1017 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 10 June 2016 - 07:15 AM, said:

You keep telling me "nobody wants to VTR Gioganerf the Kodiak, 1453. You're just being dumb."

Does that count? Bigger CT hitbox and flip colors on the current quirks?

I keep telling people - Piranha is trying to look Decisive these days by quickly* and firmly* acting on forum issues (that are easily able to be acted upon, anyways), given their fear of sliding back to 2013 in terms of customer relations. This means they're actually the exact opposite of that thing and have no real spine at all anymore. They will pay attention to all the Reddit numbskulls and the explosion of morons on this forum around the Kodiak release, and all of those guys want the chassis dead and buried forever.

If all Piranha does is Cull The Quirks™ and Fix the Hitboxes™, the way a handful of comps claim to want, then the forum will once again explode into grognard outrage about how they didn't go nearly far enough to ensure that big mean nasty Evil Cheating Baby-Eating Dakkabears got their comeuppance.

They're going to kill the KDK-3. Not adjust it, not tweak it, not massage it a bit, not 'dial it back', not 'bring it in line'. They are going to kill it. It will be rendered nigh unusable; a sick, sad joke to Ultracomps who'll look back and go "that used to be the 'Mech that won the World Championship". The only real hope we have left is that the rest of the Kodiaks will escape that fate and remain merely average.

A hope that grows fainter in my heart every time I stop by this thread, really.

this is true, because end of the day, the one variant (not even the comp variant) and build that people are getting so butthurt about? Literally won't be affected by losing it's quirks. The DakkaBear doesn't really make full use of that mobility because it needs facetime to shred stuff anyhow. And even with the accel/decel, it's not bumping in and out of fire lanes like a Centy or Hunchback. It'll make a minor impact, at best, at how fast it can track Lights and smaller mediums. Which aren't really the prey it pads it scores on, but bigger, slower Mediums to Assaults.

So IF they "simply removed the quirks/fixed the hitboxes", and when the DakkaBear actually gets STRONGER in QP because it's actually more durable for the staring matches that allow UACs to shine?

Then what?

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

1453 R, on 10 June 2016 - 07:15 AM, said:

You keep telling me "nobody wants to VTR Giganerf the Kodiak, 1453. You're just being dumb."

Does that count? Bigger CT hitbox and flip colors on the current quirks?

???

All the guys here are calling for very reasonable changes.

Fix hitboxes -- MAKE CT SMALLER (more like Atlas) is the demand. Then remove structure quirks from KDK-3. I don't see what is so hard to understand here. you are exaggerating by a lot. If anyone calls for negative quirks, rest assured, no one sane is supporting that.

for last few months PGI hasn't ham-handedly nerfed any mech. If they nerf all Kodiaks, the backlash will be huge.

Give KDK-1, KDK-5 quirks, remove from 3. That's all MischiefSC and the others on his side are asking for. I don't see how this is unreasonable. They want other variants also to perform as well. All they believe is, KDK-3 is good enough that it can perform evenly with IS assault mechs and doesn't need quirks to do so. That's all.

[Sjorpha]

The last two mechs they nerfed due to being overpowered was the blackjack and black knight, in both of those cases they simply toned the quirks down a bit. Same with other recent examples of underpowered mechs like the arrow, slight quirk buffs.

So what exactly is the reason to expect that they will go ridiculously overboard with the kodiak? Why not expect and argue for a simple quirk reduction like the bj and bk got.

Also even if I did expect them to go overboard, it still wouldn't be a relevant argument against the reasonable changes. We should argue for good things and against bad things. To defend one bad thinking the hope of preventing a worse thing is incredibly stupid, because it only leads to a polarized race of strawmen, exaggerations and non-communication, like what we see in this thread.

Such a hysterical discussion is more likely to provoke a hysterical response from PGI. By exaggerating one way you are not balancing the opposing exaggerations, not at all, instead what you are doing is to trigger each other into a spiral of increasing hyperbole. That is why threads like this are so harmful, this thread actually makes over the top changes much more likely even if the OP was intended as damage control. These harmful effects become even stronger if the rhetoric employed is bitter sarcasm, setting yourself up for deniability is the most toxic of all forum behaviour ("but all I said was...")

If what we actually want is a reasonable chance for the correct change, and If we do furgher agree that quirk reduction/removal plus better hitboxes is the correct change to the Kodiak, then we should rally behind promoting that good suggestion and against bad suggestions rather than waste time on this hyperbolic damage control reverse psychology nonsense.

