78 replies to this topic

[Big Tin Man]

Increase UAC jam chance 5%.

That's it. Just enough to make the quad 10's or 5's and 10's a bit less attractive.

The only problem with this mech is UAC boating. So discourage it, and only it. Can we please blitz Russ and Paul with this so they don't totally break an otherwise good mech?

[iLLcapitan]

lol.
nerf every good thing out there, till all there is left is mediocrity.

[Big Tin Man]

iLLcapitan, on 08 June 2016 - 06:47 AM, said:

lol.
nerf every good thing out there, till all there is left is mediocrity.

When all I see are matches with no less than 6 Kodiak 3's all running quad UAC10's, there's a balance issue.

And yes, I own the KDK. I've run the quad UAC10, and 5's and 10's together. It is a hair overpowered, but not devastatingly OP unless ignored. And you shouldn't ignore 100 ton mechs. This is why such a small quirk would bring balance.

[Sjorpha]

The problem with that is that the gauss ppc and gaussvomit builds on the 3 are just as powerful as the dakka.

[2fast2stompy]

Sjorpha, on 08 June 2016 - 07:13 AM, said:

The problem with that is that the gauss ppc and gaussvomit builds on the 3 are just as powerful as the dakka.

This. And like the Dire Wolf builds, the gauss builds are better than dakka outside QP

[Hydrocarbon]

UAC's are only highly effective when potatoes stop their mech, don't twist, or try to brawl your 100t mech with a 45t ankle biter.

Fix your play style and that will "fix" the Kodiak.

[Damien Tokala]

on the one condition that YOU, personally, get a 1000% heat spike to any weapon fired from your mechs, and a 100% jam chance to ALL ballistic and missile weapons which will then explode with 5k damage shortly after. and if you manage to damage an enemy mech, you will be charged 500$ per point of damage, paid to the victim of your cheap tactics.

because if anyone else can't have fun, why should you?

[Big Tin Man]

Sjorpha, on 08 June 2016 - 07:13 AM, said:

The problem with that is that the gauss ppc and gaussvomit builds on the 3 are just as powerful as the dakka.

The gauss ppc builds run the risk of a gauss explosion taking a PPC arm with it, if you can manage to hit a Kodiak in the shoulder. Agreed that they're better than dakka outside of QP where you can stay at range and see the benefits. Hell, I had a 1500 damage 7 kill game in my ppc/gauss whale, and plenty of 1k damage games. I know the power of that build, but the DPS of quad 10's on the KDK3 is a hair much in a brawl.

Can nobody understand the power of a slight adjustment? Increasing UAC jam chance by 5% renders the mech worthless? Really? The only reason the IS UAC builds work is because of the 30% reduction to jamming on the Jager and Enforcer, or running quad on the Mauler or King Crab.

[Pariah Devalis]

Big Tin Man, on 08 June 2016 - 06:44 AM, said:

Increase UAC jam chance 5%.

That's it. Just enough to make the quad 10's or 5's and 10's a bit less attractive.

The only problem with this mech is UAC boating. So discourage it, and only it. Can we please blitz Russ and Paul with this so they don't totally break an otherwise good mech?

Tell me... as it currently stands, how terrible is it to face the UAC on the Shadow Cat, Adder, Nova, Gargoyle, Mad Dog, or any other mech aside from the Kodiak?

What you propose would directly impact mechs that cannot boat UAC, which is already an arguably inferior weapon system to INNER SPHERE UAC5, which hit harder per bullet, do so at longer ranges, with faster projectile speeds. This is the Clan Mauler. I'll say to you what the extremely obnoxious IS players said every time the Clans got faced with a nerf or a superquirked IS mech: Get good and/or learn to adapt to the battlefield!

I personally don't agree with that argument, but you can thank your own IS loyalists for that one. It comes off as pissy and self-righteous, but just this one I have to feel a little bit of joy at it, considering. However, there are absolutely counters to the Dakkabear. Charging directly at one isn't one of them.

Fight moving laterally to the Kodiak. Armor roll. The mech will get hot fairly quickly, despite its insane damage toss downrange, but all that damage? ALL that damage is spreadable. Like warm butter. Failing that, hit and fade because the Dakkabear is a DPS machine. It is designed to spend time dumping damage downrange, and it is disadvantaged against hit and fade PPFLD weapon systems.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 08 June 2016 - 08:24 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Then you just need to pray to RNGeesus more often, it's not a viable solution IMO

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Bye Felicia

[ScarecrowES]

Interesting though... modify UAC jam chance to scale based on number of cannons equipped. Decrease jam chance for a single UAC by 10%, neutral for 2 UACs, increased jam chance by 5% for 3 UACs, 10% for 4.

Bonuses for mechs with single UAC usage to offset jam chance. Normal jam chance for most mech that use 2. Increased jam chance for mechs that boat.

Not advocating this approach, just offering it as an alternative.

