125 replies to this topic

[Ghogiel]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 June 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

If you think it takes 3 weeks for you to have everything you need in this game, then you are out of touch with how long it takes new players to get the equipment they need (and mostly the stuff they need unlocked). I also don't really care about WoT because the structure in those games is a bit incomparable (tiers being the biggest). With the way this game is balanced is shares more in common with MOBAs than it does WoT with its tiers.

imo WoT and all the rest are the closest F2Ps to MWO, especially in terms of pricing.

It does however take a bit longer than 3 weeks to get all the GXP to get enough weapon, consumable and mech modules unlocked to have a fully decked mech. Certainly now since faction hopping on a weekly basis is pretty much dead and can't get all that many GXP and cbill lumps from FP.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Ghogiel, on 13 June 2016 - 08:43 AM, said:

imo WoT and all the rest are the closest F2Ps to MWO, especially in terms of pricing.

I don't know that it is a good thing they are the closest imo.

Ghogiel, on 13 June 2016 - 08:43 AM, said:

It does however take a bit longer than 3 weeks to get all the GXP to get enough weapon, consumable and mech modules unlocked to have a fully decked mech.

This is probably the biggest grind, since it was originally sold to us as "endgame" content.

[Jetfire]

Johnny Z, on 13 June 2016 - 06:55 AM, said:

There are free to play and pay to play games that take a year to get a single character in top form for pvp.

This game may have problems but the grind is so far away from being a problem. Playing the same amount as the games it takes a yea to get into top form it takes 3 weeks for this game.

On top of this many many online games add an expansion pack which renders every item in the game obsolete and players can look forward to yet another grind. AND on top of this the players get handed what the next "best" equipment is if they like the way it looks or not etc.

MechWarrior Online is content and feature starved. Grind is lowest anywhere.

I mean cash pricing in general. Paint pricing for example is crazy. MC price for mechs is insane. $10 should buy you at least 3 standard variants of any mech. Atlai are what, $20 a piece? CBill pricing and grind is fine but as a F2P you do actually want people to pay. The game is perfectly playable if you stick to CBill content but for most people the asking price is too high to buy the cosmetic content or mechs outside of sales.

[Felbombling]

Jetfire, on 13 June 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

I mean cash pricing in general. Paint pricing for example is crazy. MC price for mechs is insane. $10 should buy you at least 3 standard variants of any mech. Atlai are what, $20 a piece? CBill pricing and grind is fine but as a F2P you do actually want people to pay. The game is perfectly playable if you stick to CBill content but for most people the asking price is too high to buy the cosmetic content or mechs outside of sales.

Pricing as compared to what game, though? Your suggestion that, "$10.00 should buy you at least 3 standard variants of any Mech." stands out for me. You could use the three to Master the chassis, then strip and sell off two of them as no longer needed. What games are you using as the measuring stick for how MechWarrior: Online pricing should be based?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

StaggerCheck, on 13 June 2016 - 09:49 AM, said:

Pricing as compared to what game, though? Your suggestion that, "$10.00 should buy you at least 3 standard variants of any Mech." stands out for me. You could use the three to Master the chassis, then strip and sell off two of them as no longer needed. What games are you using as the measuring stick for how MechWarrior: Online pricing should be based?

Does it need a direct comparison? It is just a feeling of what most people would be willing to pay for these mechs. The problem with this game is the c-bill to mc comparison has been terrible for those that are available for c-bills. I mean a single whale is around $30 per variant, which insane (and the Kodiak will be worse, luckily the package is still available). The packs are at least more reasonable than their MC costs for c-bill variants.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 13 June 2016 - 10:01 AM.

[Felbombling]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 June 2016 - 09:59 AM, said:

Does it need a direct comparison? It is just a feeling of what most people would be willing to pay for these mechs. The problem with this game is the c-bill to mc comparison has been terrible for those that are available for c-bills. I mean a single whale is around $30 per variant, which insane (and the Kodiak will be worse, luckily the package is still available). The packs are at least more reasonable than their MC costs for c-bill variants.

Ok, if I get the issue correctly for the people who feel that an Atlas, for example, is too expensive at $30.00 per, the complaint is really the $30.00 x 3 = $90.00 to master the chassis. This math ignoring the fact that the player will accumulate C-Bills normally as they play, which could otherwise be used to buy one or two of those Mechs to master the chassis, anyway.