[Bishop Steiner]

Keshav Murali, on 10 June 2016 - 07:35 AM, said:

???

All the guys here are calling for very reasonable changes.

Fix hitboxes -- MAKE CT SMALLER (more like Atlas) is the demand. Then remove structure quirks from KDK-3. I don't see what is so hard to understand here. you are exaggerating by a lot. If anyone calls for negative quirks, rest assured, no one sane is supporting that.

for last few months PGI hasn't ham-handedly nerfed any mech. If they nerf all Kodiaks, the backlash will be huge.

Give KDK-1, KDK-5 quirks, remove from 3. That's all MischiefSC and the others on his side are asking for. I don't see how this is unreasonable. They want other variants also to perform as well. All they believe is, KDK-3 is good enough that it can perform evenly with IS assault mechs and doesn't need quirks to do so. That's all.

mmm...not all. in these 35 pages (and still going, thanks Mischief and Company!) you've got the full gamut of reasonable to insane.

That said, I am still 100% unconvinced that losing the agility will actuall hurt the DakkaBear appreciably. Yes, a few of the top top players can leverage it, like McGral and Twinkie. The VAST majority of people using it are simply staring and facehugging. How can I be sure? Because that is how the majority of people play this game. Staring slackjawed at the other team like a 13 year old with his first issue of Penthouse.

And as such, nerfing the mobility, on a build that exists for mass DPS application, will have zero effect on 99% of the DakkaBears in play. None. Zip, nada. Because that's not the element being used and QQ'd about, anyhow. Mind you, it'll impact the FLDBears, as scoot and shoot is part and parcel. And so high tier FW matches and such will see them get hit. But which one of these insane-o "1000 dmg avg" (all what...2 of them?) are running the Gauss/PPC build? And that build takes too much "skill" to see adoption by the masses, anyhow.

So what I'm asking, is how that "fixes" the actual percieved problem, anyhow? As I said, shrink the CT.... all that happens is those StareBears (sounds better than DakkaBear, IMO) get STRONGER on avg, in QP, because they will be tougher and harder to kill in the average hands than they currently are.

And so when that nerf doesn't trickle down to seen results for the unwashed masses, what next?

Sjorpha, on 10 June 2016 - 08:03 AM, said:

The last two mechs they nerfed due to being overpowered was the blackjack and black knight, in both of those cases they simply toned the quirks down a bit. Same with other recent examples of underpowered mechs like the arrow, slight quirk buffs.

So what exactly is the reason to expect that they will go ridiculously overboard with the kodiak? Why not expect and argue for a simple quirk reduction like the bj and bk got.

Also even if I did expect them to go overboard, it still wouldn't be a relevant argument against the reasonable changes. We should argue for good things and against bad things. To defend one bad thinking the hope of preventing a worse thing is incredibly stupid, because it only leads to a polarized race of strawmen, exaggerations and non-communication, like what we see in this thread.

Such a hysterical discussion is more likely to provoke a hysterical response from PGI. By exaggerating one way you are not balancing the opposing exaggerations, not at all, instead what you are doing is to trigger each other into a spiral of increasing hyperbole. That is why threads like this are so harmful, this thread actually makes over the top changes much more likely even if the OP was intended as damage control. These harmful effects become even stronger if the rhetoric employed is bitter sarcasm, setting yourself up for deniability is the most toxic of all forum behaviour ("but all I said was...")

If what we actually want is a reasonable chance for the correct change, and If we do furgher agree that quirk reduction/removal plus better hitboxes is the correct change to the Kodiak, then we should rally behind promoting that good suggestion and against bad suggestions rather than waste time on this hyperbolic damage control reverse psychology nonsense.

only hysterics I'm seeing is the "ZOMG StareBears touched me!!! NERF!" histrionics going on. See above, for a very simple and reasoned argument as to why the proposed nerf likely will fail in it's objective. And not even against nerfing the KDK3, in and of itself...I simply feel if it has to be done, let's take the time to figure out a nerf that actualyl "fixes" the issue.

Edited by Procurator Derek, 10 June 2016 - 10:32 AM.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 June 2016 - 08:05 AM, said:

mmm...not all. in these 35 pages (and still going, thanks Mischief and Company!) you've got the full gamut of reasonable to insane.

