287 replies to this topic

[WarHippy]

Alan Davion, on 02 June 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

Plus if you look at my post comparing it to some of the other ships, it's really not OP at all. It might be a good ship, but it's not a God-tier ship by any stretch of the imagination.

Well I don't know if it is or isn't as I have not had any interactions with it. I was just going off of what he had said about it and the supposed opinion of the devs on the matter.

[Alan Davion]

WarHippy, on 02 June 2016 - 11:34 AM, said:

Well I don't know if it is or isn't as I have not had any interactions with it. I was just going off of what he had said about it and the supposed opinion of the devs on the matter.

Nor have I, and I've been primarily playing tiers 4-6 right now. I've not come across it once yet.

Granted I've been playing mostly against the AI but even still you'd think at least someone would bring it in there, unless everyone that has it has moved onto other ships which is entirely possible.

[Mavairo]

Alan Davion, on 02 June 2016 - 08:34 AM, said:

Do WG upload their podcasts to their YouTube channel(s)? Cause I'd like to find where they mention it'll never be sold again.

I ask because after reading several topics on the Nikolai on their forums, especially this one right here... http://forum.worldof...ator-nikolai-i/ I don't see how she's so OP so as to deserve never being sold again.

Being only a tier 4, she's really only fairly compared to the US Wyoming, same number of guns, just 2 less turrets to get incapacitated/destroyed. Speaking of the Wyoming, the Nikolai's AP rounds only do a maximum of 300 damage more compared to the US ship.

But, on the flip side, she's only a smidgen faster than the Wyoming, 21 kts vs 20.5 for the Wyo, she reloads 5 seconds slower than the Wyo, although her turrets do turn almost a full 4 seconds faster than the Wyo's, but that's like the trade off with the Cleveland's upgraded turrets. However, the Wyo's Type B hull speeds up the turret turn speed by almost 9 seconds, making her turrets turn almost 5 seconds faster than Nikolai's.

Now I know that review page says it's a Con that the Nikolai has only 2 upgrade slots, but all other tier 4 ships only have 2 upgrade slots, so I don't count that as being a Con.

I won't compare the Nikolai against the Japanese Myogi though, despite the Myogi being 7 kts faster, she only has 6 guns and while they have great range, especially with the spotter plane, their dispersion rate is HORRID. The Ishizuchi though, I can compare it to.

While the Ishi might have 2 guns less, she reloads faster, turrets turn faster, almost 20 seconds faster at that, she's got 1% less chance of causing a fire, although she does do 600 damage less than the Nikolai, and the Nikolai has a whopping 1km range more on her guns.

Unfortunately the review does not say how much HP the Nikolai has, so I'm going to assume she has roughly equal HP to the Japanese ships, somehere in the 44-46k range, the Wyo only has 43.8 with the type B hull.

So, this might only be my point of view, but I don't see how the Nikolai is so heavily unbalanced against her tier 4 sisters... With the exception of the Myogi of course, and according to the review Nikolai often ends up matched up against Tier 6 ships which are just flat out better.

The Kongo. 54100 HP, 30 second reload, 54.5 second turret turn, 10200 max AP damage, 30 kts speed, 21.2 km range on the guns, and no change in her dispersal pattern with any of the hull upgrades, 3 upgrade slots.

The Fuso, 57100 HP, 28 second reload, 56.3 second turret turn, 10200 max AP damage, 24.5 kts, 21.8 km gun range, with a +48 dispersal pattern fully upgraded, 4 upgrade slots.

The New York, 49100 HP, 34.3 second reload, 60 second turret turn, 10300 max AP damage, 21 kts, 15.6 km gun range, no change to her dispersal rating, 3 upgrade slots.

The New Mexico, 53200 HP, 34.2 second reload, 53.7 second turret turn, 10500 max AP damage, 21 kts, 14.9 km range, with a +13 dispersal pattern.

Compared against those ships, the Nikolai is not OP in the least bit and should get the chance to be sold again, unless there's something I'm missing that the Nikolai has going for her that I'm not able to pick out from that review and compare it against other ships.

