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Viridian Bog: Feedback And Thoughts

Feedback Viridian Bog

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#41 Robinhood78

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 07:28 PM

What I dislike most about bog is there isn't enough room to maneuver more than one mech in several places. Death ball seems to be here to stay and mechs need a lot of room to back up, turn, and otherwise shuffle around each other. Bog more than any other has all the tree roots and carapace/legs in the way.

What I like most is the availability of high ground and that smaller and faster mechs have an easier time getting to it.

#42 kka

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 07:50 PM

Please, whatever you do, DO NOT MAKE THE MAP BIGGER.

Also, smooth up the stairs please.

Edited by kka, 26 May 2016 - 07:53 PM.


#43 smokefield

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 08:36 PM

this : http://mwomercs.com/...80#entry5158880



+ fix the stairs and the objects that block your walking path and its fine

Edited by smokefield, 26 May 2016 - 08:38 PM.


#44 Iverach

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 08:53 PM

Things like these roots are infuriating.



Aside from that, I can't really add much more than what Rebas Kredd and others have already said.

Starting locations are mismatched, invincible trees, assault impairing twigs, etc.

#45 Jman5

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 10:40 PM

What I like

One of the things I have noticed playing this map is that I see a lot of comebacks here. More than most maps. I think part of it has to do with the multi-level design and how the environment lets mechs hit and run better. With all the cover and fog you can escape from view and come at them from a different angle.

I think it's important to keep this element of the map by providing players with more ways to move through the map undetected.

What I don't like

I think you guys should do a pass on those natural staircases you use as ramps. A lot of them force you to really wiggle and jumpjet to move through and it's just kind of annoying to deal with.

#46 AnTi90d

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 01:38 AM

What I like about the cabbage map:
  • many platforms with few ramps
  • the insect shells

What i hate and despise about the cabbage map:
  • too much foliage
  • breakable foliage is invincible versus lasers (MW4 tree-killing lasers for all maps, do it now.)
  • foliage has terrible hitboxes that suck bullets up when they should pass by
  • that downstairs area; unless you make some caves down there, just get rid of it

Again, to be clear.. and since you're one of the map guys:

LASERS SHOULD KILL TREES JUST LIKE BULLETS DO AND JUST LIKE THEY DID IN EVERY OTHER MECHWARRIOR GAME.

Please and thank you.

#47 Xetelian

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 01:38 AM

Why I like it

It is a very brawl orientated map, can cross distances without being shot by LRMs and Gauss
Multiple elevations, can take the high ground

What I don't like
Poor visibility
Some spawns have advantageous ledges nearby and people camp there.
The best terrain can only be accessed through one side.

Edited by Xetelian, 27 May 2016 - 01:52 AM.


#48 PhoenixFire55

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 01:56 AM

Seriously, leave the existing maps alone. You want to "redesign" something then add it as a new map. And bring back the old version of RiverCity, ForestColony and Caustic back while you are at it.

#49 invernomuto

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 01:58 AM

View PostWuxian, on 26 May 2016 - 01:43 PM, said:

Why I like Viridian Bog:

The map as a whole offers a good amount of cover with overall low visibility with a lot of obstructions through the large trees and roots (which isn't bad). It's a nice change to the other maps in that it offers battlefield without a lot of elevation changes apart from the bog area and the plateaus.
Finally, I feel like the spawn points are pretty much spot on. The team is not entirely separated and can form up easily.

My issues with the map:

I think Viridian Bog's major downside is that the two large plateaus in the center are both accessible from only one side of the map. I'd try to flip one plateau around if it were up to me.
Less significant but more obvious would be the circle for the Domination gamemode.
Since the plateau there is only accessible from one side, the team that spawns there has an advantage in my opinion.
And then there's the small issue with the stairs. I get that it's mostly to enforce the theme of the map, but I think the stairs should be ramps which would probably cause less issues climbing up.


This!
Overall I like the map but I do not understand why the central plateau is accessible only from one side!
Also, as someone already stated, movement can be difficult, expecially on stairs, if you do not have JJs

#50 The Great Unwashed

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 02:43 AM

I like the visual style of the map, especially the large plant life in the actual bog. Visually the map is something completely different from the others.

The actual bog is unfortunately a fringe area of the map and only players who fell down or run away enter the bog frequently (there is no really a need for lights to go down early-game). The narrow channel doesn't really 'go' anywhere in contrast to caustic). Moving the bog part to the center of the map would be better of the visual style and give it purpose (however you would do it). Having a very sharp height different at the bog edge as it is now isn't all that pleasant either as the map already has 3 distinct height levels and the current bog is too narrow making it an extremely difficult spot to be in. If you have good sight lines on each level but not from one to the other then perhaps it would be more 'ok' to use cover to move, so you can take the risk to go bog. More room to maneuver or hide would help (a few caves connecting bog lines?)

However, sight lines on the ground floor level are really bad, so add here the usual complaints about bad visibility and restricted movement, in particular the various tree branches frustrating movement and poor steps that are also laid out asymmetrically favoring one team more than the other. Bog size: just fine.