That said, I am still 100% unconvinced that losing the agility will actuall hurt the DakkaBear appreciably. Yes, a few of the top top players can leverage it, like McGral and Twinkie. The VAST majority of people using it are simply staring and facehugging. How can I be sure? Because that is how the majority of people play this game. Staring slackjawed at the other team like a 13 year old with his first issue of Penthouse.

And as such, nerfing the mobility, on a build that exists for mass DPS application, will have zero effect on 99% of the DakkaBears in play. None. Zip, nada. Because that's not the element being used and QQ'd about, anyhow. Mind you, it'll impact the FLDBears, as scoot and shoot is part and parcel. And so high tier FW matches and such will see them get hit. But which one of these insane-o "1000 dmg avg" (all what...2 of them?) are running the Gauss/PPC build? And that build takes too much "skill" to see adoption by the masses, anyhow.

So what I'm asking, is how that "fixes" the actual percieved problem, anyhow? As I said, shrink the CT.... all that happens is those StareBears (sounds better than DakkaBear, IMO) get STRONGER on avg, in QP, because they will be tougher and harder to kill in the average hands than they currently are.

And so when that nerf doesn't trickle down to seen results for the unwashed masses, what next?


only hysterics I'm seeing is the "ZOMG StareBears touched me!!! NERF!" histrionics going on. See above, for a very simple and reasoned argument as to why the proposed nerf likely will fail in it's objective. And not even against nerfing the KDK3, in and of itself...I simply feel if it has to be done, let's take the time to figure out a nerf that actualyl "fixes" the issue.

I wpuld go to say that due to this being the first Clan Mech with anything close to IS quirk levels, that many players are pointing to that and claming OP. As in, only IS mechs need to be balanced by quirks, ever.

They must be forgetting about the Kit Fox, Mist Lynx, Summoner, Gargoyle... arguably all mechs that need better performance somehow. Not including the Orion IIC and Highlander IIC.

Edited by Procurator Derek, 10 June 2016 - 10:33 AM.

[Sjorpha]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 June 2016 - 08:05 AM, said:

only hysterics I'm seeing is the "ZOMG StareBears touched me!!! NERF!" histrionics going on.

That sentence in itself contains a hysterical made up quote that is nothing but an insulting strawman in relation to most of the people you're arguing against.

Earlier in the same post you use ad hominem like "full ******".

You don't see it because you're busy taking part in it.

[Bishop Steiner]

Sjorpha, on 10 June 2016 - 08:33 AM, said:

That sentence in itself contains a hysterical made up quote that is nothing but an insulting strawman in relation to most of the people you're arguing against.

Earlier in the same post you use ad hominem like "full ******".

You don't see it because you're busy taking part in it.

Hey Ma, look! Dodge Ball!!!!

Totally focused on the largely irrelevant parts to avoid dealing with the actual relevant! BRAVO!!!!

Also...might wan't to look up what ad hominem means. Since the comment was not directed at any person, but the level of intelligence, or lack thereof involved in some of the proposed nerfs, it ain't that.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 10 June 2016 - 08:37 AM.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 June 2016 - 08:35 AM, said:

Hey Ma, look! Dodge Ball!!!!

Totally focused on the largely irrelevant parts to avoid dealing with the actual relevant! BRAVO!!!!

Also...might wan't to look up what ad hominem means. Since the comment was not directed at any person, but the level of intelligence, or lack thereof involved in some of the proposed nerfs, it ain't that.

If the mech in question (KDK-3) is where PGI wants the balance, shouldn't the other clan mechs that are underperforming be helped, rather than nerfed?

I only wonder if the quirks were added due to the balancing that hopefully will come with the resize patch.

[Sjorpha]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 June 2016 - 08:35 AM, said:

Hey Ma, look! Dodge Ball!!!!

Totally focused on the largely irrelevant parts to avoid dealing with the actual relevant! BRAVO!!!!

Also...might wan't to look up what ad hominem means. Since the comment was not directed at any person, but the level of intelligence, or lack thereof involved in some of the proposed nerfs, it ain't that.

I stand corrected, not a true ad hominem, just another insult loosely aimed at some implied group of people.

Not sure what the rest of this post means, but if you want focus on relevant things you say why mix them with irrelevant things in the first place. That's just setting needlessly diluting the value of your own posts.

As for the proposed changes, quirk removal and hitboxes would make a big difference at the top level, which is where balance matters. It may trickle down or not, i dont care that much as long as we avoid tournaments with one mech dominating an entire weight class.

