819 replies to this topic

[AnTi90d]

So, I saw that this was just Tweeted:

Russ Bullock said:

Btw I will discuss at my next town hall/pod cast that we overcame a technical hurdle in the design of the "Energy Draw" system

aka the replacement for Heat Scale which should work much better for limiting alphas -this should give more value to mechs with more variety

..all the while I haven't heard a single positive thing about the incoming power draw mechanic from any player.. only negative.

So, does this community really want an Energy Draw system? Do you guys think it would be good for this game to have a system that prevents players from firing all of their weapons due to some invisible mechanic that has never existed in all of Battletech / Mechwarrior?

I mean, Novas are historically known as a mech that carries more weapons that it can keep firing, but that's why alpha-strikes exist.. and Novas shutdown after they alpha-strike.

Now, we're going to have another invisible system that surely won't be explained one iota in-game that will alienate and frustrate new players and likely cause existing players to just say, "screw this, they changed the game too much and now it isn't something that I want to keep playing. All the mechs in my garage have been ruined."

Personally, I'd rather they got off of their sidetracked asses and rolled FP back to phase 2. They've already rolled out feature after feature that the playerbase didn't want, didn't ask for and didn't like.. and that has done possibly irreparable damage to the FP participation numbers.

This new feature sounds like a horrible pain in the *** and a generally terrible idea.. in a long line of pains in the asses and terrible ideas.

[Idealsuspect]

It doesnt matter what we want.
Like russ said only PGI know what is good for MWO.

[White Bear 84]

Several well known players have been selling the idea of energy draw in one form or another. It has been a widely discussed topic.. ..it will deal with boating and TTK in a much more efficient and better way than 'ghost heat'.

[Mawai]

To be honest, I haven't seen enough detail on how the energy draw system would work in order to tell whether it will be any better, worse or just different from Ghost heat.

Personally, I am not stuck on any particular set of values or specific game mechanics for any weapons. I'd like to see a slightly longer overall time to kill along with a good balance between weapon choices across most mechs. I'd like to see a situation where both boating and mixed builds are viable, where lasers, ballistics, and missiles can all contribute with sufficiently different mechanics that they all feel different but one doesn't offer a huge advantage over the other.

Getting the balance even approximately "right" is a huge challenge in and of itself.

Anyway, I have no objections to an energy draw system if it is relatively easy to understand for new players, allows greater build flexibility while limiting repeated large alpha strikes in a convincing and logical way.

[Chimera_]

I'm going to wait to form an opinion until there's actually enough information to form an opinion on.

[Xetelian]

I don't think this is a good way to go


They pushed us into the Laser meta by nerfing Gauss, ACs and PPCs all the PPFLD meta and jump sniping.

Now they want to push us away from Laser vomit which will just encourage more PPFLD options

Where people used to carry 5 cMPL they'll be packing a UAC20 and 3 erML on their stormcrows
Where stalkers used to carry 6 LL they'll switch to a couple LPL and SRMs/LRMs

I can see the limit on energy and alpha going a lot of different directions but I honestly don't know how it'll work out

Without knowing really what is planned I can tell you that the meta will shift and people will take advantage any way they can with the new meta and what can be carried.




I'm scared. I'm really worried.

I don't want high alphas and low TTK forever. I am all for doubling armor again or adding defensive quirks but I worry about how this will effect my favorite lights and assaults.

Ghost heat was already a tragedy for stock builds on the WHK and AWS so I can't imagine what this power draw is going to help.




I pray to the MWO/PGI gods to give us the answer to the problems we face without convoluted mechanics and restrictions.

[Mcgral18]

Depends on how Ghost Heat Mk2 is implemented

[Wintersdark]

Chimera11, on 13 June 2016 - 06:39 PM, said:

I'm going to wait to form an opinion until there's actually enough information to form an opinion on.

Gross.

Edited by Wintersdark, 13 June 2016 - 07:03 PM.

[DjPush]

Yes... Been waiting for years.

[Wintersdark]

Seriously, though, Ghost Heat is terrible.

Theres no point in going all ranty about something you know absolutely nothing about. Lets all try to put on our big boy pants and wait until we have some information, THEN we can bust out the torches and pitchforks if necessary.


One thing that's for sure. Ghost heat is already confusing, only partially effective and easily worked around IF you understand it, and not really explained anywhere either.

It would actually be difficult to be worse than Ghost Heat. So... I think it's decidedly premature to complain about the new system we know nothing about being confusing and hard to understand. That's the current system.

