819 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

dervishx5, on 09 August 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

Well I'll take your word for it. I haven't played the game since a month before the tournament started. Back when I was playing PPC/Gauss was bad for brawling, as you well know.

Still, the only teams left playing in that sham of a tournament are the super hardcore ones that could pretty much kill anyone with any weapon. They have superhuman levels of coordination that the vast majority of the competitive playerbase does not. That's not the best way to judge how something will work. NS could never ape SJR nor EMP no matter how many times we tried, as you also know.

How is it not the best way to judge how something would work? They use the same weapons against each other.

[SmithMPBT]

Gas Guzzler, on 09 August 2016 - 09:17 AM, said:

That's a pretty terrible, useless build. One that is already stopped by Ghost Heat 1.

It can Alpha without blowing up, overheats for about 6 seconds. Then its good for another 1 shot kill.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

SmithMPBT, on 09 August 2016 - 09:47 AM, said:

It can Alpha without blowing up, overheats for about 6 seconds. Then its good for another 1 shot kill.

Except it is 100 tons that moves a whopping 53kph and has an optimal range of 300m, it is a joke build at best.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 09 August 2016 - 09:49 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Gas Guzzler, on 09 August 2016 - 09:41 AM, said:

How is it not the best way to judge how something would work? They use the same weapons against each other.

Its not a good way, even a little bit, because this isn't about .0001% of matches between two teams that are best friends, its about all the matches in the game. Lets get real here.

[SmithMPBT]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 August 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

Except it is 100 tons that moves a whopping 53kph and has an optimal range of 300m, it is a joke build at best.

I'd imagine it works pretty good at the gate in Faction Warfare.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

SmithMPBT, on 09 August 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

I'd imagine it works pretty good at the gate in Faction Warfare.

Let's not use a broken game mode as an example of how a mech could potentially be good (and I assure you it isn't, since you are trading a 100 mech for at best another 100 ton mech.

[Gas Guzzler]

SmithMPBT, on 09 August 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

I'd imagine it works pretty good at the gate in Faction Warfare.

Yeah, works pretty well at giving me free damage after it sits there for 6 seconds after its first shot. Just kidding, I don't play Faction Warfare, so it would give some other hypothetical player the free damage.

[Appogee]

It sounds like a great idea to me... much more logical/plausible than ghost heat ever was.

The COD crowd won't like it because it will require a bit more thought than the "point-click-boom" they're used to.

But hey, the game needs a shakeup and refresh. I'm looking forward to it.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Appogee, on 09 August 2016 - 10:03 AM, said:

The COD crowd won't like it

Who exactly is this CoD crowd you refer to, I see no one here saying that this game should be more like CoD and it seems awfully presumptive to think that just because someone thinks that alpha strikes should be a thing must want this game to be CoD or even likes CoD to begin with....

[Gas Guzzler]

Appogee, on 09 August 2016 - 10:03 AM, said:

The COD crowd won't like it because it will require a bit more thought than the "point-click-boom" they're used to.

There is no COD crowd here. Just people who want more than a zerg rush DPS race out of this game.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

Shooting all their weapons in the novels is always a danger. Either the pilot roasting or the machine damaging vital components leaving you a sitting duck. Having Pilot HP would be cool. Head shots bashing you around. Always shutting down giving you increasing effects that will make you pass out. Although your mech is cooling down after Redlining, the cockpit heat should dissipate slower to discourage another alpha. That may be better to implement than an entirely new heat draw system.

Edited by Mechwarrior1441491, 09 August 2016 - 10:08 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Mechwarrior1441491, on 09 August 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

Shooting all their weapons in the novel is always a danger. Either the pilot roasting or the machine damaging vital components leaving you a sitting duck. Having Pilot HP would be cool. Head shots bashing you around. Always shutting down giving you increasing effects that will make you pass out. Although your mech is cooling down after Redlining, the cockpit heat should dissipate slower to discourage another alpha.

Phelan Ward's Executioner had no problem firing 3 cLPLs and 4 cERMLs in Grave Covenant, not that what happens in the books should have ANY bearing whatsoever in MechWarrior games (where by the way, alpha strikes have always been in thing)

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 09 August 2016 - 10:09 AM.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

No reason why inspiration can't be taken from book material. "Never" is a pretty strong statement considering the entire IP is derived from books, novels and board games.