If the mech is too strong or too weak after that then you discuss reasonable changes from that point, just like with any other mech.

Edited by Sjorpha, 10 June 2016 - 08:54 AM.

[1453 R]

Keshav Murali, on 10 June 2016 - 07:35 AM, said:

???

All the guys here are calling for very reasonable changes.

Fix hitboxes -- MAKE CT SMALLER (more like Atlas) is the demand. Then remove structure quirks from KDK-3. I don't see what is so hard to understand here. you are exaggerating by a lot. If anyone calls for negative quirks, rest assured, no one sane is supporting that.

for last few months PGI hasn't ham-handedly nerfed any mech. If they nerf all Kodiaks, the backlash will be huge.

Give KDK-1, KDK-5 quirks, remove from 3. That's all MischiefSC and the others on his side are asking for. I don't see how this is unreasonable. They want other variants also to perform as well. All they believe is, KDK-3 is good enough that it can perform evenly with IS assault mechs and doesn't need quirks to do so. That's all.

I was responding to McGral's cavalier dismissal of this post:

Rhent, on 09 June 2016 - 09:31 PM, said:

The KDK is broken just as bad as the boomcat was in its day. Expand the CT and give the KDK negative acceleration, turning and deceleration quirks and get the inevitable fixing of that mech done before it becomes Kodiak Warrior online.

Which is a concrete, undeniable example of exactly the type of thing I've been telling people is in the process of triggering Piranha, and which Mischief and McGral are both busy saying "Dude, seriously. No one actually wants that."

Rhent wants it. JohnnyZ wants it. The way I hear it (I don't bother with Reddit myself, for reasons of personal mental health) three quarters of Reddit wants it. The wave of mostly nameless players who showed up around Kodiak release and weekend tournament want it. And frankly, I imagine Mischief, McGral, and the others wouldn't really mind much if the KDK-3 was blasted into Tier 6 scrap. Their argument seems to primarily be "Better to overnerf the DakkaBear into pointlessness if they have to than allow it to polarize the game into DakkaBears and Things DakkaBears Eat. Weak 'Mechs nobody bothers with are less harmful to the overall health of the game than drastically overpowered monster machines nothing else can compete with."

Which is why Bishop, myself, and most anyone else who can read the writing on the wall are pretty much already disregarding the KDK-3 as a serious machine, and simply hoping against hope that Jump Bears, Stink Bears, and Sprint Bears don't end up just as ruined as the KDK-3 will.

[Roadkill]

Sjorpha, on 10 June 2016 - 08:46 AM, said:

quirk removal and hitboxes would make a big difference at the top level, which is where balance matters. It may trickle down or not, i dont care that much as long as we avoid tournaments with one mech dominating an entire weight class.

Doubtful at best.

KDK-3 isn't dominating at the top level, it's simply the most used at the moment. Probably because it's new and everyone thinks it's the most powerful. No one has really had time to consider anti-KDK options yet because the tournament is already underway.

And if removal of the quirks is the nerf installed alongside fixing the hitboxes, it's likely going to make the KDK-3 better in the PUG queue. Harder to kill (fixed hit boxes), but no less lethal.

How does that solve the perceived balance issues? And if it doesn't, then why do it?

Hint: it's not a well-considered proposal, it's an OMGNERFNAO!!! emotional reaction.

[Sjorpha]

Roadkill, on 10 June 2016 - 09:10 AM, said:

Doubtful at best.

KDK-3 isn't dominating at the top level, it's simply the most used at the moment. Probably because it's new and everyone thinks it's the most powerful. No one has really had time to consider anti-KDK options yet because the tournament is already underway.

And if removal of the quirks is the nerf installed alongside fixing the hitboxes, it's likely going to make the KDK-3 better in the PUG queue. Harder to kill (fixed hit boxes), but no less lethal.

How does that solve the perceived balance issues? And if it doesn't, then why do it?

Hint: it's not a well-considered proposal, it's an OMGNERFNAO!!! emotional reaction.

Bringing the chassis to it's baseline efficiency (no quirks) is a good idea at release because it's the only way to know how strong it is in itself.

All mechs should have the best possible hitboxes, so same thing there, you can't start balancing a mech properly before the hitboxes are well done.

To me the quirk removal + hitbox fix isn't necessarily about nerfing the chassis, it's just a necessary step to be able to work with it. Otherwise we are layering fixes on top of bad design.

If it were up to me this should be a general principle, all mechs should be in play without quirks and with optimal hitboxes before any quirks are considered, including IS mechs.

