162 replies to this topic

[Xetelian]

Some lights are stronger than other lights

No light is OP

Take two guys of the same skill level

Put one in a TBR with 2cLPL and 4erML
Put one in a JR7 with 4 srm 4

Which one do you think will win?

[Darian DelFord]

Trauglodyte, on 30 May 2016 - 05:59 PM, said:

[font=HelveticaNeue-Light,]


Honestly? I really wouldn't. I've seen some real hum dingers. I am, by no means, awesome. And I do, at times, get that whole "Is it his left or my left?" thing. The truth is, if you're not in one of the top groups, you've still got a lot to learn and accomplish, if you ever will. I take every game as a learning opportunity. My only problem is when people look at it like losing or playing stupidly doesn't matter.

Yeah its a problem for everyone, and i am constantly trying to gauge right and left legs. I dunno why but yeah, thats my Achilles heal.

You are only as good as your worst video that you post on You Tube in my case this one, yup worst game ever. We all have our good days and our bad days.

Vxheous Kerensky, on 30 May 2016 - 06:04 PM, said:

duplicates are used on heavies/assaults past drop 2, because you can still run a Oxide/Jenner IIc combo. What comp team did you play for again? Go look through the end of game screenshots of MRBC if you don't believe me, but Oxides had a heavy heavy presence in the light slot.

After our comp practices, we even took our 8 man comp team into group queue and trolled with 6 Oxide/Jenner IIcs + 2 assaults (to get into minimum tonnage) and rolled most games 12-0 - 12-3 for the lulz

The issue I have with MRBC being used as a comparison by how "OP" a mech is or is not is the rule set. In order to have something OP or UP, there has to be some sort of stability. The fact of the matter is you get a streak crow or Streak Dog and an OXIDE is toast. MRBC is geared a certain way and I have no problem with that. However people keep saying MRBC this and MRBC that shows OXIDES are OP. However get out of drop 1 and the number of OXIDES drop dramatically as teams are able to utilize more tonnage.

If OXIDES were as OP as people on these forums state then you would see a MUCH larger contingent of OXIDES in the later drops. But you don't. The reason for this is simple. Anyone can one or two shot a damn OXIDE in the later drops. While the drop slot might have a few of the OXIDES or IIC's in them you do not see teams wasting a duplicate slot of the lights. This is a fallacy that folks using MRBC as a reference seem to forget

I have an issue with you stating that you brough 6 Oxides / IIC's into a group queue. The reason for this is the most you can have is 3 light mechs. Unless group limits have changed, as usually I am the only light that are in the folks that I drop with.

To answer your other question. HHOD 007 is where I started, then when it disbanded and the members formed GK I would drop sporadically with them. During this time period I would float between several units and now my unit was accepted into MS about 2 months or so ago and drop with them. However my real life has prevented me from being able to dedicate any time to comp for the last 2 seasons. However I still keep up with it quite a bit. God Bless You Tube :>

[Vxheous]

Darian DelFord, on 30 May 2016 - 07:16 PM, said:

The issue I have with MRBC being used as a comparison by how "OP" a mech is or is not is the rule set. In order to have something OP or UP, there has to be some sort of stability. The fact of the matter is you get a streak crow or Streak Dog and an OXIDE is toast. MRBC is geared a certain way and I have no problem with that. However people keep saying MRBC this and MRBC that shows OXIDES are OP. However get out of drop 1 and the number of OXIDES drop dramatically as teams are able to utilize more tonnage.

If OXIDES were as OP as people on these forums state then you would see a MUCH larger contingent of OXIDES in the later drops. But you don't. The reason for this is simple. Anyone can one or two shot a damn OXIDE in the later drops. While the drop slot might have a few of the OXIDES or IIC's in them you do not see teams wasting a duplicate slot of the lights. This is a fallacy that folks using MRBC as a reference seem to forget

I have an issue with you stating that you brough 6 Oxides / IIC's into a group queue. The reason for this is the most you can have is 3 light mechs. Unless group limits have changed, as usually I am the only light that are in the folks that I drop with.

