376 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 05 August 2016 - 01:11 PM, said:

I dont use macros but what I usually do is charge the gauss then fire the ppcs. Then you have all the things done, in two clicks, still firing all the weapons at once. Unless the power draw is going to stop me from doing that, and in that case Ill just be waiting for HBS's btech game because once youre making up mechanics as you go along (or trying to inject lore driven reasons into as lore empty a game as this has become) you lose the ability to use btech or mwarrior as a title because youre making an entirely third game at that point. Might as well title it "PGI's Mechwarrior" instead of it being a "battletech game". Then again that second one's been being shaky for a few years now.

Wait, wait... you are mad about PGI removing the ability to land dual Gauss dual PPC shots to a single component using a single mouse click. And as a result, you will wait for a game that does not allow for landing dual Gauss dual PPC to a single component.

Okay. So, you only like MWO for the perfect convergence it offers. Nice.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Prosperity Park, on 05 August 2016 - 01:42 PM, said:

Wait, wait... you are mad about PGI removing the ability to land dual Gauss dual PPC shots to a single component using a single mouse click. And as a result, you will wait for a game that does not allow for landing dual Gauss dual PPC to a single component.

Okay. So, you only like MWO for the perfect convergence it offers. Nice.

I dont want MWO to be a game with artificial limits on what we can fire because what mechwarrior game prior to this one does that emulate? Should we go all TT and have ten second waits till we can fire all the weapons on our mechs?

Hell, how does it even make sense that a walking nuclear reactor should HAVE a limit to the amout of energy it produces at a time? The only place that was ever the case was the fluff books and I dont think any Battletech went by those rules unless you include the level three rules where the mech engines could explode ala Stackpole.

Battletech itself (unless the new rules do this, I dont know I havent played the new game) never even limited the amount of weapons you could fire at once through anything more than the heat it generated.

And I would have loved it if convergence had ever made it into the game, but it didnt so what are you talking about again? Id also love it if the weapons DIDNT hit all on the same pixel, as that would itself fix a lot of the issues this game HAS but as I remember in CB that idea was always shot down.

[Andi Nagasia]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 05 August 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

I dont want MWO to be a game with artificial limits on what we can fire because what mechwarrior game prior to this one does that emulate? Should we go all TT and have ten second waits till we can fire all the weapons on our mechs?

Hell, how does it even make sense that a walking nuclear reactor should HAVE a limit to the amout of energy it produces at a time? The only place that was ever the case was the fluff books and I dont think any Battletech went by those rules unless you include the level three rules where the mech engines could explode ala Stackpole.

Battletech itself (unless the new rules do this, I dont know I havent played the new game) never even limited the amount of weapons you could fire at once through anything more than the heat it generated.

And I would have loved it if convergence had ever made it into the game, but it didnt so what are you talking about again? Id also love it if the weapons DIDNT hit all on the same pixel, as that would itself fix a lot of the issues this game HAS but as I remember in CB that idea was always shot down.

this really isnt an Artificial limit, as much as it is a Feature than was needed but not added to begin with,
in the same way a ship game with Cannons may add Projectile Drop if it wasnt added with release,

also Nuclear reactors do have a limit on how much power they can produce in an instance,
in this case ACs/Missiles do Run on power, they have Mechanisms/FeedSystems that are ElectronicallyControlled,
this is where the Power Draw can come from, and it could be a Fun way to Reduce Alphas,

True, but BattleTech also never Really had this level of Customization,
and most MW games that had this level of Customization where never Truely Balanced,
also MW3 i think had an Alpha-Heat-Multiplyer if you Pressed the Alpha Button,

True Convergence may also help, but their is starch opposition to that,
as most cant agree on how it should work and how far it should go,


but back to the Topic,
a Limit on Damage Instance(lets say 3 seconds) could help hard point starved mechs,
as well as Prolong Mech Lives, i think we will see people Changing up how they play,
im hoping anyway that we will, and this can fix the problems of High Alphas,

[MechaBattler]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 03 August 2016 - 08:53 PM, said:

You realize that entire post of yours was a troll... lol I love hypocrites. Add something to the conversation troll.

It is really unfortunate but I fear that this new Power thing will only make things ten times worse on the opposite side of the spectrum.

Did you even bother to read my post? I pointed out the times PGI has done something based on feedback. I didn't say they they do everything the community says. But I'm tired of people acting like they don't listen at all to feedback.

[Mole]

MechaBattler, on 05 August 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

Did you even bother to read my post? I pointed out the times PGI has done something based on feedback. I didn't say they they do everything the community says. But I'm tired of people acting like they don't listen at all to feedback.

Nah man, he learned from the best on how to ignore good posts.

[Johnny Z]

Andi Nagasia, on 05 August 2016 - 01:17 PM, said:

True but even if its just a 3 second Timer is will still Spread Damage out more,
and for those who want to push the limit, Russ has said they are looking into making heat Penalties,
(i think the Example he gave was (Heat% > 75%) = (Mechs Max Speed -25%)(dont have the Source on hand sorry)

Damage spread not using RNG is a good thing. Sounds great.

Yet again, there are 25 one shot shooters out there already, MechWarrior/Battletech was not meant to be one of them. Many players left because of low TTK and this not being a thinking mans shooter. I don't agree with that either, but if anything TTK could be a touch longer. For many reasons.