The problem is it's shell groupings on the sigma axis are MUCH better than the Wyoming, and the Abominably, Laughably, Hilariously incompetent Myogi. It also has better groupings than the NY. (how it compares to the Texas which is allegedly the same ship ((I call BS on that, the groupings have been MUCH better in my Texas matches vs any in my NY, and my avg dmg per game in the NY is well over 10k over server avg)) The actual penetration is much better than Wyo's as well, and is able to overmatch the other T4 and T3 BB armor through their front armor plates, so that Angling has minimal impact on how much damage the ship can do.

It's turret placement, also allows it to be angled extremely well to return fire, while throwing the majority of it's own rounds down range in exchange without exposing itself to being citadeled.

The Isasucky is also a laughably bad T4, at least the last time I played it. I'm actually kind of embarrassed to own it. I was expecting a gimped Kongo..not a nerfed Myogi.

The Nikolai also hilariously out matches the south carolina, (the Kawachi too of course but the Kawachi is so god awful it should never be used in any balance discussion ever).

Pretty much meaning she's a better BB than the Wyo, Myogi, SC, arguably better than the NY, and behind the Kongo.. (The Kongo is easily hands down the best early BB in the game, aside from MAYBE the Texas, and that's only if Sky Cancer is present)

Sure a New Mexico, Fuso and Warspite utterly trash it...but they should.

The reason you don't see many Nikolai, is that they were on sale for a VERY short time before Wargaming pulled them from the store. I think it made it all of one week, before someone went "HOLY ****" after looking at it's avg dmg per game across the servers, realized that it was over 10k per avg game ahead of Wyoming (which in turn was at the time 7k ahead of Myogi), and the ship was pulled.

It's been gone a LONG time, and most of us that were around to take em out, usually only go down to Tier 5 and 6s (due to the AA capability, of Tier 6 and up ships..Texas Aside) to do farming with.

To give you an idea how long it's been gone.. The Tirpitz and Warspite both have been on sale 3 times, and 2 times respectively (before the new Permanently On Sale model), in the time Nikolai has been gone from the store.

Wargaming might hand them out as prizes in special events and tournaments, like they do the Kitakami... but I doubt we'll ever see more being sold.

Edited by Mavairo, 02 June 2016 - 12:44 PM.

[Alan Davion]

Mavairo, on 02 June 2016 - 12:37 PM, said:

The problem is it's shell groupings on the sigma axis are MUCH better than the Wyoming, and the Abominably, Laughably, Hilariously incompetent Myogi. It also has better groupings than the NY. (how it compares to the Texas which is allegedly the same ship ((I call BS on that, the groupings have been MUCH better in my Texas matches vs any in my NY, and my avg dmg per game in the NY is well over 10k over server avg)) The actual penetration is much better than Wyo's as well, and is able to overmatch the other T4 and T3 BB armor through their front armor plates, so that Angling has minimal impact on how much damage the ship can do.

It's turret placement, also allows it to be angled extremely well to return fire, while throwing the majority of it's own rounds down range in exchange without exposing itself to being citadeled.

The Isasucky is also a laughably bad T4, at least the last time I played it. I'm actually kind of embarrassed to own it. I was expecting a gimped Kongo..not a nerfed Myogi.

The Nikolai also hilariously out matches the south carolina, (the Kawachi too of course but the Kawachi is so god awful it should never be used in any balance discussion ever).

Pretty much meaning she's a better BB than the Wyo, Myogi, SC, arguably better than the NY, and behind the Kongo.. (The Kongo is easily hands down the best early BB in the game, aside from MAYBE the Texas, and that's only if Sky Cancer is present)

Sure a New Mexico, Fuso and Warspite utterly trash it...but they should.

The reason you don't see many Nikolai, is that they were on sale for a VERY short time before Wargaming pulled them from the store. I think it made it all of one week, before someone went "HOLY ****" after looking at it's avg dmg per game across the servers, realized that it was over 10k per avg game ahead of Wyoming (which in turn was at the time 7k ahead of Myogi), and the ship was pulled.

It's been gone a LONG time, and most of us that were around to take em out, usually only go down to Tier 5 and 6s (due to the AA capability, of Tier 6 and up ships..Texas Aside) to do farming with.

