287 replies to this topic

[LordKnightFandragon]

Khobai, on 31 May 2016 - 08:04 AM, said:

armor actually means something in WoT too

unlike MWO where armor is pretty much useless because even an assault dies in less than 5 seconds

Barely. The only bounces you get are odd angles, RNG or cuz you simply arent upgraded yet. Every vehicle in WOT has more frontal area taken up as weakpoint then armor. M103, that is probably the biggest example of it. The US Heavy tanks, they are all more weakpoint then anything. German tanks, same story. KV1, even that has a heap of weakpoint. About the only tank that isnt a rolling weakpoint is the ST-I, IS-7, Maybe the T110E5(I hear thats kinda OP). But everything else? pppfffttt....

MWO armor isnt armor, MWO armor is hitpoints, it would be neat if they incorporated an armor system of sorts, where for every 25% of max armor, you get a % reduction to received damage. So, if your an Atlas rolling max armor, as in 518/518, you get maybe 5% per 25%, for a 20% reduction.....but idk lol.

[Scratx]

LordKnightFandragon, on 31 May 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

I am not even past T2 in that game, I got bored to tears real quick for starters, then the RNG ****, yeah, it drove me batty. As for leading my targets, I know, my very first game I scored top of my team by a mile, though it was a loss lol....I was like the only one doing anything.

I was one shot by a torpedo, but that was cuz I wasnt paying attention, but yeah, overall, I find that game just ******** as hell.

It looks like it might be aight if we can get past the low tier ****, but its a Wargaming game and after WOT, I really loathe WG...

Sorry you don't like the game, but speaking as someone who's gone all the way to tier 10, it does get better. Tier 5-7 and to a degree 8 are the sweet spot. Tier 9-10 are usual "my god, I am bleeding credits" wargaming fare, but it's easier to make a profit at those tiers than in WoT. Torpedos are nasty weapons and it sounds like you ate japanese grade torps at low tier, which means one or two hits and your tier 2 ship is done for.

One good thing about WoWs is that even being bottom tier isn't a death sentence like in WoT... you can actually do very well if you know what you're doing.

... And one final thing, don't use coop as anything other than shooting practice and not for very long. They teach bad habits for actual PvP. :/

[Khobai]

Quote

MWO armor isnt armor,

exactly that was my whole point. armor in MWO is stupid. it doesnt even protect you really. a 100 ton mech dies in like 5 seconds.

having more armor doesnt at all make up for having a huge CT hitbox and going slow. thats why heavy mechs are better than assaults most of the time.

[MechWarrior319348]

Khobai, on 31 May 2016 - 09:07 AM, said:

exactly that was my whole point. armor in MWO is stupid. it doesnt even protect you really. a 100 ton mech dies in like 5 seconds.

having more armor doesnt at all make up for having a huge CT hitbox and going slow. thats why heavy mechs are better than assaults most of the time.

Ive noticed that sometimes lights can tank better than assaults, all they gotta do is get 3 or 4 people's attention and then run around for 5 minutes while said people try to hit them.

[Khobai]

Quote

Ive noticed that sometimes lights can tank better than assaults

yep thats mostly true

assaults are just really really bad at tanking anything because of how huge their hitboxes are.

lights have very small hitboxes so the damage is dispersed much more evenly across their hit locations. where assaults consistently get hammered in the same CT hitbox. even if you torso twist and try to block with your arms its still easy to hit you in the CT by aiming for the head or crotch.

assaults having huge hitboxes is completely counterintuitive to them having more armor. which is why we need weight class specific skill trees (i.e role warfare). assaults should get a skill that gives them damage reduction. each weight class should have skills that emphasize the strengths of that weight class.

Edited by Khobai, 31 May 2016 - 09:16 AM.

[Anjian]

StaggerCheck, on 31 May 2016 - 06:13 AM, said:

World of Tanks probably has had two million people create accounts and try the game, but they certainly do not have two million regular players. Last time I played the North American West server, there were 9800 players playing.

MechWarrior: Online will have the same situation, but with far lower numbers. It is as if they don't want to advertise right now because they know the game is unpolished. Having said that, creating a 100k tournament is sure to create some buzz at some point. Would be nice if we saw some banner ads in the future as other games have done.