You can drop as many lights as you want nowadays, it's all about your groups min and max tonnage, classes don't matter. So yeah, we dropped 6 lights (Oxides/Jenner IIc) and 2 assaults. We even did a 7 + 2 assaults one night for lulz. Again, since you seem to think that oxide use drops off in MRBC into the later drops, go and look at MRBC end game screenshots. Oxides show up a lot in drops 2, 4, and 5 (3 doesn't allow lights).

I know they are OP because I use them (Oxides and Jenner IIc). In certain situations I would favor the Arctic Cheetah, but no other light right now cranks out as much damage as an Oxide or Jenner IIc, and no other light has the survival that Oxides have (even with the giant walking CT)

Xetelian, on 30 May 2016 - 07:15 PM, said:

Some lights are stronger than other lights

No light is OP

Take two guys of the same skill level

Put one in a TBR with 2cLPL and 4erML
Put one in a JR7 with 4 srm 4

Which one do you think will win?

Depends if the Oxide gets the jump on the Timber first. If they started face to face, then most likely the TBR.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 30 May 2016 - 07:33 PM.

[Zolaz]

Did you buy an Oxide? Then PGI thinks the Oxide is fine. Just be prepared to buy the next mech when that one gets nerfed. Rinse, repeat. Welcome to MWO.

[Der Hesse]

The Oxide needs the quirks. Without them it wouldn´t be played ever again.

Why?

It doesn´t have jumpjets and its whole upper body is CT. You can shoot it from the front, from the sides and even from behind if you are taller than the Jenner. He can twist all he wants.

[VorpalAnvil]

Xetelian, on 30 May 2016 - 07:15 PM, said:

Some lights are stronger than other lights

No light is OP

Take two guys of the same skill level

Put one in a TBR with 2cLPL and 4erML
Put one in a JR7 with 4 srm 4

Which one do you think will win?

Presuming the guy in the Oxide has even the slightest idea how to play it properly, the Jenner.

[PhoenixFire55]

Thought I'd mention something funny I've experienced yesterday. Shame I didn't record it, but who knew ...

We've been on Terra Therma, I've made it into the middle first in a Jester along two Oxides on my team. Several enemy team lights (3 methinks, 2 Oxides and a Commando) started harassing our assaults in the backfield so our entire team minus three of us already inside decided to chase them off. Obviously (some of you might know me well) at that point I was raging in team chat about how stupid our assaults and heavies are and how they need to get their behinds into the middle before we lose it and yadda yadda ... Anyway, one of our Oxides had a seismic and he saw multiple enemy pings prepping to move in, so I've positioned myself on the opposite side of the ring so that I wouldn't get overrun instantly when they push while Oxides stayed close to the entrance.

Now comes the funny part ... the only enemy mech brave enough to move in first and the only one that actually stepped inside the ring was a quad-ERLL Cataphract, who was very shortly made into half a Cataphract and had to withdraw. None of the 7-8 remaining enemy mechs who were literally 50m behind him tryed to support him. None of the 8 mechs (mostly heavies and assaults) dared enter the fight against 2 Allmighty Oxides and the Invincible Jester (although truth be told I give myself too much credit, I was about 400m beyond the Oxides so our foes probably didn't even know I was there in the first place).

So, whadda you know, 3 or 4 of them were timidly peeking 1 by 1 only to get alphas in the face from me and my fellow Oxides, couple of em died in the process, no doubt cursing the overpowered Oxides for eternity. By the time our team was done chasing 3 squirrels (one of which I had to kill partially coz it decided to run into the middle, partially coz I was getting bored holding the fort against the impossible odds), the enemy main force was too damaged and most importantly so very demoralized by the Oxides obvious undefeatability (is this even a word?) that when our reinforcements arrived they chose to flee rather then hold the very same chokepoint that prevented them from claiming our citadel.