There are very few ships worse than the South Carolina. The Kawachi being the #1 contender for worst battleship ever in my eyes. Even then the SC is only marginally better than the Myogi even though it's a tier lower.

That said I'm doing fairly well with the Myogi, that spotter plane really helps extend the range which was the biggest problem I had with the Kawachi, you had to get into flipping knife-fighting range for that thing to have more than 50% shot of hitting your target with more than 2 shells.

The Ishizuchi I find is actually better than the Myogi. Sure it doesn't have the spotter plane, but it's got 4 more guns so it's able to put out better damage. The accuracy is only marginally better than the Myogi though.

I was just able to get out of my NY BB and into the NM yesterday thanks to that ship sale they had going, half price on the NM FTW.

That said the NY was a better Wyo, sure it gave up two guns, but it moved better than the Wyo I felt. The SC moved like a flipping tub in cement for Gods sake.

As far as groupings go I've never had a whole lot of trouble with the NY's groupings, I can't remember what the Wyo's groupings were like though, and I don't have the Texas so I can't comment on that either.

So clearly there was some facts about the Nikolai's performance that were not included, or at least not very well described in that review page. So... That being said, why didn't WG get screamed at for the ship being so clearly P2W when people found out just how powerful it was?

And why haven't they adjusted it accordingly? Did so many people buy that it would really cause a such huge uproar in the player base? I find that hard to believe.

This kind of reminds me of that time when the Timber Wolf was nerfed here in MWO and people went flipping ballistic, but then again MWO has an infintismally smaller player base than WoWs does, so naturally an uproar in MWO's player base would seem much larger compared to a player base as large as WG/WoT/WoWs would have.

Also, while we're on the subject, what was wrong with the Sims and Kitakami destroyers exactly? Did they underperform as badly as the Nikolai apparently overperformed?

[Mavairo]

Alan Davion, on 02 June 2016 - 12:57 PM, said:

There are very few ships worse than the South Carolina. The Kawachi being the #1 contender for worst battleship ever in my eyes. Even then the SC is only marginally better than the Myogi even though it's a tier lower.

That said I'm doing fairly well with the Myogi, that spotter plane really helps extend the range which was the biggest problem I had with the Kawachi, you had to get into flipping knife-fighting range for that thing to have more than 50% shot of hitting your target with more than 2 shells.

The Ishizuchi I find is actually better than the Myogi. Sure it doesn't have the spotter plane, but it's got 4 more guns so it's able to put out better damage. The accuracy is only marginally better than the Myogi though.

I was just able to get out of my NY BB and into the NM yesterday thanks to that ship sale they had going, half price on the NM FTW.

That said the NY was a better Wyo, sure it gave up two guns, but it moved better than the Wyo I felt. The SC moved like a flipping tub in cement for Gods sake.

As far as groupings go I've never had a whole lot of trouble with the NY's groupings, I can't remember what the Wyo's groupings were like though, and I don't have the Texas so I can't comment on that either.

So clearly there was some facts about the Nikolai's performance that were not included, or at least not very well described in that review page. So... That being said, why didn't WG get screamed at for the ship being so clearly P2W when people found out just how powerful it was?

And why haven't they adjusted it accordingly? Did so many people buy that it would really cause a such huge uproar in the player base? I find that hard to believe.

This kind of reminds me of that time when the Timber Wolf was nerfed here in MWO and people went flipping ballistic, but then again MWO has an infintismally smaller player base than WoWs does, so naturally an uproar in MWO's player base would seem much larger compared to a player base as large as WG/WoT/WoWs would have.

Also, while we're on the subject, what was wrong with the Sims and Kitakami destroyers exactly? Did they underperform as badly as the Nikolai apparently overperformed?