Even if those two changes end up making the mechs stronger, in that the hitbox fix is a bigger buff than quirk removal is a nerf, I still think it's a good change because it will make the mech more intuitively and logical in it's design.

There shouldn't be bad hitboxes in the game. There shouldn't be unnecessary quirks in the game. That in itself is enough reason for those two changes.

I personally do think that the quirk removal will matter quite a lot, especially at the level where spreading damage matter most, and so will a hitbox improvement. And I also believe that the dominance in the tournament is not just about hype but because it is actually the strongest choice, there isn't that much wiggle room for hype at that level. But we can agree to disagree on that, there is no rush and you can let it brew a few months to see the effects.

If other changes are needed those can be done later, but layering them on a badly designed mech isn't a good idea.

There are a lot of incredibly bad suggestions, like for example the idea to increase UAC jam rate which would only make the mech more of a mess and further from baseline design. That particular idea is especially dumb because it nerfs a specific build that isn't the strongest one, so it does nothing for balance while reducing diversity of viable builds.

Any suggestion to layer targeted nerfs on top of badly designed hitboxes and unwarranted structure and agility is just incredibly dumb. Equally dumb are suggestions to nerf specific weapon systems that aren't even used on the best builds, and obviously nerfing the actual weapons used (gauss/ppc) would be dumb too since they aren't strong on a global level.

Put the mech at baseline efficiency with good hitboxes. Give it a few months to play out, then address balance issues. This should be done with all new mechs.

[wanderer]

I don't want them to change the current torso hitboxes.

Kodiaks take CT damage like it was built to get nothing else. ST'ing one doesn't kill it. As it stands, that shot trap chest gives it a weak point, which given everything it has going for it is actually nice.

Just take the 3's quirks and give them to one of the other variants and see what happens.

[Bishop Steiner]

wanderer, on 10 June 2016 - 10:27 AM, said:

I don't want them to change the current torso hitboxes.

Kodiaks take CT damage like it was built to get nothing else. ST'ing one doesn't kill it. As it stands, that shot trap chest gives it a weak point, which given everything it has going for it is actually nice.

Just take the 3's quirks and give them to one of the other variants and see what happens.

in this I have to agree with Sjorpha. There shoudl never be intentionally bad hitboxes. Hitboxes and scale should NEVER be "balance" features and indeed need to be baselines that the other attributes can be built around. One can then determine hardpoint inflation, and height/location, Quirks and such as balancers to a set baseline.

[Scout Derek]

Keep off the arguing or insults/Unconstructive responses, and you can keep on. else posts will begin to disappear or worse.

It is also one's responsibility to report a post should they feel insulted by such, and ignore the response. Because even if you get involved in it, you're just as guilty.

[1453 R]

While Sjorpha is mostly correct in that intentionally bad/wonky, difficult to understand hitboxes should never be used as a balancing lever...at this point I'm fairly sure they will be. There is not hitbox fix in the future for the Kodiak; the Ultracomps consistently claiming the 'Mech (the entire 'Mech, not just the KDK-3, mind) as disastrously overpowered have all but assured that this particular 'weakness' will remain. Even on the variants that don't deserve it. I mean, c'mon - all Piranha has to do is not exert effort to fix the hitboxes and they can claim it as a balancing decision. While also implementing +30% jam chance for UAC's, and >20% mobility onuses, because the grognards don't want balance, they want vengeance.

Even on the assumption that the proposed Ultracomp Perfect Solution - strip the quirks and fix the hitboxes - actually goes through, I'm one of those who figures the damned thing will probably not really suffer too terribly for it. It'll be significantly less fun to pilot when it handles like a humanoid Whale, of course, but as has been pointed out - the reason the seething throngs are calling for the destruction of the KDK-3 is primarily the positioning of its exceptionally heavy firepower. I keep hearing arguments that can be boiled down to "those guns in those mounts are OP. Nerf everything else, or move the guns." Arguments concerning the mobility of the chassis are almost nonexistent, save from Mischief.

Giving the 'Mech improved durability with a hitbox fix whilst removing its ability to change its facing does not stop it from having Those Guns in Those Mounts. Given that the Horde has trouble with it because they find it difficult to win facederp encounters with a giant fuzzy RAC/10...making it harder to kill in facederp encounters won't do a thing to lessen its Insanely Overpowered Ultra-Dominance of All Things Quickplay. These are the folks who somehow still have trouble with staying away from the front ends of Whales and figure the Badyear Blimp is overpowered.

