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Unbalanced Dom Point


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#1 Nighthawk513

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 07:03 PM

From what I have found, the domination point on Alpine peaks gives one team a serious advantage.

With the current placement of the Domination point on Alpine Peaks, the team that spawns in the k5 area has cover inside the circle on top of the mountain, and a way to get mechs that don't have loads of jump jets to the top, whereas the team in the J12 area spawn has zero cover inside the circle, unless they are on top of the mountain, in full view of most of the enemy team, and having to deal with anything that does happen to come up over the "ramp side".

If the current location is most suitable in terms of travel time, an easy way to fix the issue would be to move the dom point closer to J8, where the circle would no longer extend to the top of the mountain, denying the k5 team that huge advantage, and bring the cover on each side much closer to even.

#2 Keonyn

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 07:22 PM

I agree 10,000% if that is even possible. The domination on this map is so bad it shouldn't even be an option if domination is also an option. One side gets a ton of cover on the edge of the domination zone while the other side not only gets zero cover whatsoever, but they also are completely exposed even on the approach to get CLOSE to the cap zone.

#3 Bjoern Jorgensson

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Posted 04 June 2016 - 10:19 AM

For heavens sake - PGI fix that DOM point! Don´t you play your own game???
At the moment it´s completely imbalanced!!!

Edited by Bjoern Jorgensson, 04 June 2016 - 10:20 AM.


#4 PFC Carsten

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 05:36 AM

You mean like they fixed it before?
http://mwomercs.com/...88#entry5154288

Not gonna happen anytime soon, as long as people sheepishly buy one mechpack after another.

#5 Appogee

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 06:57 AM

View PostBjoern Jorgensson, on 04 June 2016 - 10:19 AM, said:

For heavens sake - PGI fix that DOM point! Don´t you play your own game???

They say they do. But it's at lower tiers of play.

Perhaps in Tier 4 problems like imbalanced domination zones are less glaringly obvious.

#6 Fox the Apprentice

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 04:50 AM

I'm tier 4/5 and it's still obvious to me Posted Image

That said, I hope something is done to fix this; I also feel it favors one side. I don't think it's something I'm entitled to, though, as I haven't spent much at all on this game. Would be nice, though.

Didn't PGI have a sweeping map rebalance planned in the road map?

EDIT:

View PostSteven Hicks, on 26 May 2016 - 01:21 PM, said:

Hey Folks! It’s one of your friendly neighborhood level designers here. With the recent addition of new Level Designers at PGI, we’re hoping to take a critical eye to some of our previous maps and make changes that make these maps more enjoyable, tactical, and address any problems currently present..

You mean total reworks? Right?
Not necessarily. While some maps may need complete overhauls, we hope to make smaller changes to a lot of the maps. A lot of time from a lot of people can go into a map rework. With these forum posts we hope to achieve a way to iterate the already existing maps in a smaller more iterative process, similar to how we’ve been handling our Competitive Maps.

So we want you (Yes, you!) to help us designers outline what you like and don’t like about these maps. Nobody knows the levels better than the fine folks who play them every day. So we want you to post your thoughts and feedback here. We’ll be keeping a close eye on the forums as we work on the levels.

A good format for your feedback would be to outline your thoughts as such:

What do you like about this map?
Including what you like about the map helps us identify what should be kept in mind when design changes and even new levels. We don’t want to take out or ruin what you think makes a map special if we can avoid it. So let us know some of the things you prefer about the map.

What do you dislike about this map?
These are things you want us to look at and hopefully improve as we make changes. Keep in mind these things are from a Level Design standpoint. You can still express your concerns about things like art and game mechanics, but the main focus of these posts is things like spawn points, objective locations, and the overall layout of maps.

Our focus is currently set on Viridian Bog. So changes are going to start being made on that map first, and then we’ll move to another. We hope to do more posts like this if it goes well. But for now, lets hear your thoughts!


Looks like it's coming, but this map might not be a priority yet.

Edited by Fox the Apprentice, 06 June 2016 - 05:03 AM.


#7 knightsljx

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 08:07 AM

View PostNighthawk513, on 28 May 2016 - 07:03 PM, said:

From what I have found, the domination point on Alpine peaks gives one team a serious advantage.

With the current placement of the Domination point on Alpine Peaks, the team that spawns in the k5 area has cover inside the circle on top of the mountain, and a way to get mechs that don't have loads of jump jets to the top, whereas the team in the J12 area spawn has zero cover inside the circle, unless they are on top of the mountain, in full view of most of the enemy team, and having to deal with anything that does happen to come up over the "ramp side".

If the current location is most suitable in terms of travel time, an easy way to fix the issue would be to move the dom point closer to J8, where the circle would no longer extend to the top of the mountain, denying the k5 team that huge advantage, and bring the cover on each side much closer to even.


there's no one in PGI that understands basic military tactics/strategy and terrain concepts. they make the same mistake over and over and over on maps and don't bother fixing them. Alpine is a classic example of poor map design and the Domination mode again demonstrates they don't understand choke points and cover. They just plonked the capture point randomly in the middle and called it a day.

and when they do make a facade of an attempt to fix maps, they use their own internal theory (or lack of it) instead of listening to the tons of postings on the forums. I've lost count of how many times they changed the spawn points on Alpine. It's pointless, because the map is inherently flawed.

I just hope they don't break Frozen City in the June remake

#8 Thorqemada

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 02:51 PM

Positive: Its cold (if you have a bad heat Mech)

Negative: Everything else...

Let it stay for variety and reasons - if there is no map to hate pople dont know what map to like.