The New Mexico fully upgraded, is probably one of my favorite ships in the entire game. She's agile (not fast...but agile), tremendously well armored, has great penetration and shell groupings. I'd go so far as to say she might just be abit OP.
(Even though my stats say I do better in the Fuso on pure dmg... KDR, and virtually every other stat my NM stats are better)

The South Carolina, isn't the worst ship by any stretch. To me that top honor goes to the Kawachi. It's everything everyone hates about the south carolina... with a blind fold added to the gunnery crews, even worse armor, and zero realistic way to angle your armor against incoming fire and still be able to fight effectively. Second place, if you had to make me pick is easily the Chester. The Chester is so bad I've taken to referring to it as Chester the Molester. Because every time I have ever played it, any of my friends have played it, you feel utterly violated afterward with.

I use my South Carolina, when I help out people new to the game. It's decent when it angles it's armor, against ships of her Tier or lower.

The Myogi, was my next worse, to the point I free xped past it to get the mighty Kongo. The Izuchi... they've buffed it twice since I last played it, so maybe it's not suicide urge inducing terrible anymore.

NY is an upgrade over the Wyo. But it's big problem is it's squaring off against Kongos, and frequently against New Mexicos, and Fusos... as well as the odd Colorado and Nagato... two ships that honestly it has no prayer in hell of overcoming, against equally skilled captains.

The Sims problem is, sometime between CBT (when it was for sale) and OBT, they decided to nerf her shell travel times. And by nerf I mean, the shells in the air might as well be puffy clouds on a windless day. Their arc is even more hilarious than that of the Mahan, and Faragut. The dmg the rounds do is also laughably bad.

Couple it with a hideously poor detection range, that makes it comparable in detection range to some cruiser builds... stupidly short range torpedoes (Stock it had a 4.5 km torp range... at Tier Seven in a ship that you'd be seen nearly 8km away in.) with an option that was recently added to get 9km Torps...but their so very slow, and their dmg output becomes a complete joke.

The Kitakami... The Kitakami is the ultimate in lulz ships. How do you feel about a single ship launching more than 30 torpedoes in a single volley? The Kitakami can launch 40. The problem was...she was released in an Era of WOWS where none of us honestly knew what we were doing lol. The Kitakami has the literal honor of having killed more FRIENDLIES than hostile ships. The ship itself wasn't all that great..but the 40 torpedoes... when you got 3 of them out on the field at once, made a wall of torpedoes that very few ships could do anything about if they got into range.

The problem of course with 120 torpedoes in the water..(not counting torps from other ships that might be on the field) was, that NO ONE could really evade the torps if they were anywhere near being infront of them.

[Alan Davion]

Mavairo, on 02 June 2016 - 01:11 PM, said:

The New Mexico fully upgraded, is probably one of my favorite ships in the entire game. She's agile (not fast...but agile), tremendously well armored, has great penetration and shell groupings. I'd go so far as to say she might just be abit OP.
(Even though my stats say I do better in the Fuso on pure dmg... KDR, and virtually every other stat my NM stats are better)

The South Carolina, isn't the worst ship by any stretch. To me that top honor goes to the Kawachi. It's everything everyone hates about the south carolina... with a blind fold added to the gunnery crews, even worse armor, and zero realistic way to angle your armor against incoming fire and still be able to fight effectively. Second place, if you had to make me pick is easily the Chester. The Chester is so bad I've taken to referring to it as Chester the Molester. Because every time I have ever played it, any of my friends have played it, you feel utterly violated afterward with.

I use my South Carolina, when I help out people new to the game. It's decent when it angles it's armor, against ships of her Tier or lower.

The Myogi, was my next worse, to the point I free xped past it to get the mighty Kongo. The Izuchi... they've buffed it twice since I last played it, so maybe it's not suicide urge inducing terrible anymore.

NY is an upgrade over the Wyo. But it's big problem is it's squaring off against Kongos, and frequently against New Mexicos, and Fusos... as well as the odd Colorado and Nagato... two ships that honestly it has no prayer in hell of overcoming, against equally skilled captains.

The Sims problem is, sometime between CBT (when it was for sale) and OBT, they decided to nerf her shell travel times. And by nerf I mean, the shells in the air might as well be puffy clouds on a windless day. Their arc is even more hilarious than that of the Mahan, and Faragut. The dmg the rounds do is also laughably bad.