Are you serious? WG has claimed over 117 million has registered since the game has started. Not all stayed of course, but they made over $500 million US dollars last year, and they currently have over 4000 employees. Their CEO is a billionaire. There are sites that track their server data, if you know where to find them, enough to say that today:

NA servers (both of them) total exceeded 33,000 players at the peak.
EU has two clusters, the total peak for the region today is around 150,000 players.
Asia has peak of over 18,000 players concurrent.
Korea has its own server where today, you have a peak of 2300.
The peak in Russia today is somewhere around 530,000.
China has its own servers with a partner and numbers are not disclosed. We can assume its pretty huge.

This is for an early weekday. Their Sunday numbers are much higher.

To say that WoT is bigger than MWO is a euphemism. Unless you define bigger as being an elephant over an ant.

These are still the numbers they get even though many claim that the game is in decline. Which in some ways it has, over the years, since the game has over matured, power creeped, and over content, bleeding players to War Thunder, their own World of Warships and Armored Warfare.

These numbers are only in the PC side --- WoT however has found new fresh audiences with their console PS and Xbox versions, and their hit mobile Blitz version for Android and iOS.

Edited by Anjian, 31 May 2016 - 09:23 AM.

[Anjian]

LordKnightFandragon, on 31 May 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

Yeah, in a Coop PVE setting. 4 players per team, or you can go with the 12 man raids, complete with AI tanks, mechs, planes, dropships, artillery vehicles...the whole gambit.



I am not even past T2 in that game, I got bored to tears real quick for starters, then the RNG ****, yeah, it drove me batty. As for leading my targets, I know, my very first game I scored top of my team by a mile, though it was a loss lol....I was like the only one doing anything.

I was one shot by a torpedo, but that was cuz I wasnt paying attention, but yeah, overall, I find that game just ******** as hell.

It looks like it might be aight if we can get past the low tier ****, but its a Wargaming game and after WOT, I really loathe WG...

First game, everyone is a noob, everyone is in a tiny gunboat in a tiny space an close range. Yeah...

One shot by a torpedo? Sounds to me like you are a victim of Japan.

Some remedies.

Go America


Go Russia

[MechWarrior319348]

hmmm some of that stuff actually looks fun heh.

[Alan Davion]

LordKnightFandragon, on 31 May 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

Yeah, in a Coop PVE setting. 4 players per team, or you can go with the 12 man raids, complete with AI tanks, mechs, planes, dropships, artillery vehicles...the whole gambit.



I am not even past T2 in that game, I got bored to tears real quick for starters, then the RNG ****, yeah, it drove me batty. As for leading my targets, I know, my very first game I scored top of my team by a mile, though it was a loss lol....I was like the only one doing anything.

I was one shot by a torpedo, but that was cuz I wasnt paying attention, but yeah, overall, I find that game just ******** as hell.

It looks like it might be aight if we can get past the low tier ****, but its a Wargaming game and after WOT, I really loathe WG...

Just to satisfy my personal curiosity, were you playing against other players or the AI?

Cause Tier 2 you really shouldn't be having a whole lot of trouble in, since you only have access to a cruiser and maybe a destroyer at that level.

Tier 3 you can finally get into the battleships, which due to their slower overall movement speed actually give you a lot more time to look around and get a feel for how the game goes.

Cruisers are the middle road, faster than BBs, not as fast as DDs. More armor than DDs, less armor than BBs. Their guns can vary pretty wildly in terms of the number, but usually have a pretty decent firing rate. Especially the low tier Russian and German cruisers, they spit lead like they just forge it right there on the ship.

You have to start out against the AI before ever going against players. Every new ship I get I fight the AI first to save up XP, research upgrades, save up credits, equip all the upgrades and then take it against the AI a couple more times to get a feel for it before I even think about going against other players.

Or, in the case of the Premium ships, you can make a killing, so to speak, facing either the AI or the Players, because they don't have upgrades you have to research and purchase. They are what they are, but they act as though you have premium time going all the time. And if you actually have premium time going, you get even more money and exp.

[Alan Davion]

Anjian, on 31 May 2016 - 09:40 AM, said:

First game, everyone is a noob, everyone is in a tiny gunboat in a tiny space an close range. Yeah...