I don't remember your names my fellow Oxides (it's been 2:30a.m. for me guys, comeon ...), but I remember you've lived the day to tell the tale for ages about how your overpowerdness had saved the day and brought us a mighty victory. Rejoice!

(I would have rejoiced too but it was 2:30a.m., I'd probably been lmao'ing for an hour or so if it wasn't and I didn't have to get to work today).

The moral of the story is ...
Oxide OP, plz nerf.

(Wait, what? Did I get that right?)

[Der Hesse]

My funniest Oxide match these days was on mining collective where i had a dogfight with another Oxide and an Arctic Cheetah which did cost me way too much ammo, mainly because of that hard to hit Cheetah. So after a third kill (LRM-Maddog) i did run out of ammo. By this time my team and the enemy team had buried themself in deep cover around theta doing the peeking game. I think there were 3-4 dead mechs on each side.
So i typed my team that i will cause havoc in 30 seconds and they could push then. I ran right between the enemy lines looking all dangerous to them without a single missile left. To my astonishment they must have used voip or something because they ALL did react immediately and started running around like headless chicken abandoning their cover. Some did hunt me, but most just ran around and even crashed into each other while i ran slalom between their legs. Rare enough most of my team did in fact push by that time and rolled them all without any more losses besides me. I went down to some pulse lasers, but i´m sure half of them did hit their own teammates.

I can only imagine how someone cried panic-stricken "OXIDE BEHIND US!" over voip. ^^

[PhoenixFire55]

Well if we introcude the new scale of phsycological OP'iness rating from "Cute & Harmless" (aka MystLynx) to "Ugly & Lethal" (aka Oxide, aka Lavatory-Pan-on-Legs) then I guess Oxide is as OP as they get. I mean who would be afraid of my 20 DPS at 870m range Mauler when an allmighty Oxide is in view.

Tis funny but I think the psy effect from all the whine actually does make an Oxide a little better.

[Appogee]

Meanwhile....

Huggin sits in a corner, sad and unloved, remembering its glory days.

Jenner-IIC hurriedly makes its way out of the room, head down and collar pulled up, hoping no-one will notice it.

Edited by Appogee, 31 May 2016 - 04:39 AM.

[STEF_]

Spadejack, on 29 May 2016 - 07:20 AM, said:

Hello everyone!

As the title says, we all are way to tired of Oxide OPiness!

We?
"We" who?
Are you talking about you using 1°plural, or are you the ambassador of the "gotta L2P" legion?

[Lykaon]

Spadejack, on 29 May 2016 - 07:20 AM, said:

Hello everyone!

As the title says, we all are way to tired of Oxide OPiness! That mech is so nimble, hit boxes like a champion and with its super quirks, its unstopable!
People compared it to the Jenner IIC, still, the IIC variant hanst got quirks, doesnt survive as long as the Oxide and the heat... the Oxide is so heat efficient!

All in all, Oxide is the best mech on the game! It is p2w defenatly! I see alot of people complaining about the kodiak... and that makes me so sad... before thinking on the kodiak, adress the Oxide!

The Jenner IIc does have "quirks" that an oxide doesn't have.

Jumpjets
larger engine cap
Half crit slots for endo steel
Half crit slots for ferro fibrious
Higher armor value per ton for clan ferro fibrious
2 crit slot double heatsinks
CLAN XL ENGINE!!!
half weight missiles
access to streak 4 and 6 racks
access to one ton one crit active probes (no useless on a fast and agile chassis and...also streak 4s and 6s)


So if I were to build a Jenner IIc identical to my Oxide it would have

230 armor
clan 280xl (survives side torso destruction)
ferro fibrious
endo steel
4x SRM4
4.5 tons SRM ammo

and three and a half tons unspent tonnage! it's like it has a 10% more tonnage quirk AND a survives a side torso loss quirk for the XL !