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 27 May 2016 - 03:06 AM.


#51 Libas

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 04:25 AM

Alpine Peaks

A lot of open areas, that mostly makes people push a ceratin area
Most of the map is left unused

Canyon network
Most of the times people just go to the midle or just pick a side and stay there

Caustic Valley

Visibility on the map is bad
Most people just Nascar around the center

Crimson Strait
The battle is always on the platform

Forest Colony

Really bad visivblity
A lot of trees and brunches that block the shots
A lot of time spent walking

Frozen City

2 spots that is actually used to get the "push"

Grim Plexus

Huge are in the center with no cover

HPG Manifold

The platform is where the fight will happen

Pollar highlands
I think the joke is good but this is no map it s an empty field, designed for people that want to play lrms

River City
Night-day is nice but the heat vision- night vision is bad

Terra Therma
The one who gets the center usually wins


Mining Collective
again the center is usually is where the gith will happen

Tourmaline Desert
huge areas with low cover

Viridian Bog
Brunch that mechs get stack and visibiltty problems


Overall night-heat vision is almost in no use in most of the maps
One spot usally in most of the maps that where the fight will happen, i bet there are places in the map some players never went so far
A lot of open areas with no cover in most of the maps
A lot of invisible walls
Destructible objects-walls>?
The visibility in some maps is just terrible

well i must forget a lot of things but i ll try to continue the list later

Edited by Libas, 27 May 2016 - 04:27 AM.


#52 Felbombling

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 05:14 AM

I have one thing to say about maps, and I hope you plaster it all over the office...

Invisible terrain hit-boxes kill immersion!

#53 zephoidb

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 05:25 AM

Likes:
-Fighting lanes are not defined. You can use the plateaus to expand fighting lanes and flank.
-Blocking cover in open areas limits large force multiplication (you can't just ball up as easy as other maps).
-Engagement range variation. Some areas promote ~500m engagements while others are 200m.
-engagements can occur in multiple different locations. Sometimes on right side, sometimes left
-Thin alleys encourage spreading out
-flat top to plateau means you have no cover to someone of your elevation, but cover from those below. Benefits lower weapon mounts

Dislikes:
-Plateaus only have one access point, meaning one team usually has access to higher ground while the other is stuck at the bottom unless they can fight through a kill zone.
-Lower area is a death trap. Too few ways to get out and too little tactical advantage
-Large number of underfoot branches making assaults get stuck on things that don't make sense (i can step through a rotting log in a 100 ton atlas).
-Jump Jets not strong enough to get on top of most plateaus on anything besides lights. Even my Nova can't get up.


Suggestions:
-Remove lower area, add a 3rd center plateau
-lower the level of plateaus by 1/3-1/4
-add a ramp on either side
-make things like logs, plants, and vines destroyable so you can walk through them.

#54 Weeny Machine

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 06:08 AM

  • What do you like about this map?
Multi-levels. Creative Players can use mobility to their advantage be it for flanking or hopping on a higher level to scout or snipe.


A lot of cover

Some plateaus are only accessible for jump capable mechs

Using other objects to get to higher levels via jump jets
  • What do you dislike about this map?
Some of the small roots block a battlemech - which is annoying like hell


Laser-proof leaves Posted Image

Plateaus with only one access point (if you are not jump capable)

Edited by Bush Hopper, 27 May 2016 - 06:10 AM.


#55 Malleus011

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 07:04 AM

What do I like about Viridian Bog?

The general jungle atmosphere, the temperature, and the atmospherics. It's a lovely green hell of an art template.
The map offers a number of opportunities for vertical movement, which adds tactical variety and uses for hoverjets.
Love the hanging vines and LOS blocking vegetation.

What do I dislike about Viridian Bog?
Biggest complaint - everybody's complaint - my 70 ton war machine can't seem to get past tree roots or step over rocks.
The scale seems off. The map makes me feel like an infantryman; there's nothing at all to suggest I'm in a towering Battlemech. There's nothing 'human scale' on the map at all.
The giant bug has to go. It's much too large, makes the 'mechs feel small, and is a trip and snag hazard.
There's nothing about the map that feels worth fighting over. We're in an earth bowl filled with water and jungle with no obvious ways in or out. There are no settlements, roads, science stations, or other anythings. Why are we fighting in a swamp?
All the ground 'levels' feel scaled to 'mechs, not people or realistic terrain.
Combats happen in the same handful of places in the map, which makes it get OLD fast.
The trees are WAY too big and tough. My 'mech can blast off another 'mechs arm but can't shoot through timber. Giant trees also make the 'mechs feel like infantrymen.
The map is kind of small, which contributes to the sameness of combat, you can't flank most positions. Polar Highlands was a great template for a map which allows tactical variation; the sheer size of the map means any strong point is vulnerable to envelopment.

#56 ggodo

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 07:47 AM

LIKES:

Verdant greens, plans obscuring vision, elevations.

DISLIKES:

One-sided access to central platform, indestructible, immovable plants, and whatever keeps grabbing my mech's feet.