IS mechs are more durable, but less heat efficient and less pilot safety. Clan mechs less durable, but more efficient with heat and better pilot protection. This works with the current quirk system.

Edited by Mechwarrior1441491, 09 August 2016 - 10:13 AM.

[dervishx5]

Gas Guzzler, on 09 August 2016 - 09:41 AM, said:

How is it not the best way to judge how something would work? They use the same weapons against each other.

NS is (or was) A rated. I think we can all agree with that. But you'll notice the A rated teams often used builds and tactics that the S rated (S stands for special) teams COULD use, but often didn't. S rated teams are capable of standing in the open and mass sniping. We, like many others, were never able to achieve that. Instead we focused on our strengths and used rush tactics instead. Most teams did. Thus what's good for the best isn't necessarily good for the rest.

[Gas Guzzler]

dervishx5, on 09 August 2016 - 10:27 AM, said:

NS is (or was) A rated. I think we can all agree with that. But you'll notice the A rated teams often used builds and tactics that the S rated (S stands for special) teams COULD use, but often didn't. S rated teams are capable of standing in the open and mass sniping. We, like many others, were never able to achieve that. Instead we focused on our strengths and used rush tactics instead. Most teams did. Thus what's good for the best isn't necessarily good for the rest.

That's an oversimplification regarding what we could and could not pull off, but requires a much deeper discussion that doesn't belong in the Energy Draw thread, or in mwo forums at all.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

dervishx5, on 09 August 2016 - 10:27 AM, said:

NS is (or was) A rated. I think we can all agree with that. But you'll notice the A rated teams often used builds and tactics that the S rated (S stands for special) teams COULD use, but often didn't. S rated teams are capable of standing in the open and mass sniping. We, like many others, were never able to achieve that. Instead we focused on our strengths and used rush tactics instead. Most teams did. Thus what's good for the best isn't necessarily good for the rest.

It's correct. When up against a team drastically better than you, it is better to close fast and start brawling, dog fighting, messing up their plans and tactics.

[Hotthedd]

Chuck Jager, on 09 August 2016 - 07:34 AM, said:

You will still be able to alpha any build, but in a similar way to how those alphas apply to any weapon with GH.

If you build poorly, alpha can kill you. Builds will just need to changed. Also if everybody else's damage output is limited too, this means you will also take less damage per poke. SO 2 pokes at 500 m in .5 secs will probably output/receive the same damage as the current 1 poke.

We do not have dice and randomized hit locations and I have a feeling that more people would rage implementing RNG damage.

We broke from strict BT the second you introduce a pvp online game. Every game has to deal with how online PVP use smaller maps and the need to control certain factors to help balance a random team of people and their various goals (not even talking about their ingame skills).

I understand the fundamentals of the mechanic. As I said, solutions other than the BT universe, or even theoretical real physics limitations, are not my preference.

At what point did I mention RNG or random hit locations? You must have confused my post with someone else's.

We "broke" from strict BT rules to be able to play a FPS, sure. But that does not mean that finding solutions contrary to the BT universe is necessarily the best option. Alpha Strikes in BT were never meant to be precise. Having them be so in MW:O is a lazy game mechanic that has caused many more problems that it could ever have hoped to solve.

[dervishx5]

Gas Guzzler, on 09 August 2016 - 10:30 AM, said:

That's an oversimplification regarding what we could and could not pull off, but requires a much deeper discussion that doesn't belong in the Energy Draw thread, or in mwo forums at all.

Uh oh, am I going to fall down some stairs again?

[Hotthedd]

Mystere, on 09 August 2016 - 07:42 AM, said:

Just a slight correction. From what I gather, repeated alpha strikes are definitely not part of the BT universe. They were a method of last resort, not the main firing pattern.

Yes, you are absolutely correct.

I was just underscoring that taking them out of the game altogether, although it would fix the TTK problem, is also just as much against the BT universe.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

I would be very surprised if the barely functional targeting computers in some mechs and even in some newer mechs could track and compute the amount of same and different weapons the mechs in this game sport.

Alpha was always dangerous in literature. They always seemed to be computing targeting data one weapon at a time, with missiles being your panic fire weapon.