Couple it with a hideously poor detection range, that makes it comparable in detection range to some cruiser builds... stupidly short range torpedoes (Stock it had a 4.5 km torp range... at Tier Seven in a ship that you'd be seen nearly 8km away in.) with an option that was recently added to get 9km Torps...but their so very slow, and their dmg output becomes a complete joke.

The Kitakami... The Kitakami is the ultimate in lulz ships. How do you feel about a single ship launching more than 30 torpedoes in a single volley? The Kitakami can launch 40. The problem was...she was released in an Era of WOWS where none of us honestly knew what we were doing lol. The Kitakami has the literal honor of having killed more FRIENDLIES than hostile ships. The ship itself wasn't all that great..but the 40 torpedoes... when you got 3 of them out on the field at once, made a wall of torpedoes that very few ships could do anything about if they got into range.

The problem of course with 120 torpedoes in the water..(not counting torps from other ships that might be on the field) was, that NO ONE could really evade the torps if they were anywhere near being infront of them.

I agree the NM is way more agile than you'd think just by looking at her. My first two games with the NM against the AI I was dodging torps a lot easier than I was in the NY. I could still dodge them in the NY, if I managed to see the torp plane coming early enough to slam on the brakes and yank the wheel to the side and turn into the torps. I'd miss the closest torp by about 3-5 meters. In the NM I'm able to actually slow down and turn enough to completely miss the torps if I see them coming, but she's still stock right now aside from the engine upgrade, so that might have to do with it.

I also agree the SC isn't a bad ship, the worst ship I've ever driven is definitely the Kawachi. I'm only playing Battleships and Cruisers. DDs, while they're small and fast, I think are just too easily destroyed by guns and the only way to do well in them is with torps. The Kawachi is arguably the absolute worst ship in the game, though it seems you and I remember the Chester very differently. I actually did fairly well with my Chester way back.

Now the Dresden and Novik if you want to get into Tier 2 ships. My first two times out with those ships, I swear to God were my worst games ever. Both times as soon as the enemy came into range, they literally looked at me and I just blew up. One shotted twice in each ship and I was literally screaming "WHAT THE F***!" at my TV. At which point I started playing those two ships more defensively until I was able to upgrade their hulls. Never one-shotted again after that point.

I'll also agree that the NY was in a bit of a shaky place when it came up against the higher tier BBs. I've mostly been playing against the AI lately, and I've come up against NMs, Colos, Kongos, Fusos and Nagatos... The NMs I could deal with if they were aimed at my team mates, same with the Kongo and Fuso. But the Colo and Nagato, those things look at you, just bend over and kiss your butt goodbye.

You would think the AI wouldn't be that hard to deal with, but it really comes down to your team mates.

If they have NO F***ING CLUE what they're doing, you will lose in less than 2 minutes. If they have a decent idea what they're doing, you've got more than a 50% shot of not losing, and if they really know what they're doing, you're almost guaranteed to win, but it's such a crap shoot when it comes to the people you're matched with it's a real teeth grinder when you get a bad team.

[Mavairo]

Alan Davion, on 02 June 2016 - 01:40 PM, said:

I agree the NM is way more agile than you'd think just by looking at her. My first two games with the NM against the AI I was dodging torps a lot easier than I was in the NY. I could still dodge them in the NY, if I managed to see the torp plane coming early enough to slam on the brakes and yank the wheel to the side and turn into the torps. I'd miss the closest torp by about 3-5 meters. In the NM I'm able to actually slow down and turn enough to completely miss the torps if I see them coming, but she's still stock right now aside from the engine upgrade, so that might have to do with it.

I also agree the SC isn't a bad ship, the worst ship I've ever driven is definitely the Kawachi. I'm only playing Battleships and Cruisers. DDs, while they're small and fast, I think are just too easily destroyed by guns and the only way to do well in them is with torps. The Kawachi is arguably the absolute worst ship in the game, though it seems you and I remember the Chester very differently. I actually did fairly well with my Chester way back.

Now the Dresden and Novik if you want to get into Tier 2 ships. My first two times out with those ships, I swear to God were my worst games ever. Both times as soon as the enemy came into range, they literally looked at me and I just blew up. One shotted twice in each ship and I was literally screaming "WHAT THE F***!" at my TV. At which point I started playing those two ships more defensively until I was able to upgrade their hulls. Never one-shotted again after that point.

