188 replies to this topic

[Bud Crue]

This whole "debate" of who ruined CW: PGI or large units is, in my opinion, utterly stupid. If a game or game mode can be "ruined" by players getting together and playing the game in large number (i.e. large units) that is a problem with the mechanisms of the game. That can only be PGI's fault.

I don't like getting farmed by MS et al. any more than any one, but the answer to that problem should really be for me to "git gud" and join a unit of fellow who have already "got gud" so that I don't get farmed. Based on the population I am seeing of late however, I am pretty sure that the current "solution" of "making the game suck so that large units go away", or whatever P3 is supposed to be, has affected all of us. Who's fault is that again?

[Armando]

Bud Crue, on 05 June 2016 - 11:53 AM, said:

This whole "debate" of who ruined CW: PGI or large units is, in my opinion, utterly stupid. If a game or game mode can be "ruined" by players getting together and playing the game in large number (i.e. large units) that is a problem with the mechanisms of the game. That can only be PGI's fault.

I don't like getting farmed by MS et al. any more than any one, but the answer to that problem should really be for me to "git gud" and join a unit of fellow who have already "got gud" so that I don't get farmed. Based on the population I am seeing of late however, I am pretty sure that the current "solution" of "making the game suck so that large units go away", or whatever P3 is supposed to be, has affected all of us. Who's fault is that again?

I tell you who's fault it is....it's that dammed CookieWarrior.

If CookieWarrior was HALF the Warrior he SHOULD be every Faction on the map would have a Strong and STABLE Mercenary presence 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. CLEARLY CookieWarrior FAILED everyone. He failed PGI, he failed his teammates, he failed his community.

I know what we should do....BAN HIS A$$. That will solve EVERYTHING!!!!

Edited by Armando, 05 June 2016 - 12:59 PM.

[Ssamout]

The problem isnt the big units or the "comp" units playing. It never has. It's the crap thats been allowed to drop in cw since day one.
Because "fp" isn't gated, the skill gap between pilots has been growing ever since cw first launched.

At the moment its so huge, that it isnt funny anymore for even the most seasoned seal clubbers. There some real horrid **** going on right now. I really dont recommend to even check it out.. and thats sad, cos I like the mode, even while dropping solo and getting farmed by that evil ms..

Well done pgi.

Edited by Ssamout, 05 June 2016 - 01:15 PM.

[Davers]

The problem isn't 'big units', The problem is that PGI doesn't know what to do with them.

All the giant units (and comp units) should have been incentivized to leave the pugs and smaller units alone- maybe given them territory to fight over in the Periphery in exchange for real MC rewards. Instead just like in Beta, players were allowed to form teams and then trounce solo players, and the solo players have hated units for it ever since.

Instead of creating a game where players are encouraged to form large active communities to accomplish in game goals (such as the empire building of EVE or the end game raids of WoW) PGI just continually shows their complete inexperience and mishandling of their community by letting large units (through no fault of their own, though they have surely reaped the benefits) continually drop against smaller units and solo players, both in FP and the Group QP.

[Monodominant]

For the record... Eve prospers within its niche community of people who always wanted to be accountants but could never deal with the stress of balancing an account.

And they do love big units there. In fact big units create some of the MOST FUN moments in that spreadsheet of a game. Without them half the major battles that get written about even outside the games forums would never have happened.

Noone blames them for ruining the game.

At the end of the day... since Phase 3 came out and the event finished this topic appears very often. So, something is clearly happening and its not a good thing. Many mistakes, many promises that didnt live up to it etc.

I still cant comprehend how big units hurt people. If MS has 24 people that dropped every night forming 2 groups of 12... people who go solo would still lose to them. The fact that there are 400 MS on the player list doesnt change that. Many are inactive, many are casuals, many dont do FW anymore. The bottom line is that you dont blame vs 400 players when you drop in a FW match. You play vs 12... so if you get seal clubbed you got seal clubbed by those 12 players. How is the 400 people team mattering in this?

Now you can say that due to their numbers, MS will win more planets. Sure... yes, you are write. But the solo player or the player who formed a one man unit or even the player in the 10 man unit would never get any planets ANYWAY. Plus is everyone playing FW just for the planets? I thought people played for the game mode (4 waves of 12 with a bit more strategy than quickplay) and for the merc/loyalist rewards (i.e. mechbays really). So what do you care if MS won the planets when you were not there for those anyway?

[Danjo San]

CentsOfFate, on 04 June 2016 - 04:25 PM, said:

Congratulations MWO Community. Your witch hunt of killing the large units of the game has finally seen the fruits of your labor. You won.

Now there's a huge exodus of players from the game. I hope you are happy with the reward.

