78 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 June 2016 - 08:32 AM, said:

I know how you feel about stomping around the public queue in this thing, but do you really think it is dominant at the competitive level?

Oh, it would murder them fine...in it's niche.

It just so happens it does have downsides against range and poking ones.


Which is why the mech itself needs a touch, quirk wise, and not specific weapons. Gauss peep doesn't have the range or velocity issue, as badly.


I'll continue to enjoy my SupaHunch. I've started to use different builds after reaching my 1k average damage milestone, enjoying the 2600 M/s Goose and AC2s...but RNGeesus has not given me his favour as of yet. Faces breached, but jot busted

Thus mech can effectively bring DubGauss, insta PaperDoll and backup weapons at a reasonable speed, I'll go headhunting.

[Gas Guzzler]

Want to nerf the KDK-3? It's easy, start by removing the positive quirks that it doesn't really need. Better yet, take them and give them to the Dire Wolf, multiplying the agility quirks by 2.

[Big Tin Man]

Pariah Devalis, on 08 June 2016 - 08:47 AM, said:

The underhive can cry in a corner for all I care, to be quite frank. They ruined the game in the past more often than the cries of the comp crowd.

I agree. The entire point of this post is to nerf the underhive's build without harming the KDK 3 in any other situation. Paul and Russ listen to the underhive because that's where the money comes from, and that's the typical PGI employee skill level.

So would you rather see the KDK 3 get a UAC jam rate increase, or see it suffer in another way. Because the nerf is coming. If you don't agree that PGI is going to nerf the KDK 3, just say so and we'll be done here.

[Pariah Devalis]

Big Tin Man, on 08 June 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

I agree. The entire point of this post is to nerf the underhive's build without harming the KDK 3 in any other situation. Paul and Russ listen to the underhive because that's where the money comes from, and that's the typical PGI employee skill level.

So would you rather see the KDK 3 get a UAC jam rate increase, or see it suffer in another way. Because the nerf is coming. If you don't agree that PGI is going to nerf the KDK 3, just say so and we'll be done here.

I'd rather they strip the mobility quirks. The KDK-3 offers something *unique in the entire Clan lineup: effective Dakka boating. Really, and truly, dakka boating. Impacting its ability to do the one thing it is unique at is just an awful idea. It doesn't need some of the quirks it has to do that, however.

*until the Gyr comes out. Then we will have effective dakka platforms for both the assault and heavy slots.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 08 June 2016 - 08:58 AM.

[Big Tin Man]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 June 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

Want to nerf the KDK-3? It's easy, start by removing the positive quirks that it doesn't really need. Better yet, take them and give them to the Dire Wolf, multiplying the agility quirks by 2.

I disagree that the KDK-3 doesn't need the positive structure quirks, because of the risk of losing large ballistics due to crits/ammo explosions. Completely agree that the DWF needs significant help, it got hit by the nerf bat hard.

[Mole]

Big Tin Man, on 08 June 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

Because the nerf is coming. If you don't agree that PGI is going to nerf the KDK 3, just say so and we'll be done here.

I don't think the KDK-3 is really that OP. But I agree, enough people are whining about it that it's gonna get the nerfhammer eventually. But PGI doesn't do things sensibly. It's gonna get nuked. I mean just completely nuked. PGI is gonna ruin it for everybody. Hell, they might even go so far as to not simply nerf the offending variant but apply a shotgun solution to a sniper rifle problem and slap the entire CHASSIS with a blanket nerf. God I hope that doesn't happen. I didn't like my KDK-3, I like my KDK-2. Please don't nerf my KDK-2.

[Bishop Steiner]

Sjorpha, on 08 June 2016 - 07:13 AM, said:

The problem with that is that the gauss ppc and gaussvomit builds on the 3 are just as powerful as the dakka.

apparently more so, at least in FW and Tourney Play.

[Mystere]

Big Tin Man, on 08 June 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

The underhive is crying about UAC10's. Top tier says it's fine because it's PPC/Gauss. So tweak the UAC's and leave it a good mech. Nerfing anything else would be uncivilized.

And as such make the UACs worse -- and potentially much worse due to the fact it's PGI we are talking about -- for the players who like them?

That is mind-numbing.

Pariah Devalis, on 08 June 2016 - 08:47 AM, said:

The underhive can cry in a corner for all I care, to be quite frank. They ruined the game in the past more often than the cries of the comp crowd. That said, self serving comp teams have worked to ruin balance by maintaining a status quo with bad states of balance before, too. Underperformers need to learn how to play the game properly before they can have the perspective necessary to appropriately critique the game's facets. Unless you know, understand, and do, you will never be in a position to accurately assess the situation.

It would be like a school teacher who did 15 minutes of research online claiming Vaccinations are evil. Despite the professionals and scientists who know what they are doing stating the exact opposite. With overwhelming proof.

Also, as I said, if UAC10 boating isn't the top solution in comp, THAN THERE IS CLEARLY A REASON FOR IT. Player skill leads to learning counters. You are not entitled to simplifying the game at the expense of other players' enjoyment. Especially when there is a reason it is already being passed on by the top tier.

There is a reason for that. Once you learn the reason for it, you learn how to counter it, the bogey man goes away. Personal skill increases. That should be its own reward.

Thinking is hard. Whining on the forums is much much easier.

[Roughneck Cobra]

Stupidest call for a Quirk change yet.

And Ive seen some dumb people here with mental issues.

[Gas Guzzler]

Big Tin Man, on 08 June 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

I disagree that the KDK-3 doesn't need the positive structure quirks, because of the risk of losing large ballistics due to crits/ammo explosions. Completely agree that the DWF needs significant help, it got hit by the nerf bat hard.