Edited by StaggerCheck, 13 June 2016 - 10:12 AM.

[MrJeffers]

Ghogiel, on 13 June 2016 - 08:43 AM, said:

imo WoT and all the rest are the closest F2Ps to MWO, especially in terms of pricing.

It does however take a bit longer than 3 weeks to get all the GXP to get enough weapon, consumable and mech modules unlocked to have a fully decked mech. Certainly now since faction hopping on a weekly basis is pretty much dead and can't get all that many GXP and cbill lumps from FP.

True, but you only need to do the GXP unlocks once, not for every chassis. Unlike the other games where you have to XP up the crew on every platform, or retrain them as you move them to different vehicles.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

StaggerCheck, on 13 June 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

This math ignoring the fact that the player will accumulate C-Bills normally as they play, which could otherwise be used to buy two or three of those Mechs to master the chassis, anyway.

Your ignoring the point, the point of having mechs available for C-Bills is for those who want to ignore the grind, with outrageous pricing, that really isn't an option unless you are some rare breed of whale. That's the whole point of having mechs available for both c-bills and MC. The problem that because of pricing, just dealing with the grind and getting premium is easily the better option than spending MC on that mech.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 13 June 2016 - 10:11 AM.

[Felbombling]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 June 2016 - 10:10 AM, said:

The problem that because of pricing, just dealing with the grind and getting premium is easily the better option than spending MC on that mech.

Ok... hypothetically, let's lower the price of the Atlas from $30.00 to $10.00. Now what happens with all the C-Bills I earn while playing these reasonably priced Assault Mechs? Assuming I am a good player, and PGI keeps the C-Bill earnings as current... what is my incentive to give PGI another dime moving forward, given that the company turned a $90.00 investment into a $10.00-$30.00 investment? I'd have to assume that the in-game prices for the Mechs would also fall, so everything is much easier to attain. How does PGI stay afloat... by attracting 3x more players willing to spend?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

StaggerCheck, on 13 June 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

Ok... hypothetically, let's lower the price of the Atlas from $30.00 to $10.00. Now what happens with all the C-Bills I earn while playing these reasonably priced Assault Mechs?

Modules, more engines, hell if you like the mech, you may even buy a second one that way if you have two builds, you don't have to rebuild every time you want to switch. After all that was the whole reason they didn't allow people to save builds in the first place, they wanted to incentivize you to buy multiple copies of the mech to do that. I'm a collector/whale and I have yet to break 100 mil c-bills because of all the engines/modules/variants I have been buying.

StaggerCheck, on 13 June 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

How does PGI stay afloat... by attracting 3x more players willing to spend?

Ideally yes, because the new player experience is still crap in this game, even if it is waves better than it used to be. You are also assuming that it requires 3x the player base (or maybe I just assumed you were implying that) to come out equal, which is not the case.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 13 June 2016 - 10:30 AM.

[Davers]

I am not really following you OP. You played for the equivalent of 83 straight days in Warframe and got everything, but now you can't devote time to playing MWO on a weekend and that is somehow a problem? If you played for 83 straight days you will have far more mechs than you ever need or a complete set of Tier 1 mechs with all their modules easily.

[Felbombling]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 June 2016 - 10:29 AM, said:

I'm a collector/whale and I have yet to break 100 mil c-bills because of all the engines/modules/variants I have been buying.

Alright, Quick, but doesn't the sheer amount of C-Bills you're sitting on exclude you as a paying customer at this point? I mean, if you wanted to try out the Hunchback line, you could just buy them with your C-Bill stash.

You know what... nvm... my head hurts at this point. I'm off to play some War Thunder. I'm trying to spade my Japanese A7M2, and the grind is brutal.

Edited by StaggerCheck, 13 June 2016 - 10:46 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

StaggerCheck, on 13 June 2016 - 10:45 AM, said:

Alright, Quick, but doesn't the sheer amount of C-Bills you're sitting on exclude you as a paying customer at this point? I mean, if you wanted to try out the Hunchback line, you could just buy them with your C-Bill stash.

I'm not sitting on a sheer amount of C-Bills, I'm sitting around 15 mil right now, which is pretty much still space poor. I think I may have worded that weird.

