96 replies to this topic

[GreyNovember]

Quad PPC Marauder can alpha almost any map and not shut down. Then it can safely go back to volley firing PPCs per arm with no issues at mid range.

It's brilliant when you accidentally headcap someone with it. More so when you see someone as you poke out, SLAM 40 DAMAGE into a component, then back up giggling while you cool down.

2PPC 35 tonner lights are usable. Like mobile AC20s with minimum range limits.

[Karl Streiger]

Reminds me at the Quad PPC K2s....when HSR implementation was very poor. No feedback and suddenly half your Atlas was missing.
The strange part about is before HSR I uses PPC for good effect too, and i thing they are quite useful now.

As a side note - its strange that once i compared the ability to have 2 PPC or 3 Large Laser on the Heavy Metal. When PPC was king, the 3 Large Laser were a waste of tonnage, while today the 2 PPCs could be considered as waste.

Reason?
I could explain it with the IS LPL.

• it was bad in its first version
  
• range was slightly buffed
  
• damage was buffed
  
• duration was buffed
  
• heat was buffed
  
• GH was buffed

Well during all those buffs, didn't anybody had the brain to see that its enough? That it is necessary to roll back some changes? You shouldn't increase damage and decrease heat - you shouldn't increase damage and reduce duration.... and other bad changes.

Now to the PPC...look we see changes here and then but the last changes didn't change much for most, so i expect that there will several other changes to come until the PPC is complete off again.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Karl Streiger, on 01 June 2016 - 04:04 AM, said:

Reminds me at the Quad PPC K2s....when HSR implementation was very poor. No feedback and suddenly half your Atlas was

Lol, the very first time I used a K2, it was in beta, probably my 1st or 2nd game, I caught a Hunchback from hugging range and saw him looking away and stayed looking away from me, so I thought, "oooh goody, finally a kill". Soooo, I line him up and unload.......4-5-6 volleys later(cuz yes he was that oblivious, he turns back to me and im thinkin' "WTF, no damage at all!?" Not until later did it hit me that I remember reading somewhere about PPCs having 90m minimum range.

oneda, on 31 May 2016 - 11:03 PM, said:

Im no fan of is ppcs. I cant recall how often I managed to surive brawls well into the game when xl mounting mechs were already dmged or when lights thought a cerppc mech is defenseless. Not doing any dmg below 90 meters with ppcs just sux too hard. Id never use them.
But 2 cerppcs with a tc 5 + works fantastic. But I wouldnt use then in immobile heavies or assaults. Ppcs are the perfect no face time weapon. Thats an awesome strength. Even their weaknesses of bad heat is absolutely worth it. To make most out of this weapon you play into that strength. You use mechs that allow you to actually play the no face time style. And for that you need hardpoints and decent mobility. Lights cant atm boat 2 cerppcs + tc 5 effectively atm. You need heat dissipation of at least 1,40 or better 1.43 to be able to fire them reasonably often.

On clan side this leaves medium mechs. They are atm the best choice for cerppcs. That combo is great though. Without a tc 5 + or if you depend on armor rather than no face time they arent half as great.

Yeah, its why on my IS mechs, I always use ERPPC if im using anything, I hate that 90m min range.

My Warhawk has like 1.25 or so. It can fire them reasonably quickly if I chain fire with a slight delay, or dual fire them and back up.

[Cabbage Merchant]

I only use PPCs on my BJ-3, but that's because it's quirked to the max.

I think they're not worth it otherwise. They need either less heat or more speed to be worth taking on non-quirked mechs.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Cabbage Merchant, on 01 June 2016 - 06:07 AM, said:

I only use PPCs on my BJ-3, but that's because it's quirked to the max.

I think they're not worth it otherwise. They need either less heat or more speed to be worth taking on non-quirked mechs.

I would agree they are mostly viable only on quirked mechs. 12.88 heat on the Warhawk makes them able to chain fire a decent amount of times, vs 14 on a smaller mech with less DHS. Then the velocity increase on the Warhawk is mostly what makes them workable. The base stats for PPCs are not that great. Then again, maybe that is PGI's goal, to keep PPCs from becoming the ubiquitous gun of the game. I suppose its not a bad thing.

But on the Warhawk, <3 PPC now lol. Logged in for 3 games this morning, got 2w 1l, 1st game was a 1088 dmg, I think its my personal highest. Get to just sit mid-long range and just unload. With reasonable velocity, I can put a sensible amount of lead on, which at 900m is just left or right of the mech, instead of before, where i had to lead like 3-4 mech lengths behind or in front, at which point they stop or w/e and it misses...

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 01 June 2016 - 06:27 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

PPCs are generally ok.

They should have a bit faster velocity, but it is doable as is. The only thing that seems to throw me off more than anything is going from a mech with good PPC quirks to one that doesn't. It throws off my timing a bit and I need to readjust.