Why is this the 'best' idea we have?

Edited by 1453 R, 10 June 2016 - 11:23 AM.

[Rhent]

1453 R, on 10 June 2016 - 08:48 AM, said:

I was responding to McGral's cavalier dismissal of this post:




Which is a concrete, undeniable example of exactly the type of thing I've been telling people is in the process of triggering Piranha, and which Mischief and McGral are both busy saying "Dude, seriously. No one actually wants that."

Rhent wants it. JohnnyZ wants it. The way I hear it (I don't bother with Reddit myself, for reasons of personal mental health) three quarters of Reddit wants it. The wave of mostly nameless players who showed up around Kodiak release and weekend tournament want it. And frankly, I imagine Mischief, McGral, and the others wouldn't really mind much if the KDK-3 was blasted into Tier 6 scrap. Their argument seems to primarily be "Better to overnerf the DakkaBear into pointlessness if they have to than allow it to polarize the game into DakkaBears and Things DakkaBears Eat. Weak 'Mechs nobody bothers with are less harmful to the overall health of the game than drastically overpowered monster machines nothing else can compete with."

Which is why Bishop, myself, and most anyone else who can read the writing on the wall are pretty much already disregarding the KDK-3 as a serious machine, and simply hoping against hope that Jump Bears, Stink Bears, and Sprint Bears don't end up just as ruined as the KDK-3 will.

PGI needs to be triggered on the KDK. They released a mech with the weapons pod capacity of a Direwolf + variable XL engine size + good hard points. The only drawback is that the chassis doesn't have the best hard points to do a sword and board. The Whale was released with its pod capacity and hard points because it had a sizable movement penalty that evened the Whale out in comparison to other mechs. The KDK has little to no weaknesses, its equivalent to the Boomcat before it was nerfed from a balance issue. And by looking at the massive amount of threads on the KDK being for its nerf and by being against nerfing the KDK its reminiscent of discussions on:
-4 PPC / 6 PPC stalkers
-Boomcats
-Poptarts

The KDK in its current incarnation is one hell of a balance issue.

Edited by Rhent, 10 June 2016 - 11:49 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Rhent, on 10 June 2016 - 11:48 AM, said:

PGI needs to be triggered on the KDK. They released a mech with the weapons pod capacity of a Direwolf + variable XL engine size + good hard points. The only drawback is that the chassis doesn't have the best hard points to do a sword and board. The Whale was released with its pod capacity and hard points because it had a sizable movement penalty that evened the Whale out in comparison to other mechs. The KDK has little to no weaknesses, its equivalent to the Boomcat before it was nerfed from a balance issue. And by looking at the massive amount of threads on the KDK being for its nerf and by being against nerfing the KDK its reminiscent of discussions on:
-4 PPC / 6 PPC stalkers
-Boomcats
-Poptarts

The KDK in its current incarnation is one hell of a balance issue.

No.

The KDK3 is currently arguably a balance issue.

Virtually no one besides Sader no one is crying about the other models.

Again, let us emphasis that before posts like yours get the other variants napalm nerfed, also.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 10 June 2016 - 11:54 AM.

[Rhent]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 June 2016 - 11:54 AM, said:

No.

The KDK3 is currently arguably a balance issue.

Virtually no one besides Sader no one is crying about the other models.

Again, let us emphasis that before posts like yours get the other variants napalm nerfed, also.

A KDK can run a 350XL + 4 DHS in the engine + Ferro/Endo + Full Armor
and have: 53 tons pod space + 29 crit slots.+ move at 61 KPH + use clan weapons

The chassis needs negative quirks, preferably applied to its acceleration, deceleration and turning radius to remove about 50-75 engine rating for those characteristics but leave it with the exact same speed for its rating. The KDK-3 needs a bigger nerf than the rest of the chassis. They should leave the weapons and structure component alone for the KDK and instead focus on the main issue maneuverability for a 100 tonner w/ that amount of pod space and survivability.

Edited by Rhent, 10 June 2016 - 12:19 PM.

[Baulven]

So that escalated quickly from we just want the quirks removed from the three to nerf them all into oblivion. Good to know that balance is the goal of this huge relentless never to die thread.

As a side note I don't own a KDK and I kill them easily all the time. I don't see it needing a nerf personally.

Edited by Baulven, 10 June 2016 - 12:29 PM.