One shot by a torpedo? Sounds to me like you are a victim of Japan.

Some remedies.

Go America


Go Russia

Well played sir.

[2fast2stompy]

Delta 62, on 30 May 2016 - 07:33 PM, said:

Tanks and mechs are pretty much the same thing if you take out the treads/legs aspect of it.....

In this context, not even close.
People flock to WoT because they like the "realism" (note the quotes) aspect of it. People tend to play video games and then use the weaponry represented in the game as conversational pieces, usually omitting the source of their knowledge, because they think it makes them sound cool. When I was a kid, everyone played CS and I had to force people to play quake, and I can't count the number of times kids would get all serious discussing desert eagles and aks and whatnot. Now we have CS:GO and Quake is all but dead, and Doom is... idk what Doom is, not in in the loop.
Realism, however tenuous, appeals to people. It's popular. It provides context for real world information and aspirations, however nebulous.

Also, tanks have far more fanboys than BT ever did.

[operatorZ]

Ok I had about 10,000 games in WOT and 2,500 in World of Warplanes WOW (Wargaming's WOT for WWII planes).

WOT was/is widely successful based on many of the things people have said and the main fact it caters to a Russian player base who are crazy about tanks.

BUT

WOW is not popular and suffers as the redheaded step child of WOT. Why?

Everything that's in WOT is in WOW, everything, same game design, lab, progression, tiers, everything. Three things in my opinion keep WOW from ever reaching WOT popularity:

1) The higher tier planes far outclassed the mid tier, mainly because they brought in jet planes. Basically power creep.

2) Because of this population suffered.

3) As popular as the WWII genre is, piloting WWII planes is a niche in this genre and many players who tried it couldn't grasp the maneuvering in 3 dimensions, regardless of the easy mouse keyboard setup. They just couldn't get it and WOW did not do a good job explaining how to set it up optimally. By the time they added tutorials, the damage had been done.


So in closing, Yes WOT is popular because...WWII tanks, maneuvering on ground is easy for anybody to grasp and learn and has the broadest potential for a player base, bringing in gaming nerds and historical war buffs alike.

WOW, not popular because, niche game, power creep and early mistakes limited population. Plus difficult control setup limited population even more.

Not sure how this all relates to MWO, but I certainly have seen the negative effects from power creep and not investing enough in player training.

Not much MWO can do about being niche, it just is. But they could certainly up their game by making a better effort at mandatory training tutorials before players can even get into a PvP environment.

No matter what MWO will never be as popular as WOT, the fanbase for WWII tanks is just too large to compete. I'm ok with that, I haven't gone back to WOT and I won't. For one thing the player base here is way better (less trolling, griefing etc.) and these forums (despite the bitter vet, tryhards and OP whiners) make the WOT forums look like people trying to kill each other through their screens.

Edited by operatorZ, 31 May 2016 - 10:34 AM.

[Novakaine]

operatorZ, on 31 May 2016 - 10:33 AM, said:

Ok I had about 10,000 games in WOT and 2,500 in World of Warplanes WOW (Wargaming's WOT for WWII planes).

WOT was/is widely successful based on many of the things people have said and the main fact it caters to a Russian player base who are crazy about tanks.

BUT

WOW is not popular and suffers as the redheaded step child of WOT. Why?

Everything that's in WOT is in WOW, everything, same game design, lab, progression, tiers, everything. Three things in my opinion keep WOW from ever reaching WOT popularity:

1) The higher tier planes far outclassed the mid tier, mainly because they brought in jet planes. Basically power creep.

2) Because of this population suffered.

3) As popular as the WWII genre is, piloting WWII planes is a niche in this genre and many players who tried it couldn't grasp the maneuvering in 3 dimensions, regardless of the easy mouse keyboard setup. They just couldn't get it and WOW did not do a good job explaining how to set it up optimally. By the time they added tutorials, the damage had been done.


So in closing, Yes WOT is popular because...WWII tanks, maneuvering on ground is easy for anybody to grasp and learn and has the broadest potential for a player base, bringing in gaming nerds and historical war buffs alike.