[Gas Guzzler]

Big Tin Man, on 08 June 2016 - 07:54 AM, said:

The gauss ppc builds run the risk of a gauss explosion taking a PPC arm with it, if you can manage to hit a Kodiak in the shoulder. Agreed that they're better than dakka outside of QP where you can stay at range and see the benefits. Hell, I had a 1500 damage 7 kill game in my ppc/gauss whale, and plenty of 1k damage games. I know the power of that build, but the DPS of quad 10's on the KDK3 is a hair much in a brawl.

Can nobody understand the power of a slight adjustment? Increasing UAC jam chance by 5% renders the mech worthless? Really? The only reason the IS UAC builds work is because of the 30% reduction to jamming on the Jager and Enforcer, or running quad on the Mauler or King Crab.

The problem is the UAC10 build isn't even dominant in high level play, so why nerf it just because the masses don't want to figure out how to counter it.

[Raso]

ScarecrowES, on 08 June 2016 - 08:17 AM, said:

Interesting though... modify UAC jam chance to scale based on number of cannons equipped. Decrease jam chance for a single UAC by 10%, neutral for 2 UACs, increased jam chance by 5% for 3 UACs, 10% for 4.

Bonuses for mechs with single UAC usage to offset jam chance. Normal jam chance for most mech that use 2. Increased jam chance for mechs that boat.

Not advocating this approach, just offering it as an alternative.

Ghost Jam?

[Mystere]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 June 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

The problem is the UAC10 build isn't even dominant in high level play, so why nerf it just because the masses don't want to figure out how to counter it.

Which begs the question: do we balance things at the competitive or scrub level, or somewhere in-between? In addition, how would we scientifically and quantitatively verify balance? Frankly, I have had it with MWO balancing based on "feelings".

Edited by Mystere, 08 June 2016 - 08:25 AM.

[Pr8Dator]

Why break a perfectly fine mech? hahaha

In case some of the people here don't know, the tagline of this game is "Boatwarrior"... it has been and will always be the ultimate playstyle of this game... my fav mech so far in this game is a boat... 7 SPL AC20 Marauder laser boat. Now I boat Kodiaks...

Before all of these... I was boating 3x LBX10 IMs... those were the days LOL!

Edited by Pr8Dator, 08 June 2016 - 08:29 AM.

[Kuaron]

iLLcapitan, on 08 June 2016 - 06:47 AM, said:

lol.
nerf every good thing out there, till all there is left is mediocrity game balance.

FIFY.

[Mystere]

Raso, on 08 June 2016 - 08:21 AM, said:

Ghost Jam?

Are you talking about this?

[Big Tin Man]

Pariah Devalis, on 08 June 2016 - 08:06 AM, said:

Tell me... as it currently stands, how terrible is it to face the UAC on the Shadow Cat, Adder, Nova, Gargoyle, Mad Dog, or any other mech aside from the Kodiak?

What you propose would directly impact mechs that cannot boat UAC, which is already an arguably inferior weapon system to INNER SPHERE UAC5, which hit harder per bullet, do so at longer ranges, with faster projectile speeds. This is the Clan Mauler. I'll say to you what the extremely obnoxious IS players said every time the Clans got faced with a nerf or a superquirked IS mech: Get good and/or learn to adapt to the battlefield!

I personally don't agree with that argument, but you can thank your own IS loyalists for that one. There are absolutely counters to the Dakkabear. Charging directly at one isn't one of them.

Fight moving laterally to the Kodiak. Armor roll. The mech will get hot fairly quickly, despite its insane damage toss downrange, but all that damage? ALL that damage is spreadable. Like warm butter. Failing that, hit and fade because the Dakkabear is a DPS machine. It is designed to spend time dumping damage downrange, and it is disadvantaged against hit and fade PPFLD weapon systems.

You misunderstood my proposal. This quirk would be specific only to the KDK-3. All other mechs would not be effected, as it is a quirk and not a full on weapon adjustment.

As for the effects on high level play, it wouldn't effect that either as boating UAC's isn't the current high level meta. The sole purpose of this quirk is to help the pugs understand there is more to life than boating UAC's without rendering UAC's useless.

You know, balance?

Edited by Big Tin Man, 08 June 2016 - 08:29 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Mystere, on 08 June 2016 - 08:25 AM, said:

Which begs the question: do we balance things at the competitive or scrub level, or somewhere in-between? In addition, how would we scientifically and quantitatively verify balance? Frankly, I have had it with MWO balancing based on "feelings".

Balance it based on top end play. If you balance it based on anything else, you're balancing weapon systems on suboptimal usage. You cannot, cannot balance a game based on the lowest common denominator because that just leads to homogenization of weapons and a very low skill ceiling. By making each weapon fill a specific niche at top end play, however, you vastly increase the skill cap and the value of each weapon system as they fill their various battlefield roles.

That said, the downside of that is a much steeper learning curve. Buuutttt... I was under the impression MWO was supposed to be "the thinking man's shooter." Amirite?

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 08 June 2016 - 08:29 AM.