I'll also agree that the NY was in a bit of a shaky place when it came up against the higher tier BBs. I've mostly been playing against the AI lately, and I've come up against NMs, Colos, Kongos, Fusos and Nagatos... The NMs I could deal with if they were aimed at my team mates, same with the Kongo and Fuso. But the Colo and Nagato, those things look at you, just bend over and kiss your butt goodbye.

You would think the AI wouldn't be that hard to deal with, but it really comes down to your team mates.

If they have NO F***ING CLUE what they're doing, you will lose in less than 2 minutes. If they have a decent idea what they're doing, you've got more than a 50% shot of not losing, and if they really know what they're doing, you're almost guaranteed to win, but it's such a crap shoot when it comes to the people you're matched with it's a real teeth grinder when you get a bad team.

I can't remember the last time I played vs the AI honestly.
The money isn't worth it nor is the XP.
That and..usually your opponents are smarter than the bots. Usually. Though I've been on a lot of teams in High Tier (8+) that make me wonder if I'd rather have Bots...and I think I determined 50% of the time I would rather have friendly bots, than the potatoes that play in high tier matches.

WOWS sweet spot is definitely 4-7 tiers. I'm glad I kept a ship in each tier through those tiers, because honestly that's by far the best pvp gameplay WOWs has to offer are those tiers.

[wanderer]

IIRC, the Kitakami was so fragile you'd see it spit out a bunch of torps at max range, pop smoke, and slide away. And that's it. Area denial every few minutes, because you sure couldn't get close.

It couldn't take more than a few salvos from anything in the same class before sinking.

[Mavairo]

wanderer, on 02 June 2016 - 02:20 PM, said:

IIRC, the Kitakami was so fragile you'd see it spit out a bunch of torps at max range, pop smoke, and slide away. And that's it. Area denial every few minutes, because you sure couldn't get close.

It couldn't take more than a few salvos from anything in the same class before sinking.

Yeah she went down hard and fast, from -any- enemy gun fire. But according to wargaming (dunno wasn't tracking ship stats back then like I do now), the kitakami actually killed more friendlies than hostile targets, per game.
I never owned one, but man were they fun. I think they introduced sheer chaos into the battlefield that broke things up abit lol.

Edited by Mavairo, 02 June 2016 - 02:26 PM.

[dervishx5]

Mavairo, on 02 June 2016 - 01:50 PM, said:

I can't remember the last time I played vs the AI honestly.
The money isn't worth it nor is the XP.
That and..usually your opponents are smarter than the bots. Usually. Though I've been on a lot of teams in High Tier (8+) that make me wonder if I'd rather have Bots...and I think I determined 50% of the time I would rather have friendly bots, than the potatoes that play in high tier matches.

WOWS sweet spot is definitely 4-7 tiers. I'm glad I kept a ship in each tier through those tiers, because honestly that's by far the best pvp gameplay WOWs has to offer are those tiers.

Yeah, seriously, the AI games are a huge waste of time, And if people are playing them because they think that actual people will kick the **** out of them, let me just state for the record that the AI is better than a third of the players you'll face in WoW anyway.

You're also right about the tier range. Tier 1-3 doesn't give you many rewards and most of the people are new. 4-7 is where everyone is leveling their stuff. 8+ there is no game, just people bitching about Wargaming.

I had a little bit of an addiction so I have every nation's line up to a minimum of Tier VI, most Tier VII at this point. I try to flat level all my ships and I keep everything I buy, including the stuff everyone hates. It's fun to take garbage like the Aurora or Pensacola and then get the top score.

My only regret is that WoW doesn't have chat after a match. My god the conversations would be insanely entertaining.

Edited by dervishx5, 02 June 2016 - 02:31 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

Zuesacoatl, on 01 June 2016 - 08:12 PM, said:

WoT has a big p2w crowd in it. Those people will not play mwo because our hero mechs are really not much better than the standard mechs. There are a couple of outliers, but for the most part, you can stomp a hero mech just as easily a CB mech if you have skills. In WoT, if you buy the top tier tank, you can take out the noob who just joined from across the map.