Agreed, lets start with the mobility quirks then.

[Pariah Devalis]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 June 2016 - 09:09 AM, said:

Agreed, lets start with the mobility quirks then.

I mean, +10 structure isn't gonna save your ***, either way. Realistically speaking. I treat it as a non-quirk, personally. However, it does have a lot of ease in putting those guns on target. Making it a little less mobile won't make the guns any less lethal but it would make it harder to keep a track on a target.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 08 June 2016 - 09:11 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Pariah Devalis, on 08 June 2016 - 09:11 AM, said:

I mean, +10 structure isn't gonna save your ***, either way. Realistically speaking. I treat it as a non-quirk, personally. However, it does have a lot of ease in putting those guns on target. Making it a little less mobile won't make the guns any less lethal but it would make it harder to keep a track on a target.

Eh, I have stayed alive with a cherry red CT... probably would have been dead without that. I think the CT hitbox fix will be more of a game changer.

[Pariah Devalis]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 June 2016 - 09:12 AM, said:

Eh, I have stayed alive with a cherry red CT... probably would have been dead without that. I think the CT hitbox fix will be more of a game changer.

That, and indirectly the scale change. That shouldn't impact the KDK, but it should impact the survivability of its targets, Smaller targets roll damage easier. Perfect for anti-dakkaspam.

[Bishop Steiner]

Pariah Devalis, on 08 June 2016 - 09:11 AM, said:

I mean, +10 structure isn't gonna save your ***, either way. Realistically speaking. I treat it as a non-quirk, personally. However, it does have a lot of ease in putting those guns on target. Making it a little less mobile won't make the guns any less lethal but it would make it harder to keep a track on a target.

it's what they did to rein in the DWF. Well, overdid, in it's case.

[Pariah Devalis]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 June 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

it's what they did to rein in the DWF. Well, overdid, in it's case.

True. But unlike the DWF, it has the ability to torso twist and socket up to an XL400 to compensate somewhat. While a little stifling, the old AS7 back in the day with a 350 wasn't unbearable to pilot.

[Big Tin Man]

Pariah Devalis, on 08 June 2016 - 08:56 AM, said:

I'd rather they strip the mobility quirks. The KDK-3 offers something *unique in the entire Clan lineup: effective Dakka boating. Really, and truly, dakka boating. Impacting its ability to do the one thing it is unique at is just an awful idea. It doesn't need some of the quirks it has to do that, however.

*until the Gyr comes out. Then we will have effective dakka platforms for both the assault and heavy slots.

Reducing twisting mobility when solid face time is necessary for the UAC DPS to work isn't going to have that much of an impact for the underhive that walks only in straight lines unless they do it to DWF levels and kill the chassis.

You're right that the rescale will make many targets harder to hit and focus damage though.

[Dirus Nigh]

From looking at the Kodiak's modeled weapon mounts, and experience with very high mounted weapons, I think this Kodiak only needs one change. Replace the additional ballistic hard points below the primary ballistic points. That is it. The primary points are high enough. Also because the hard points are in the torso the Kodiak can use the arms to shield them from damage. To compare the Jager does have high ballistic points but they are in the arms. They cannot be shielded and are easy to take off. In addition to the easy to hit side torso from all angles.

After fighting kodiaks that is the only change I think worth considering. Maybe mobility changes. I do not know how agile, or sluggish, the mech actually is. Which makes that a very thin maybe.

[Bishop Steiner]

Pariah Devalis, on 08 June 2016 - 09:17 AM, said:

True. But unlike the DWF, it has the ability to torso twist and socket up to an XL400 to compensate somewhat. While a little stifling, the old AS7 back in the day with a 350 wasn't unbearable to pilot.

Like I said.. do what "needs" doing to the KDK3.

My issue is that after that is nerfed, and the SB rises to the top, then what will they expect nerfed on it? And the 4, etc.......

Because the constant QQ to nerf whatever touches someone's paperdoll never ends, but the drive to actually try to gitgud, well that is just too much work for most of our special snowflakes.

[Bishop Steiner]

Big Tin Man, on 08 June 2016 - 09:18 AM, said:

Reducing twisting mobility when solid face time is necessary for the UAC DPS to work isn't going to have that much of an impact for the underhive that walks only in straight lines unless they do it to DWF levels and kill the chassis.

You're right that the rescale will make many targets harder to hit and focus damage though.

Look... you can only do what you can do. As for the underhive staring at and facing tanking KDK3s? There's no (legal) cure for stupid. If they aren't dying to that, it'll be from standing in the open and gawking at LRMs. Or something other form of demonstrable (and preventable) stupidity.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 08 June 2016 - 09:23 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 June 2016 - 09:19 AM, said:

Like I said.. do what "needs" doing to the KDK3.

My issue is that after that is nerfed, and the SB rises to the top, then what will they expect nerfed on it? And the 4, etc.......

Because the constant QQ to nerf whatever touches someone's paperdoll never ends, but the drive to actually try to gitgud, well that is just too much work for most of our special snowflakes.

That is true, but the SB is a brawler, those rarely get as much flak because the disorder of public queue isn't always conducive to brawling.

Bishop Steiner, on 08 June 2016 - 09:23 AM, said:

Look... you can only do what you can do. As for the underhive staring at and facing tanking KDK3s? There's no (legal) cure for stupid. If they aren't dying to that, it'll be from standing in the open and gawking at LRMs. Or something other form of demonstrable stupidity.

Gee Bishop you are starting to sound like an elitist comp player.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 08 June 2016 - 09:24 AM.