I have never had 100 mil c-bills at once, I think the most I've had laying around is 30 mil. Keep in mind I have also spent a boat load and have almost all mechs and still don't have a fortune just laying around, which is absurd imo. As much money as I've spent, I should have accumulated as much as I have on the tourney server right now.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 13 June 2016 - 10:51 AM.

[Fut]

DjPush, on 11 June 2016 - 08:26 PM, said:

Bwahaha! WHAT ELSE ARE YOU GOING TO DO!? If this game didn't have the grind... There would be no reason to play..

Essentially true. What more is there to MWO than "The Grind"? The gameplay is the exact same at all times.
The Grind feels like a chore when a person wants a new toy, but when they get that shiny new toy suddenly the grind is enjoyable?

I've never understood this mindset, complaining about the grind.

[Ghogiel]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 June 2016 - 09:03 AM, said:

I don't know that it is a good thing they are the closest imo.

In my mind it's not a good thing.

I dislike all those tiered match maker style F2P games. Just knowing you can amount to fodder for higher tiered assets is not a type of PvP I am interested in... and I play a good amount of light mechs that aren't oxides in MWO, so it's not like I don't mind being the under dog often.

[mailin]

you do realize you can get 3 days of premium time then, right?

[Red Shrike]

I would use my prem time if I could activate it 24 hours at a time, instead I have to activate it 30 days at a time.
And this game has not yet reached the point where I can put 30 days' worth of gaming into it without hating myself for it.

[Deathlike]

Bud Crue, on 13 June 2016 - 07:51 AM, said:

Certainly no debate there. I just don't think "the grind" is that bad.

It's bad, but it depends a lot on where you start.

For a Medium Mech, getting the engines is actually affordable (unless you're buying an XL engine, in which case, it's virtually the cost of the Medium Mech itself, unless you're a Stormcrow or some Clan Omnimech).

In order to have your mechs even remotely on par with everyone else, you do have to buy 2 other variants. However, some people don't like the idea of being locked to one specific chassis... which muddles things further. There's also that the other variants can be inferior or not as effective (there are plenty of chassis that fall into this category, like the Vindicator-1X) as the optimal variant.


So, if you even figure out the cluster**** that is "picking the right mech" (and that assumes you have a clue, which most new players WILL NOT HAVE), then it's about liking what you're playing, and not be total cannon fodder while moving up the chains. Most people will overcommit to the most expensive mechs though (Dire Wolf or Timberwolf, or any Light - XL engines eat up plenty of C-bills).




In essence.. assuming you have the patience to grind while sucking, then the grind isn't bad. The C-bills to grind to get to where you need to go... that takes a whole of time, patience, and it takes realistically a month plus (assuming you dedicate like 2 hours a day or 14 hours per week) just trying to gain the C-bills to have a staple of mechs... and that's before you hit the mechlab wall... and diving into CW will make you instant cannon fodder of pain.


People don't really think about how the structure of the New Player Experience really hurts just finding a new player in the first place and assume it'll just work itself out... that's just not the case.

[The Lobsters]

Going for leveling a Timberwolf early on can take the fun out of any grind. I made the mistake for getting a clan omnimech first, a stormcrow, and really lost the love by my second 'crow. For the CBills I spent I could have leveled three upgraded hunchbacks and had a selection of engines and stuff.
I gave up on my first timberwolf, sold it and went ebon jag. I still don't see what the tbr hype is about.

[Corrado]

Erufen, on 11 June 2016 - 08:25 PM, said:

Not quite. Say for example I want to purchase a new mech and outfit it. The cost of it will be 8,000,000 credits. To raise said amount, at an average of 150,000 credits per match, you'd need roughly 54 matches.

Each match takes about 8 minutes. So that means that, to raise 8,000,000 credits, you'd need to invest 432 minutes, or about 7 hours.

The grind time is too high.

grind time is too high? mechs have horizontal progression. means you grind 7 hours more or less for any mech. there aren't mechs trees you need to grind to unlock the toptier.

Instead in games like WoT, you need 750ish battles to climb up a tank tree and unlock the tier10 one, going thru other 9 tanks, buying em, upgrading em, fitting em just to play decently and do 1000-1500 average xp per game.

then, with repair and refill mechanics you realize you can barely keep running a tier10 tank without losing credits, with somewhat good games.

grind in MWO is extremely light and bearable.

Edited by Corrado, 15 June 2016 - 02:51 PM.