[TheArisen]

Some want it, some don't.

I'd be willing to test in on a test server. I'm still reserved but I'd test it.

[Mystere]

Gee, we don't have any information yet and already:





<vsmh>

[BumbleBee]

I really wish they would just reduce the heat cap a bit, and stop heatsinks adding extra to the cap.

[InspectorG]

There is at least one simpler fix than adding a whole additional mechanic.

Limit Weapon Group sizes and put a 1 second cooldown between them.

Big Alpha Warrior Online?

Fixed.

Weapon Boating Online?

Fixed.

Hardpoint Inflation Online?

Fixed.

TTK too Low Online?

Fixed.

Think about it, you can turn Weapon Groups into the equivalent to Boxing combinations as well.

[DaZur]

Community wants "something" other than ghost heat... While I doubt you'll get any consensus, power draw is one way to address it.

Whether it'll hold up to scrutiny obviously we'll need to wait.

[WarZ]

I 100% support the concept of energy draw. Hopefully the mechanic works well.

[Lostdragon]

I have little confidence the new system will make sense or work well. I don't understand why PGI doesn't at least TRY to work with what they have already by adjusting weapon heat, heat cap and dissipation to see if the desired results can be achieved without adding a new mechanic.

[Impyrium]

The community will always, always find a way to hate something. Doesn't matter how good or bad it is, you will always end up with criticism. A player doesn't like having power taken away from them- any mechanic or change that is introduced that subtracts will always be met with anger.

Problem as a game designer is, sometimes you need to do that, regardless of what a player wants.

We need to wait to hear more about what this new mechanic really entails, then you can all go batshit crazy over it and claim the game is about to collapse again. Or reasonably discuss it. Whichever really.

[Cementi]

I would prefer a proper heat scale with various penalties the hotter you get however power draw if done correctly could work as well. *shrug* just not enough info to say one way or the other. However alot of people seem to think that it will only affect energy weapons. I think that for it to be effective it needs to work across all weapon types so that it does not simply shift the meta to another weapon system. I personally can think of a number of ways that it can work. That is my opinion though.

However something needs to be done and I am glad that they are planning to tell us a bit about it as the silent treatment was making me worry. What I hope is that regardless of what they do with it they follow through this time instead of crumpling at the first harsh word like they did with info tech and laser lock. No matter what they do their players are going to ***** but for the good of the game I hope they ignore the non constructive comments and move ahead with it.

Bottom line for me is I just want them to try something. If it fails that is fine. Better to have tried and failed then to have never tried at all. Then at least they can say that one way does not work and move on to the next.

[Andi Nagasia]

well what we know is,
1) it will be based on Alphas
2) you will get a Heat Spike once a Limit is reached/Passed,
3) it will effect all weapons Systems Energy/Missile/Ballistic,
4) it will Come with the Complete Removal of Ghost Heat,

what we can Assume but dont Know,
1) the Alpha Limit will most likely be between 30-35 Damage,
2) when the Alpha Limit is Reached Mechs will Gain Much more Heat as its Drawing more than it can Handle,
3) the Penalty Heat Generated from exceeding the Limit will be exponential,
4) it will reset like Ghost Heat at 1/2 a Second,

with this in Mind lest assume penalty Heat is something like this,

if (Alpha > 30)
.......(Z x (Z-2) {f(x) = 2^x}Heat)
(Z = (Alpha - 30)

so for each Point of Damage over 30, you start getting an increased amount of heat,
at 31-35 damage this may be negatable, but as you hit 45Damage you will get hit with massive heat,


with all this in Mind,
lets use a low heat weapon for a test,

Test(1)
5MPL fired, 30damage in 0-0.5sec, no penalty heat(20Heat Total)

Test(2)
6MPL fired, 36damage in 0-0.5sec, +6(30ish%) penalty heat(30Heat Total)

Test(3)
7MPL fired, 42damage in 0-0.5sec, +33(120ish%) penalty heat(61Heat Total)


so lets assume the Lowest Damage to Heat Weapon in MWO,
3Gauss fired, 45damagein 0-0.5sec, +6(195ish%) penalty heat(9Heat Total)

this makes Tri Gauss a Problem as you will gain abit of Heat,
not much to Stop it as a Sniper, but Enough to Stop it from using Backup weapons,
Edit- Spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 13 June 2016 - 08:02 PM.