#9 Danjo San

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 09:06 AM

View Postknightsljx, on 06 June 2016 - 08:07 AM, said:


there's no one in PGI that understands basic military tactics/strategy and terrain concepts. they make the same mistake over and over and over on maps and don't bother fixing them. Alpine is a classic example of poor map design and the Domination mode again demonstrates they don't understand choke points and cover. They just plonked the capture point randomly in the middle and called it a day.

and when they do make a facade of an attempt to fix maps, they use their own internal theory (or lack of it) instead of listening to the tons of postings on the forums. I've lost count of how many times they changed the spawn points on Alpine. It's pointless, because the map is inherently flawed.

I just hope they don't break Frozen City in the June remake

I think Alpine is a great example of good map design. Otherwise there wouldn't have been an outrage of players crying for it to stay when polar was set to replace alpine. The general Layout of Alpine is great, Assault Points, Skirmish Zones are great.
I do agree the Domination Point needs a shift to a different location. It needs to provide equal accessability and equal cover to balance. That may be a difficult task to achieve on Alpine without introducing new Terrain oder assets. As this map has been designed loooong before Domination was born. Maybe it is impossible to find a perfectly balanced spot for this on Alpine. Maybe Alpine needs minor tweaking in order to fix domination for that. but the other modes work out fine

#10 PFC Carsten

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Posted 13 June 2016 - 11:33 PM

PGI, you asked for feedback and were given some justified complaints about an overly easy to fix™ issue - so easy, even I could do it, given access to the tools) for almost 2 months now. And yet, nothing happens.

Why ask for feedback in the first place? Placebo?

#11 OZHomerOZ

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 07:25 AM

Using that corner at L7, 8 and 9 ish can be of help

You don't have to be in the circle to stop the clock

Pretty sure targeting those in the circle and shooting them both stop the clock.
So there's no need to get banged up.

that area around the L7, L8, and L9 area allows you to close in cover to the enemy's back.

#12 Insufficient Skill

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Posted 17 June 2016 - 04:48 PM

'z not about how you can, but how 'bout one side has an unfair advantage, y'know?

#13 Shiney

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 08:52 AM

Extremely unbalanced. Whilst you 'can' win on the other side there's one of two options, run around one side of the mountain or the other and hope the enemy aren't bunched up. It very much looks to me like nobody tests or even does a walk around before making throw at dartboard decisions. What's it matter PGI don't really don't seem to care much for their players satisfaction too much.

#14 Alienized

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 09:08 AM

crimson strait is just as badly placed. they could have put it in the city territory on the northern part of the map with people

starting left and right of the water areas. lots of possibilities to play and move, good cover, lots of infighting.

instead they just dropped it on the deck where everyone fights on each bloody mode.

#15 Fox the Apprentice

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 12:02 PM

View PostDanjo San, on 09 June 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:

I think Alpine is a great example of good map design. Otherwise there wouldn't have been an outrage of players crying for it to stay when polar was set to replace alpine. [...]


Alpine is my least favorite map. Can't speak for others, though :)

#16 Major Lag

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 08:22 AM

nvm.

Edited by Major Lag, 08 November 2016 - 02:53 PM.


#17 Seddrik

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Posted 27 June 2016 - 12:38 PM

The Dom point is still totally imbalanced. Your on the good side with all the cover as you claim the point or... the side to die on cuz there is no cover but a huge mountain blocking you from the point and only open areas in which to get to it.

Change it plz....

Edited by Seddrik, 27 June 2016 - 12:39 PM.


#18 762 NATO

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 12:08 AM

I would think of this as an easy fix, but I am just a dumb welder with a 3.98 in an Applied Physics Bachelors degree (don't ask). Move.the point either farther away from the ridge or close enough to it that both teams can use it. Done.

Edited by 762 NATO, 30 June 2016 - 12:08 AM.


#19 FearThePaladin

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 12:31 PM

This is a serious issue with play. I can say that there is a likely win of 95% on one side of the domination point. I have played way to many matches of Dom on AP. The players on it are about to just give up on the one side. The last match the clock got down to 16 seconds before myself and another mech entered and died within a minute. Its it possible to win I know the successful strategy that would make it 50 - 50 but to get a PUG match to do it (Meaning convince everyone to do it and then actually do it all the while everyone is running for cover makes it very difficult.) You cannot get enough consensus within the time necessary to get the one side to win. Soon most tier two matches will just have one side giving up. Better then getting your butt handed to you trying to be the sole hero in the dom zone..... Fix it... simple fix put the DOM point at the top of the hill J9 J10, move the spawn points a bit to not have one side to close. That would fix it, there would be cover for both teams. Have the light lance spawn the closest and you should be good. This spot is almost worse than the original.

Those of you that agree please let PGI know.

#20 OZHomerOZ

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 11:45 PM

View PostInsufficient Skill, on 17 June 2016 - 04:48 PM, said:

'z not about how you can, but how 'bout one side has an unfair advantage, y'know?


In reply
I cant, not without my team, I suggest to the team to do dat, (I pug alot)
especially the brawlers that usually complain cuz you know, Alpine sux for brawlers legend
Ive done this many times with pugs, and just want to pass what I have discovered, In case someone finds it usefull

I don't see it as a disadvantage, However if I'm wrong and the map gets changed, I have no problem with that.

Also what makes me such a special snowflake that others can't take these suggestions on board. Its not that hard tell your pug brawlers to make a firing line at that corner at that grid.

Sure it doesnt always work
Its still better than the no plan pit of despair
And it sometimes works

PGI may change the map, but in the mean time I gotta do something
And this is it, me doing something.

Posted Image

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 06 July 2016 - 02:39 AM.






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