So add in 2 jumpjets
and 2.5 tons more ammo.

and there we have it a "clan" Oxide without a single quirk at all it's clearly inferior dispite the 2.5 tons extra ammo,jump jets and the clan XL surviving side torso destruction. Utter garbage!

[STEF_]

Spadejack, on 29 May 2016 - 07:37 AM, said:

I know how good it is, you know how good it is! But why all the resistance to nerf the bugger? Because its isnt clan?

Because without quirks, it's a $h1t.
None drove oxide before quirks.
I wonder which mech you were claming OP at that time... (because whiners are gonna whine. Always)

[Kuaron]

In QP Oxides are not that much of a problem, since there are enough other mechs to fight and enough teammates to cover you from lights if your mech is to slow to take care for himself. Also, there is much more armour and structure on the field and the SRM ammo is final.
But scouting (IS vs. IS) is quite unplayable because of them. It is more Oxides vs. Oxides atm. Sure, you can try to outsmart them by taking a faster light in your team, if you are on the attacking side, but you hardly can beat them in battle. With no other mech. A mech fighting better than others should have clear downsides, like slow speed, making it a kind of gable in this mode. It must not be as fast as a fast light and as strong as a strong medium at the same time.

So yes, Oxides are a problem, at least in one mode.
But when we had this topic discussed in TS, the answer was pointing with the finger on the clans who need some nerfs, too. Not necessarily all mech nerfs, it could be the discussed tonnage reduction (and so excluding Stormcrows from scouting mode), but both needs to be done. And the clans are dominating in scouting, which you can simply see on how often they get the Long Tom in FP. Fighting clans is no one-mech-only mode, from the IS side, as with oxides, but they are harder to beat on average.

[Rushin Roulette]

Alistair Winter, on 29 May 2016 - 07:58 AM, said:

Even if we assume that is the explanation...

The Oxide has 4 times the structure bonus in the legs compared with the RVN-2X. 16 points vs 4 points. And it's not like the Raven legs are hard to hit anyway. (I know why it's like this. PGI wanted to peg the RVN-2X as a laser sniper forever. But it's dumb as hell.)

BECAUSE THAT RAVEN 4X CAN USE JUMPJETS TO TAKE 0 DAMAGE FROM A FALL WHILE THE OXIDE BEING THE ONLY JENNER WITH NO JUMP JETS TAKES DAMAGE EVERY TIME.

It has absolutely nothing to do with taking damage from incoming fire, that is just an added bonus which results in the Oxide being able to tank less that one alpha shot per leg (and when a light mech is legged, then it is all over anyways, no matter how much added armour the other leg has 99% of the time. Jenners are walking centre torsos anyways, while the Ravens are legs with a cockpit. Legging a Jenner is a much slower method than just destroying one of the 3 torso sections (mostly the CT).

clear enough?

As for the Oxide being more OP than the Jenner IIC... What has the OP been smoking?

Seriously, they are overall really close in terms of performance, but the IIC is faster, has JJs, can deal at least 50% more damage per Alpha while bringing more ammo. The only thing the Oxide has for it is the slightly smaller hitbox and the quirks.

[Meathook]

Threads like this are the icing on my oxide cake. You just have to love that little bugger.

[Alistair Winter]

Rushin Roulette, on 31 May 2016 - 04:47 AM, said:

It has absolutely nothing to do with taking damage from incoming fire, that is just an added bonus which results in the Oxide being able to tank less that one alpha shot per leg (and when a light mech is legged, then it is all over anyways, no matter how much added armour the other leg has 99% of the time. Jenners are walking centre torsos anyways, while the Ravens are legs with a cockpit. Legging a Jenner is a much slower method than just destroying one of the 3 torso sections (mostly the CT).
clear enough?

You don't need Caps Lock to be clear. Nor will it make your argument more valid.

The Jenner's big CT is an argument for buffing CT structure. Not every other component on the whole mech.