Psst, it was me

[Stormbringer13]

z3a1ot, on 05 June 2016 - 01:51 AM, said:

Unfortunatly FW is a barren wasteland atm, I logged in for a few games yesterday and saw 24/44 people in invasion queue on Jade Falcon - Steiner front. Mind you it is Saturday and more people are free and able to play but wont.

In reality big units did this to themselves sadly. Who in a right mind wants to sit in a que waiting for a game sometimes over 20 mins just to be farmed and not have fun at all (im saying this from a PUG solo player perspective).

Wait times are an issue also. Bad design from the start to begin with. Nobody wants to play waitingwarrior online. No matchmaker at all, putting solos against groups another issue.

In my opinion they should "quickplay" FW, meaning I want to get into matches by just simply clicking on a "play" button, wait for a minimum amount of time and be properly matched against other people. Units against solos is just bad policy. This is why you got 40 people playing atm.

I couldn't find any action on the FRR front, so I decided to help out my fellow IS neighbors, as it was the only match running. Surprisingly minimal wait time, dropped on planet, fought for a few minutes, then quickly got dropzonefarmed for my last 3 mechs.

Add to that the consistent glitch of having 1 drop per match not usable because the "Select mech for drop" stays on screen, even after my mech has dropped to the ground. The dropship counter keeps running 30 second cycles. It's not so bad if it happens on the 4th drop, as the match is usually over one way or the other. But if it happens on the 2nd drop, that removes 3 mechs from our forces, as I cannot move or do anything until I die, which usually means my 3 mechs die last for our game.
I suppose if you don't need the xp,gxp, cbills, and LP you can always reboot the game and lose your progress for quitting the game for more than 2 minutes, which seems a scumbag move since it's a game issue, not my problem.
so basically, screw my team over, or screw myself over.
That was over a week ago, and I have not even looked over at the FW side of things since then. Probably won't play it again until there is another event requiring it. Or until I need another Mechbay or 3. Might notr care about being a Loyalist anymore, since the mode isn't up to my standards of play.


Oh, and I'm a new player. In game less than a month. as things stand , I would never drop a dime on the game, despite how entertaining I think the regular quickplay matches are.
Unless maybe you offered a $25 package for all previously released mechs.

Edited by Stormbringer13, 05 June 2016 - 02:09 PM.

[Armando]

Danjo San, on 05 June 2016 - 01:59 PM, said:

Psst, it was me

If by "me" you mean: The Tournament has the vast majority of the Faction Warfare "drop callers" distracted, resulting a Faction Warfare "Leadership Vacuum" you are absolutely a (singular) reason / cause in a long list of many.

If by "me" you mean: YOU!!! That is the best joke I have heard this month, I needed the laugh. /wink

All jokes aside; Danjo San, I got nothing but <3 for you brother!

Back to the jokes: Keep fighting the 'good fight'. BAN THE BIGGIES!!! BAN THE COOKIEWARRIOR!!!

Edited by Armando, 05 June 2016 - 02:14 PM.

[LordNothing]

i think the whole thing was built on a bunch of assumptions that turned out to be wrong. the assumption that it would be mostly for unit play. that they would play for planets. then they gave a bunch of rewards that draw in pugs and that teams would farm said pugs to move up the grind tree faster. p3 tried to address those issues and failed miserably. so were essentially back where we were. then they are calling this final.

the primary focus should have been to launch games as frequently as possible. you look at the map and the whole lobby system thats not really what you care about, what you care about is invasion, and now scouting. planet tagging was really nothing more than a leader board really. there was never any real intention to have them do anything. the mc rewards were tacked on because people wanted a reason to take planets (and should be replaced by some kind of general victory pay, based on level of participation and success). and now we have an actual leaderboard making the planet tagging somewhat redundant.

faction play really should just have one lobby per faction (even merging factions into alliances to concentrate populations if needed). groups of pugs and 12s would stack up. 12s would launch with 12s, pugs with pugs, so long as there were at least a full group of each on each side (otherwise pug funnel). map would have just been a representation of each faction's "score" and would change based on your faction's win/loss ratio.

Edited by LordNothing, 05 June 2016 - 02:45 PM.

[Wan Chu Minge]

LordNothing, on 05 June 2016 - 02:37 PM, said:

i think the whole thing was built on a bunch of assumptions that turned out to be wrong. the assumption that it would be mostly for unit play. that they would play for planets. then they gave a bunch of rewards that draw in pugs and that teams would farm said pugs to move up the grind tree faster. p3 tried to address those issues and failed miserably. so were essentially back where we were. then they are calling this final.

the primary focus should have been to launch games as frequently as possible. you look at the map and the whole lobby system thats not really what you care about, what you care about is invasion, and now scouting. planet tagging was really nothing more than a leader board really. there was never any real intention to have them do anything. the mc rewards were tacked on because people wanted a reason to take planets (and should be replaced by some kind of general victory pay, based on level of participation and success). and now we have an actual leaderboard making the planet tagging somewhat redundant.

faction play really should just have one lobby per faction (even merging factions into alliances to concentrate populations if needed). groups of pugs and 12s would stack up. 12s would launch with 12s, pugs with pugs, so long as there were at least a full group of each on each side (otherwise pug funnel). map would have just been a representation of each faction's "score" and would change based on your faction's win/loss ratio.