WOW, not popular because, niche game, power creep and early mistakes limited population. Plus difficult control setup limited population even more.

Not sure how this all relates to MWO, but I certainly have seen the negative effects from power creep and not investing enough in player training.

Not much MWO can do about being niche, it just is. But they could certainly up their game by making a better effort at mandatory training tutorials before players can even get into a PvP environment.

No matter what MWO will never be as popular as WOT, the fanbase for WWII tanks is just too large to compete. I'm ok with that, I haven't gone back to WOT and I won't. For one thing the player base here is way better (less trolling, griefing etc.) and these forums (despite the bitter vet, tryhards and OP whiners) make the WOT forums look like people trying to kill each other through their screens.

I disagree man if only PGI would add tanks and aerofighters the games population would virtually double overnight.
People like tanks.
People like planes.
Why not here?

[operatorZ]

Novakaine, on 31 May 2016 - 10:54 AM, said:

I disagree man if only PGI would add tanks and aerofighters the games population would virtually double overnight.
People like tanks.
People like planes.
Why not here?

Sure, if they added all that as fully developed and playable without disturbing balance, I'm all for it. Hell the population may triple, but MWO will never be as popular as WOT. And it has almost nothing to do with which game is better.

BTW Wargaming's goal is to eventually integrate all 3 of their games; World of Tanks, Planes, Ships into one massive war simulator game encompassing land, water and air. Pretty cool goal, which they are light years ahead of MWO in.

[wanderer]

Quote

Why don't we see the same results with this game?

WoT's programmers can actually understand their own game, allowing for much broader development and a more positive playerbase. MWO has had advertising blitzes. The negative responses have probably meant those actually caused more harm than good, as the game has ugly flaws that only get more attention if the game attracts reviewers.

[dervishx5]

LordKnightFandragon, on 31 May 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

Yeah, in a Coop PVE setting. 4 players per team, or you can go with the 12 man raids, complete with AI tanks, mechs, planes, dropships, artillery vehicles...the whole gambit.



I am not even past T2 in that game, I got bored to tears real quick for starters, then the RNG ****, yeah, it drove me batty. As for leading my targets, I know, my very first game I scored top of my team by a mile, though it was a loss lol....I was like the only one doing anything.

I was one shot by a torpedo, but that was cuz I wasnt paying attention, but yeah, overall, I find that game just ******** as hell.

It looks like it might be aight if we can get past the low tier ****, but its a Wargaming game and after WOT, I really loathe WG...

If you don't like the game, that's fine. It's not for everyone. But you do realize the RNG is the way it is because it's trying to resemble real life, right? Ships would fire from like 24 kilometers away and miss and miss until one hit usually did them in. Granted there are exceptions.

Also to get to Tier 3 takes about an hour.

Maybe you have to be into history to really enjoy WoW. But it's a far superior game to MWO and its only been out for about a year. At least I enjoy it a lot more, and the numbers seem to back up what I'm saying. I've yet to feel that constant nagging disappointment with WoW that MWO has given me since 2014.

[Kenneth Kell]

i have played both World of Tanks and MechWarrior Online on and off since they where both in Beta and i would have to say i prefer MechWarrior more not that it doesn't have it's problems.

1. I believe over all that Mechwarrior Online has the better community i find the NA World of Tanks Community very Toxic Win or Lose most players in MechWarrior Online are way more polite most of the time

Lose a match in World of Tanks and prepare to hear how you and only you alone brought the whole team down and caused the loss.( Usually from the players that did the worst on the team/ didn't contribute at all) Several Swear words and comments about your Mother or some other High School level insult.
2. World of Tanks seems a little to Arcade like to me and most teams think that just zerg rushing to the other side of the map to cap the other teams base is ALWAYS the best course then refer to Number 1 about the insults after they die in the first 3 seconds of the match

3. God Awful Match making and very few match types i think there are 2 or 3 match types now? they tried adding Nation vs. Nation matchmaking but it was so bad they removed it from the game soon after it was put in!!

Now where Mechwarrior needs improvement imo

1. The boring old Mech Eliteing system.. it gets Dull and Boring and tedious not saying that there shouldn't be a system but there has to be a better system then the one in the game now and i think it also may turn a lot of new Players off that come from World of Tanks or any other MechWarrior game .. World of Tanks has a much better Progression system you want to move on to a differant tank.. you don't have to progress through 3 heavy tanks of the same type just to unlock or ''elite'' it you do it once.