I haven't played WoT for well over two years, I dabble with world of Warships, P2W crowd, I guess I'm one, as I have Warspite and Campbell town, no option if I want to own Royal Navy ships, Atago a long favourite Japanese Cruiser of the Takao class can't get it in any form but premium, same goes for the atlanta and pensacola cruiser, the last of the washington treaty builds.

Many buy premiums because they have to, and just accept the bonuses as something that happens

[Cyborne Elemental]

Because WOT doesn't have ******** lights that can't be hit?

Nor does it have game breaking balance issues like we get whenever a new pay-2-win mech comes out.

+ WOT didn't hire Paul.

[wanderer]

Paul got MWO as his playground by dint of being the original designer.

That his stated heroes are the guys who brought you such gems as Maple Story and rent-a-gun-for-real-money shooters should also tell you why he wouldn't get hired elsewhere.

I'm even curious if Paul actually codes, or if he's merely coming up with things and having others do the grunt work.

[Alan Davion]

wanderer, on 02 June 2016 - 04:43 PM, said:

Paul got MWO as his playground by dint of being the original designer.

That his stated heroes are the guys who brought you such gems as Maple Story and rent-a-gun-for-real-money shooters should also tell you why he wouldn't get hired elsewhere.

I'm even curious if Paul actually codes, or if he's merely coming up with things and having others do the grunt work.

I think it's been shown in a couple of the Dev Livestreams with Tina that Paul actually does do coding work. What kind of coding work we have no idea though.

[ArmandTulsen]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

LIVE ACTION COMMERCIAL WITH GOOD ACTING, MIXED WITH CGI!

[Wintersdark]

Zuesacoatl, on 02 June 2016 - 06:21 AM, said:

I disagree with this. The competitive crowd of MWO has shown a propensity to want to use the easiest way to the top, including cheats and exploits. A lot of competitive players are this way, and that includes p2win.

Absolutely. Though keep in mind, P2W (as yucky as I find it) is in no way like cheating/exploiting: It's fundamentally designed into the game, and is the developers intent.

With that said, yes, competitive players will do everything legitimately allowed to compete. That's basically what being competitive is: Taking every advantage you can to maximize your performance.

Some will take it further and cheat. That doesn't mean those players wouldn't play the game if they couldn't cheat, just that if they have the opportunity to cheat they will do so.

Quote

If some players can not pay to have top gear, they will avoid that game, so yes, we lack some of the population because of the lack of p2win. Thank goodness for that though.

In my entire gaming life, I have never once heard of a player who wouldn't play a game if they couldn't buy an advantage. Never. I certainly don't say it never happens, mind you.

But you know what? I know LOTS of people who haven't played games specifically because they have P2W elements. I am one of these: I won't play games with P2W components. At all.

But you're arguing that having P2W results in gaining more players who'll only play a game if they can P2W than you lose by having P2W in the first place? That's ridiculous.

From a developer standpoint, it's more complex, because while P2W may cost you players overall, it's gaining you paying players, so financially speaking it can make sense.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Yeah, guy that think P2W is a good thing is ridicule.

[Wintersdark]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 02 June 2016 - 06:16 PM, said:

Yeah, guy that think P2W is a good thing is ridicule.

Nobody here thinks it's a good think. Z is just saying he feels P2W brings more players.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Wintersdark, on 02 June 2016 - 06:17 PM, said:

Nobody here thinks it's a good think. Z is just saying he feels P2W brings more players.

I think that after introduction of WoT premium ammo, WoT has lost a lot of its share in the market.
And wows is so nice be cause they did not made same mistake.

[Wintersdark]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 02 June 2016 - 06:45 PM, said:

I think that after introduction of WoT premium ammo, WoT has lost a lot of its share in the market.
And wows is so nice be cause they did not made same mistake.

Yeah, I'm pretty definitely in the camp that P2W costs you players overall, as more won't play a P2W game than people who will only play P2W(I can't believe there are many of those at all).

Sure, p2w probably makes you more money overall, but I highly doubt it gets you more players.