Anyway, I run some crazy PPC/ERPPC/C-ERPPC builds anyway, so maybe I'm just crazy anyway lol.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1fc38d9a18230e8

or this if you want a bit less short range punch (and probably the better choice too considering the ERPPC positioning)...
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...213e105b94758df

[A banana in the tailpipe]

They seem decent enough vs clans who store ammo in strange places then the PPC crit knocks out entire omnipods. Greedy people who want to see big numbers will still be disappointed, but the PPC is a great disabling weapon.

Edited by A banana in the tailpipe, 01 June 2016 - 06:30 AM.

[Requiemking]

The Mist Lynx actually is pretty good with ERPPCs despite lacking in Quirks. It has the best jump of the Clan mechs and is decently fast.

[MeiSooHaityu]

A banana in the tailpipe, on 01 June 2016 - 06:30 AM, said:

They seem decent enough vs clans who store ammo in strange places then the PPC crit knocks out entire omnipods. Greedy people who want to see big numbers will still be disappointed, but the PPC is a great disabling weapon.

That's actually a good point. It makes me think that if I did run my second linked EBJ build, I may want to move that SRM ammo to the arms (1 per arm and launcher). No point in risking an ammo explosion knocking out the C-ERPPC.

[Ultimax]

Juodas Varnas, on 31 May 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

PPCs are fine on heavily quirked chassis.

They're not fine on... Anything else.

This community repeatedly asked for this to be the situation.

This is what shortsightedness and players lobbying for their favorite mechs to be the bestest and most unique snowflake gets us.

Edited by Ultimax, 01 June 2016 - 03:07 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

A banana in the tailpipe, on 01 June 2016 - 06:30 AM, said:

They seem decent enough vs clans who store ammo in strange places then the PPC crit knocks out entire omnipods. Greedy people who want to see big numbers will still be disappointed, but the PPC is a great disabling weapon.

What are big numbers? Ive been putting up 500-700, had 2 1000s, im content with that. Even a loss I put up 599 with 3 kills, topping the next highest on my team by like 200. My worst game in the last 2 days was 198, Crimson Strait is my Kryptonite...I hate that map. Next worst is mid 200s where I spent more time running around then shooting. It beats the struggling to get 300s I was doing...

[Mystere]

Ultimax, on 01 June 2016 - 07:19 AM, said:

This community asked for this to be the situation repeatedly.

This is what shortsightedness and players lobbying for their favorite mechs to be the bestest and most unique snowflake gets us.

No kidding. If people did not loudly whine poptarts to death, we could possibly now have at the very least OMFGGigaAlphasOfDeath behemoths vs. poptarts vs. nimble jump brawlers. But no, we now only have the first. <smh>

[LordKnightFandragon]

Mystere, on 01 June 2016 - 07:41 AM, said:

No kidding. If people did not loudly whine poptarts to death, we could possibly now have at the very least OMFGGigaAlphasOfDeath behemoths vs. poptarts vs. nimble jump brawlers. But no, we now only have the first. <smh>

I prefer WTFBBQAlphaOfDoom, but thats just me.

[DerMaulwurf]

I used PPCs before we had HSR, so I know that things could be worse. I also still run them on several of my favorite mechs.

But that doesn't change that you generally don't see them on mechs that aren't specifically quirked for PPCs. And I even see heavily quirked mechs running lasers more often than PPCs.

You can make as many arguments about how they are totally fine in theory/for you. But if players vastly prefer alternative options, that's still a pretty strong argument.

Frankly, I want to see PPC speed quirks gone. Having 50% quirks pretty much guarantees that the non-quirked version must suck, to not make the quirked versions crazy. And having different projectile speeds between different mechs is pretty annoying.

[Raso]

The problem with the PPCs, as I see it, isn't that they are bad but that they aren't the best and don't do anything the LPL doesn't do better and with less heat.

This is online, competitive gaming. If a weapon/loadout/class/mech/tank/skill isn't the best then it's worthless. The PC is almost in a good place but the LPL is king atm. There needs to be some serious re-balancing across the board t make the PPC worthwhile.

[LordNothing]

DAYLEET, on 31 May 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

PPC's are bad when you keep forgetting they have a minimum range because youve only used ER for a year. After 2 days of doing nothing but poptart dual ac5 2 ppc on my Heavy Metal im getting the feel of it and kinda stop getting too close.

The weapon itself is a 10 point of pin point damage which is excellent under any condition as it has always been.

you have to treat them kind of like is lerms. backup weapons are a must. then just use them for ranged engagements. for example i have a black knight with 2 of them, and they are backed with 5 medium pulse lasers. i use the lasers almost exclusively inside their optimal range because they are more useful than the ppcs, which are more or less just adding some range to the build. you also have a 50 point alpha in dire circumstances (provided the range is appropriate).

if you are going to run ppcs only, then use ers.

Edited by LordNothing, 01 June 2016 - 08:43 AM.

[LowSubmarino]

No matter how you look at it. Ppcs nature of delivering all dmg on impact and that you do not have to face tank at all are major advantages. Even insane heat costs dont counter this strength.

I realized that when I went for a fun build some months ago. Prior to the slight ppc velocity/heat buff.

Even before that buff the targeting computer + cerppc combo was insanely strong in some builds.

