussion.

However, there is clearly a good reason people are picking a KDK-3 over anything else for 61 out of 68 mechs when $100k is up for grabs.

Addressed you in my post above.