We use capital letters to mark the beginning of a sentence and we use full stops to mark the end of a sentence:

We went to France last summer. We were really surprised that it was so easy to travel on the motorways.

The Football World Cup takes place every four years. The next World Cup will be held in South Africa. In 2006 it was held in Germany.


We also use capital letters at the beginning of proper nouns. Proper nouns include personal names (including titles before names), nationalities and languages, days of the week and months of the year, public holidays as well as geographical places:

Dr David James is the consultant at Leeds City Hospital.

They are planning a long holiday in New Zealand.

Can she speak Japanese?

The next meeting of the group will take place on Thursday.

What plans do you have for Chinese New Year?


We use capital letters for the titles of books, magazines and newspapers, plays and music:

‘Oliver’ is a musical based on the novel ‘Oliver Twist’ by Charles Dickens.

The Straits Times is a daily English language newspaper in Singapore.

They are performing Beethoven’s Sixth Symphony.


In addition to closing sentences, we also use full stops in initials for personal names:

G. W. Dwyer

David A. Johnston, Accountant


Full stops are also used after abbreviations, although this practice is becoming less common.

Edited by Wan Chu Minge, 05 June 2016 - 03:09 PM.

[Ssamout]

what did i just read.

[MischiefSC]

Armando, on 05 June 2016 - 09:08 AM, said:

This is where we disagree...instead of allowing 'solo' players to partake in 'team game mode', PGI should provide solo pilots with the tools and resources to FIND a team BEFORE they queue for a 'team game mode'.

NO ONE should EVER 'drop solo' in a 'team game mode'. It is setting the solo player up for inevitable FAILURE, and setting teams up for lame, lopsided, boring gaming experience....the epitome of a lose / lose situation for EVERYONE.
___________________________________________________________

If I were to assign 'blame' for the current state of Faction Warfare it would be...

1) PGI for not giving solo players the tools and resources they need to find, join, and play as a team with teammates. (I blame PGI for not making it easy for 'solo' pilots to find a team before they queue for a 'team game mode').

2) Solo pilots for playing a 'team game mode'....SOLO. (Seriously, I have a Box of Rocks that has come up with better ideas...and I might add, the Rocks don't complain when their foolish ideas end in tears either).

Notice what is missing from the list....units. Why are the excluded? Because win or lose (and being in a unit, dropping as a team, is still no guarantee of success) they are playing a 'team game mode'...AS A TEAM. (I know, I know....what crazy, stupid, heartless A-Hol3$...right).

I pug in FW most the time. However that consists of trying to find a group in TS and if that fails look for drops with a 4man+ in queue and fill in, find out what TS they are on and try to be plugged in with them before the drop starts. If that's not an option (different factions on Clan border) I at least try to stay synced with them and plug into whatever strat they're running and be a benefit to the team.

I enjoy that. It's fun, you see a lot of different strategies and approaches to the game and I win a lot more than I lose. I do this in IS and Clan both.

It's a little more work than trying to play FW like it's QP however losing 80% of the time is less fun than winning 80% of the time and that little, tiny bit of effort, that's the difference between 80% losses (BIG GROUPS SO MEAN! NO FAIR) and 80% wins (lol 3 of them with LRM 60 TBRs, I smell a farm to 48).

In the end though it's none of these things. The only thing MS being gone changes is less total drops for everyone. It's a different tag farming them. That's it. Just more waiting between losses.

There are such simple, simple fixes. 1 planet per front is the most direct - no more attack/defend queue means no more units in attack queue and puggles in defense. ZOMG MAGIC. With 1/2 the queues you can now have 2 open lanes per planet for the same population cost. That means more people available to play with more people.

Second is put FW content in QP. Let people play it, practice it in a doesn't matter pug environment and then graduate to a higher paying does matter FW environment if they want. It's so simple.

There's a ton of things people have pointed out that are a bit more complex than that but would add oceans of depth to FW and attract a lot of people. Not just to FW but MW:O overall; a rich loyalist system with rewards they get but can vote to share to attract mercs, votes to accept specific merc units at a big bonus (so loyalists would make less and mercs make more for that timeframe) so there's some control over who gets hired where and loyalists have more sense of control over their faction, etc. etc. etc.

None of which will happen though because it would mean PGI would have to really do something and they don't do that. They've made that clear. They make tweaks, the occasional broken feature (Long Tom) and mech packs. Here is one example from 2 years ago. The whole thread is PGI posting an update on some much anticipated changes that were not out yet. See the link at the bottom, with the discussion page where we had a back and forth with a couple different devs about the proposed changes?