2. World of Tanks just has better/easier Customization period as far as Camo skins etc. you want a camo skin for only a week and don't want to pay real money for it?? fine you can pay ingame money and unlock it for as little as 2 days i think up to 30days the only time you use the real money currency (gold) is when you want to add it permanently

Decals.. funny how something so simple can add to the game but you can add wartime sayings and nation flags and other stuff to your tanks in World of Tanks

so i don't see myself leaveing MWO and hope things get better but i have had little or no desire to return to WOT in over a year. MWO is just more fun for me and i think the community and fun game play are a big part of that
this is all i can think of right now feel free to add to the list

[LordKnightFandragon]

Anjian, on 31 May 2016 - 09:40 AM, said:

First game, everyone is a noob, everyone is in a tiny gunboat in a tiny space an close range. Yeah...

One shot by a torpedo? Sounds to me like you are a victim of Japan.

Some remedies.

Go America


Go Russia

Well, I wanted to get American Battleships, but yeah, just not into WG games anymore, so I didnt have the desire to L2P that game or stick with it long. I was hoping PVE was more then a 200 credit joke of a mode....but alas...it was.

dervishx5, on 31 May 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

If you don't like the game, that's fine. It's not for everyone. But you do realize the RNG is the way it is because it's trying to resemble real life, right? Ships would fire from like 24 kilometers away and miss and miss until one hit usually did them in. Granted there are exceptions.

Also to get to Tier 3 takes about an hour.

Maybe you have to be into history to really enjoy WoW. But it's a far superior game to MWO and its only been out for about a year. At least I enjoy it a lot more, and the numbers seem to back up what I'm saying. I've yet to feel that constant nagging disappointment with WoW that MWO has given me since 2014.

From just listening and watching Bismarck shows, it sounds like the Bismarck just got a really lucky hit on the Hood, meanwhile, the Bismarck got hammered for several hours before being done in. I think the same was the case with the Yamato, ofc, that I think died in a tsunami in Japan. It even sounds like the little ships like the Johnston are rather durable, and not done in with 1 hit.

[dervishx5]

LordKnightFandragon, on 31 May 2016 - 01:47 PM, said:

From just listening and watching Bismarck shows, it sounds like the Bismarck just got a really lucky hit on the Hood, meanwhile, the Bismarck got hammered for several hours before being done in. I think the same was the case with the Yamato, ofc, that I think died in a tsunami in Japan. It even sounds like the little ships like the Johnston are rather durable, and not done in with 1 hit.

The Hood was a battlecruiser built on the All or Nothing concept of protecting the most vital part of the ship. Yeah the Bismarck got a lucky plunging hit on her, but the Hood was a Battlecruiser designed to hunt down smaller ships, not armored behemoths like the Bismarck. The Hood could dish out the damage but couldn't take it. It's likely the Battle of Denmark Strait would have gone poorly for the British regardless of the critical hit to the Hood's magazine. There were many factors in the battle going against the British other than luck.

Go and read about the naval battles of WW1 and 2 sometime (a personal hobby of mine). A lot of ships died in just a few hits. And others took a lot more shells before they sunk. Warships all had their weak points. Hence the randomness of WoW. Wargaming takes a lot into account about the design of each ship to make them as historically accurate as possible. That's why some ships like the Pensacola have a large citadel but make up for it with huge guns for a tier VII cruiser (Washington naval treaty ftw). Others like the much-despised Cleveland are really well laid out but have tiny guns that can't really hurt anything bigger than them.

And the Yamato was sunk by massive amounts of American aircraft in a stupid, desperate attempt to reinforce Okinawa. But by that point the IJN had long since ceased being a credible threat to the American and British Pacific navies. In WoW Japan gets to live out a different scenario.

Edited by dervishx5, 31 May 2016 - 02:03 PM.

[Lightfoot]

Not everyone can be a Mech pilot. They are the elite of the elite.



Seriously. You have to have an imagination and some intelligence to play MechWarrior. Some just don't make the cut.