#57 MadcatX

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 09:28 AM

What do you like about this map?

- The various levels of terrain
- The multiple chokepoints and firing lines that the hills create.
- That shell right in the middle

What do you dislike about this map?

- The steps to get to the upper plateaus bringing my mech to a complete stop.

Edited by MadcatX, 27 May 2016 - 09:29 AM.


#58 Gamuray

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 09:38 AM

View PostSteven Hicks, on 26 May 2016 - 01:21 PM, said:

Hey Folks! It’s one of your friendly neighborhood level designers here. With the recent addition of new Level Designers at PGI, we’re hoping to take a critical eye to some of our previous maps and make changes that make these maps more enjoyable, tactical, and address any problems currently present..

You mean total reworks? Right?
Not necessarily. While some maps may need complete overhauls, we hope to make smaller changes to a lot of the maps. A lot of time from a lot of people can go into a map rework. With these forum posts we hope to achieve a way to iterate the already existing maps in a smaller more iterative process, similar to how we’ve been handling our Competitive Maps.

So we want you (Yes, you!) to help us designers outline what you like and don’t like about these maps. Nobody knows the levels better than the fine folks who play them every day. So we want you to post your thoughts and feedback here. We’ll be keeping a close eye on the forums as we work on the levels.

A good format for your feedback would be to outline your thoughts as such:

What do you like about this map?
Including what you like about the map helps us identify what should be kept in mind when design changes and even new levels. We don’t want to take out or ruin what you think makes a map special if we can avoid it. So let us know some of the things you prefer about the map.

What do you dislike about this map?
These are things you want us to look at and hopefully improve as we make changes. Keep in mind these things are from a Level Design standpoint. You can still express your concerns about things like art and game mechanics, but the main focus of these posts is things like spawn points, objective locations, and the overall layout of maps.

Our focus is currently set on Viridian Bog. So changes are going to start being made on that map first, and then we’ll move to another. We hope to do more posts like this if it goes well. But for now, lets hear your thoughts!


I love that you're doing this. A suggestion I might make, since I've noticed that most maps have a central feature that is tall that creates nascar.. and viridian has the two plateaus that have access on onE side only, which most fighting revolves around.. I really like the look and feel of the lower, foggy area, but it being off to the side and open makes it unattractive to go into. If that was jn the middle of the map, stretching from one spawn to the other, with the terraces and trees on either side, then that would greatly increase the variety of situations. People could end up volleying from either side if the go different way, brawling if both teams choose the same side, OR a chaotic mess of crowded fighting if they choose to push the middle straight for the enemy in the narrow fog (which I would suggest is a good opportunity to have environments affect sensors, so that you can't tell easily if mechs are jn the thick fog. Make it real thick, like pea soup with decreased sensor range while your in it.. would be awesome)

#59 Alistair Winter

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 10:13 AM

What I like about this map:
  • Different altitude levels. From the plateaus on land to the deep river. More of this, please.
  • The vegetation. It's very green and lush, it looks great.
  • The ambient sounds. More of this, please. Insects, bird sounds, moving water, rolling thunder, etc.
  • The opportunities for jump jet mechs. More of this, please. One of the few maps where jump jet mechs can truly excel and be creative.
  • There is no single dominant terrain feature, like Citadel or volcano.
What I dislike about this map:
  • It's essentially a narrow, curved strip of land. Very limited movement.
  • The river is a death trap and isn't used very much.
  • The twin plateaus are too dominant. Every match is played around that area, makes gameplay predictable.
The three main things I want to get fixed:
  • Make the map more open, more circular like Polar Highlands or square, like Mining Collective. This gives more freedom of movement.
  • Don't put two big plateaus at the center of the map, it makes this location too dominant.
  • Let us explore land on both sides of the river. This should especially be fun for Conquest.
Posted Image

#60 Cy Mitchell

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 10:33 AM

I want to echo what many of the others have said and thank you for asking for feedback and ideas from the community. There are a lot of very good ideas floating around out here that could really enhance MWO. We know that not all of them can be put into the game because some ideas are diverse and even contrary to other ideas and so compromises must be found that somewhat satisfy the community as a whole. I think we all really appreciate that someone is listening and we hope that it expands to areas other than maps.

Most of my thoughts have been covered by other.

LIkes:

I like the general theme and feel of the map. It brings some unique features to the game. I like the greenness and the swampy feeling. I also like the elevation differences and the amount of cover on the map.

Dislikes:

The map forces the action to a rather restricted area for most battles. IMO it would be better if the map was widened a bit to allow more movement.

As many have stated, access to the plateaus is biased and needs to be addressed. IMO the space between the hills should be widened with one hill closer to each base or spawn points or both of the hills should have a means of access on both sides. I also agree that the terraced steps are awkward. Personally, I would prefer that the hills become a more gentle slope with some tree cover on them and 2 or 3 climbable ways up each of them. Maybe a gradually sloping gully like feature to access the top of each hill would work nicely.

Please do not make the map any smaller. It is small as it is and game modes plus the terrain forces it to be played even smaller.





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