Yeah. PGI giving half of a flying **** about the game is so 2 years ago. Read back over the old Command Chair threads. It'll break your heart. Back when MW:O wasn't a job they clearly hated serving customers they had abject contempt for and were just hoping to gouge maximum profit from before moving on.

Not that PGI was ever a top shelf developer but the last 2 years since FW came out.... I'm more invested in getting the right mix of half-and-half into the coffee I'm about to go drink than they are in making MW:O a fun, engaging and well balanced game.

[Kin3ticX]

At this point it really just comes down to product life cycle, slow as molasses development, and mistakes upon mistakes.

CW is just such an ambitious project if you think about it. What can I say?.....at least they tried?

I don't think its entirely because of PGI missing the mark on phase 3. Some people are just plain burned out just from the unaltered combat in phase 2 (save for 4v4).

So yeah, people were already burned out on CW phase 2 with a prolonged wait for phase 3 which didnt really reinvigorate it. If you played phase 2 until your face melted, phase 3 isnt going to do much for you.

I still got tons of playtime out of it despite its incomplete nature. Hell im like rank 10+ in 6 factions and rank 19 in wolf. I played the **** out of it and many played more than I did.

[LordNothing]

Wan Chu Minge, on 05 June 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

We use capital letters to mark the beginning of a sentence and we use full stops to mark the end of a sentence:

We went to France last summer. We were really surprised that it was so easy to travel on the motorways.

The Football World Cup takes place every four years. The next World Cup will be held in South Africa. In 2006 it was held in Germany.


We also use capital letters at the beginning of proper nouns. Proper nouns include personal names (including titles before names), nationalities and languages, days of the week and months of the year, public holidays as well as geographical places:

Dr David James is the consultant at Leeds City Hospital.

They are planning a long holiday in New Zealand.

Can she speak Japanese?

The next meeting of the group will take place on Thursday.

What plans do you have for Chinese New Year?


We use capital letters for the titles of books, magazines and newspapers, plays and music:

‘Oliver’ is a musical based on the novel ‘Oliver Twist’ by Charles Dickens.

The Straits Times is a daily English language newspaper in Singapore.

They are performing Beethoven’s Sixth Symphony.


In addition to closing sentences, we also use full stops in initials for personal names:

G. W. Dwyer

David A. Johnston, Accountant


Full stops are also used after abbreviations, although this practice is becoming less common.

i dun need no education. didnt you ever listen to pink floyd? and u call yerself edjucated.

Edited by LordNothing, 05 June 2016 - 04:01 PM.

[Kin3ticX]

fear not my community warfare i mean faction warfare i mean faction play friends,

PGI is training up to come back better than ever with phase 4

[JaxRiot]

So, 40 possible ques and the majority of the population in a hand full of units...

What could possibly go wrong?

[Crockdaddy]

Sader325, on 04 June 2016 - 01:33 PM, said:

Was make CW suck so bad we wont even play it anymore.

I give you Mercstar teamspeak 5 PM on a Saturday




Well, PGI congrats. You did it.

Here is where you can usually find the NS guys. Stellaris, Overwatch, Total War Warhammer, Rust, Path of Exile ... sometimes we even play MWO and even less often Faction Play. Congrats PGI! You win!

Edited by Crockdaddy, 06 June 2016 - 08:43 AM.

[Kin3ticX]

Sader325, on 04 June 2016 - 01:33 PM, said:

Was make CW suck so bad we wont even play it anymore.

I give you Mercstar teamspeak 5 PM on a Saturday




Well, PGI congrats. You did it.

lol all those all-caps channels were made by me


my only regret was not calling the mist lynx a myth lynx


the realities of helping run a unit....

Crockdaddy, on 05 June 2016 - 04:26 PM, said:

Here is where you can usually find the NS guys. Stellaris, Overwatch, Total War Warhammer, Rust, Path of Exile ... sometimes we even play MWO and even left often Faction Play. Congrats PGI! You win!

but you guys did play the **** out of CW for a good portion of phase 2


phase 3 would have need to be something very remarkable with that long wait and the burn-out

Edited by Kin3ticX, 05 June 2016 - 04:48 PM.

[Chef Kerensky]

Armando, on 05 June 2016 - 09:56 AM, said:

With the right team everyone could drop in the absolute WORST trail mechs and still win 90+% of their matches against any group of 12 'solo' players.

Uh, no I don't think so. There's some serious garbage out there in those trial mechs.

[FallingAce]

If PGI's plan was to make the loyalist quit(loyalty penalty) and the small units quit (no reasonable means to succeed) thereby leaving the large merc units no one left to fight so they quit, Then congrats PGI your plan has succeeded.