No face time allows you to survive much, much longer in a multitude of scenarios. Right now heat and quirks limit ppcs (specially erppcs) to only a few chassis. And you cant go for much else if you want to use the ppcs as your main weapon.

If they buffed ppcs further, then they would dominate the battlefield. Even now most ppl dont realize just how strong especially cerppcs actually are.

If you are in a mobile mech and you got decent or even great hardpoints and use a targeting computer 5+ you are absolutely lethal vs especially heavies and assaults.

Acs are virtually useless against you if you know how to use mobility and terrain and know your mech well. JJs make the cerppc builds even stronger. Lasers will rarely do a lot of dmg as you popp into vision, deliver your full dmg and vanish as quickly as your mech allows.

Gauss rifles can be effective against you if the other player has great aim and is quick. Or another quirked (or tc) ppc build.

Most ppl use lasers are acs though. And they are not very effective vs a dedicated cerppc build.

Is ironic. When the meta was ppcs (+ gauss) back in the days I used lasers. Specially the is erlls. Now, the meta is laser and I use cerppcs. Cerppcs are so much fun and so damn effective, that I rarely use lasers now. They force you to face tank. Even if its just a second or below a second.

The ability to fire and forget right away is great. Just great. On big maps like polar or alpine or even the hot tourmaline or other maps with great terrain like frozen city or canyon I actually smile, when I see heavies and assaults approaching. I know what most of them are boating. And 90 % of the builds cant even hit me. You can hit mediums too but if the pilot is good it will become tougher and tougher to hit them beyond 600 meters. Its still possible though if your (cer) ppcs are fast enough. And for that you need at least a tc 5.

Its also a dilemma. Buff (cer) ppcs in general you will only make those certain already strong builds even more lethal. While all unquirked mechs or those using cerppcs without the tc wont really benefit at all. You need massive quirks of at least 50 % for normal ppcs to make them reliable. Of course they work even completly unquirked. But compare that to how effective they can be with 50 % speed quirks or a tc 5 +.

It would be extremely difficult to balance ppcs if they were viable and effective in all mechs. They prolly realized that they cant balance them and did the next best thing. Restrict them to certain chassis or force the player to either completly invest in ppcs or dont use them at all.

Theres the occasional light build using one (c)erppc. Its a nice long range option but after months of testing the real fun and danger begins once you boat 2 (or more) (c)erppcs.

Thats when they start to become a real threat.

You cant really boat more than 2 cerppcs without heavily limiting your mobility though. Since you are forced to take heavy or assault mechs.

And as they - by sheer desing and weight - rather depend on armor then on good mobility to suvive I would use lasers are acs or other combos. They deliver much, much more dmg in much shorter time.

Cerppcs + tc 5 + is fantastic. You will survive forever if you dont get hit. That loadout allows you to not get hit in mobile mechs. But the mechs you will be forced to use are squishy. I cant take a single kodiak alpha or ill loose a (side) torso. Either destroying a few heat sinks and the tc + one cerppc or taking out one cerppc and most of my heatsinks.

Youll be left with one cerppc and thats just bad. Super bad.

I wouldnt recommend those builds for new or inexperienced players. One mistake and you are basically done for. If you know how to avoid incoming fire and know how to use mobile mechs then those builds are atm among the strongest builds out there.

Even though most ppl havent realized that yet.

Some months ago I hardly ever saw even a singly mech use ppcs. Seemed I was the only one.

Now I see more and more. Not that many yet but there are some ppl both on is and clan side using them.

I wouldnt be surprised if we see a resurrection of the ppcs as very popular builds soon.

Heavily quirked or with targeting computer + the right chassis they are among the best builds out there.

[Der Hesse]

For me PPCs just don´t register. 2/3 shots do nothing. It´s like that for ages.

[EvilCow]

Almost useful. I recommend:

- Increase velocity by 20% across the board.
- Reduce velocity quirks by 20% across the board.
- Normal PPC should return to linear damage drop we had in the past.
- Another -0.5 heat.

The rationale is:
- Reduce gap between quirked and non quirked mechs, right now it is only almost decent with heavy quirks..
- Better position PPC as an alternative to LPLs. The range limit is killing it in the role.

Edited by EvilCow, 01 June 2016 - 09:07 AM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

DerMaulwurf, on 01 June 2016 - 08:26 AM, said:

I used PPCs before we had HSR, so I know that things could be worse. I also still run them on several of my favorite mechs.

But that doesn't change that you generally don't see them on mechs that aren't specifically quirked for PPCs. And I even see heavily quirked mechs running lasers more often than PPCs.

You can make as many arguments about how they are totally fine in theory/for you. But if players vastly prefer alternative options, that's still a pretty strong argument.

Frankly, I want to see PPC speed quirks gone. Having 50% quirks pretty much guarantees that the non-quirked version must suck, to not make the quirked versions crazy. And having different projectile speeds between different mechs is pretty annoying.

Im not sayin' I wouldnt like to see them still buffed up or tweaked a little, im just sayin' as they are now, I guess they are good enough for me.

Id still like to see 12-15 dmg for CERPPC, maybe a little less heat for ISERPPC and more velocity across the board.