As for the lack of jump jets, show me any other Inner Sphere 35 ton light mech with 16 bonus structure points in the legs. Look at the ones without jump jets, specifically. The Ravens and the Wolfhounds. They either have 4 or 8 bonus structure, which is half or a quarter of the Oxide bonus specifically. How are they supposed to deal with the fall damage?

The only other 35-ton light mech with 16 additional structure points in the legs is the Adder, because the Adder is the slowest 35 ton mech in the game.

It's not about how many full alphastrikes you can take per leg either. That's a remarkably useless metric, because only remarkably poor light mech players will consistently take a full alpha strike to their legs. That only happens when you really screwed up. 99% of all damage taken to your legs as a light mech player should be grazing shots as you're moving to evade fire. The bottom line is that the Oxide has more structure points than other 35 ton mechs. But a lot of Oxide players refuse to admit that the quirks is why they are suddenly outscoring other light mechs in what was once a widely disregarded and unpopular hero mech.

TL;DR -

At least the Oxide training wheels are letting more MWO players enjoy light mechs.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 31 May 2016 - 05:31 AM.

[MazeRunner]

Spadejack, on 29 May 2016 - 07:20 AM, said:

Hello everyone!

As the title says, we all are way to tired of Oxide OPiness! That mech is so nimble, hit boxes like a champion and with its super quirks, its unstopable!
People compared it to the Jenner IIC, still, the IIC variant hanst got quirks, doesnt survive as long as the Oxide and the heat... the Oxide is so heat efficient!

All in all, Oxide is the best mech on the game! It is p2w defenatly! I see alot of people complaining about the kodiak... and that makes me so sad... before thinking on the kodiak, adress the Oxide!

Oxide is hardly over-powered. Maybe at full speed, on a turn, with a little network latency for flavor it's a threat but a long way from unstoppable.
As for the Kodiak, the only thing that's a problem is the matches where the carebear stare is bright enough to flood your screen. But the population is slowly decreasing and so the KodiAC spam is slowly settling to tolerable levels. (8+ per team, per match was getting a little much).

Now, Gauss-wielding Raven 4x..now that's a threat *shifty-eyes*

[Der Hesse]

Stefka Kerensky, on 31 May 2016 - 04:40 AM, said:

Because without quirks, it's a $h1t.
None drove oxide before quirks.
I wonder which mech you were claming OP at that time... (because whiners are gonna whine. Always)

It was the BJ 3 with 3 LPL.

[Trauglodyte]

The way that I look at balance is this:

- If you take any one mech within a weight class and pit it against all other chassis in that weight class and it comes out on top, there is a problem.

You could argue that the Oxide currently holds that position. While that isn't a problem, the issue is really that its overall quirks make it sturdier than the rest of the weight class. That, alone, is a problem because mechs at the lighter end of the weight scale should have stronger structure quirks because they need it. That the Oxide has them all beat is a severe problem. This is the one thing that bothers me about PGI's balance vision. The Locust, for example, is 15 tons lighter than the Oxide and doesn't have JJs. But, because it can run 15kph faster than the Oxide, it gets half of the structure quirks. How is that remotely balanced when it can't bring the same damage suite that the Oxide can? Quirks should have been added to do two things:

• add flavor to only the weapons upon which the chassis was designed
  
• bring the lesser performing and weaker mechs within a weight class up to par so that it is a choice of which mech someone pilots instead of simply taking the heaviest weight and then the deadliest chassis within that weight

IF the game continues down this line, you're only ever going to see the apex predator within each of the 4 groups. If someone's group wants to run a quad AC5 Blackwidow that has zero quirks for ACs, good on them. But, in my opinion, it is embarrassing that we see mechs like the one Treb variant simply because it gets a Large Laser quirk YET the weapons upon which it was designed, aka Missiles, are completely shed to make room for yet more Large Lasers. Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled that a Treb makes it into comp play. But, the point of the Treb was to rain missiles down upon the enemy and use the Large Laser in conjunction with those missiles. That it doesn't use them is another problem in an of itself but it cannot be ignored.