Edited by Johnny Z, 05 August 2016 - 04:55 PM.

[AnTi90d]

Andi Nagasia, on 05 August 2016 - 03:31 PM, said:

(Power Draw).. could be a Fun way to Reduce Alphas,

I just vomited into the back of my mouth, a bit.

Nothing about this system seems fun, to me. It seems more like an anti-fun system that might chase more existing players from the game.

Battletech has a system designed to limit alphastrikes.. the heat system that's already in-game.

They could accomplish a reduction in TTK by simply lowering the heat threshold of all mechs and increasing their heat dissipation over time.. and that wouldn't really piss anyone off, as it isn't a non-canon system that they're just arbitrarily shoving into the game.

[Kangarad]

well itll change from alpha warrior to macro dps warrior. brace for dakka.

[MauttyKoray]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 June 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

dont agree, Russ has Stated this isnt Energy draw, but Power(Alpha) Draw,
making Ballistic and Missile type weapons have 0 Draw will Encurage Ballistic & SRM Boating,
AC60 and SRM72 will Rule the Game, Hands down with no Real Counter,


i think 75% would better than Half,
i wasnt asking Russ what where the Exact Numbers , but is some Weapon Systems will have reduced Draw,


Russ Stated it will be based off Total Alpha, not just Energy Alpha,


Im assuming as Russ has Stated some Weapons will have reduced Draw,
so its very Likely that Flamers and MGs will have no Draw as they have their Own Balance Mechanics,
1) Flamers having the heat over time index, and little to no Damage,
2) MGs having Low Damage and High Rate of Fire(they also have 0 Heat),

With Flamers and MGs, I think this would actually bring a resurgence of them out with the fact that they would then be usable regardless of the rest of your loadout. Fired too many lasers and would go past/already passed draw limit? Firing MGs would still contribute damage while waiting for your other close range weapons to be usable again. Or a flamer being able to contribute to keeping a mech's heat high and causing the opponent to more strictly adhere to his draw cap for the sake of not overheating faster or at all.

If Power Draw actually works out, it may breath a new life into how MWO is played. Things such as Mixed Builds being commonplace, fewer weapons being fired at once, the ability to make tactical maneuvers without the feared of being insta-popped by a death ball or half your team dying while you're still flanking. Fingers crossed that all goes well and I can't wait for the PTS.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Johnny Z, on 05 August 2016 - 04:54 PM, said:

MechWarrior/Battletech was not meant to be one of them.

if you can kill it with a head shot... I do remember a quote from one of my books "kill the meat not the mech"

[Ace Selin]

Kangarad, on 05 August 2016 - 05:52 PM, said:

well itll change from alpha warrior to macro dps warrior. brace for dakka.

im buying a macro mouse just for this .

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 05 August 2016 - 09:47 PM, said:

if you can kill it with a head shot... I do remember a quote from one of my books "kill the meat not the mech"

How many head shots do you have though in all your games played ?

Edited by Ace Selin, 06 August 2016 - 01:57 AM.

[Kangarad]

Ace Selin, on 06 August 2016 - 01:57 AM, said:

im buying a macro mouse just for this .



How many head shots do you have though in all your games played ?

how bout this one?

https://www.kickstar...aign=Friend1914

I am sure it'll have enought buttons and functions fo mechwarrior. even if you bring a realy messed up build.

[davoodoo]

30 dmg.

hbk4g

ac20 20, 2 mlas 5x2, 1 slas 3 dmg

Hbk4g cant alpha without triggering ghost heat...

mad5d cant fire its long range weaponry 2 ppc 1 lpl without triggering ghost heat...

Edited by davoodoo, 06 August 2016 - 07:13 AM.

[SpiralFace]

davoodoo, on 06 August 2016 - 07:09 AM, said:

30 dmg.

hbk4g

ac20 20, 2 mlas 5x2, 1 slas 3 dmg

Hbk4g cant alpha without triggering ghost heat...

mad5d cant fire its long range weaponry 2 ppc 1 lpl without triggering ghost heat...

Under the current system neither does a splat dog or Spat cat. (they get ghost heat past their 4th launcher.)

Does that stop them from firing all their weapons? Nope.

We know NOTHING about this system at the moment. So who's to say that those hunchbacks or mads would get crippling ghost heat by going a few points over the supposed 30 limit? Since you don't see it stopping splat-cats or splatdogs out there right now.

[East Indy]

davoodoo, on 06 August 2016 - 07:09 AM, said:

Hbk4g cant alpha without triggering ghost heat...

So? Why does every 'Mech have to be able to fire everything at once?

Besides, if it's no longer possible to fire multiple heavy weapons simultaneously, there's no need — for example — for projectile weapons to fly through the air as slowly as water balloons. That seems preferable to stacking more and more progressively nerfed weapons, then hope you hit something.

PGI can take the blame for not getting out in front of the perennial MechWarrior alpha problem, but players aren't entitled to run around no-scoping everything.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

ha that was a test.

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 07 August 2016 - 03:33 PM.

[Wintersdark]

AnTi90d, on 05 August 2016 - 05:43 PM, said:

I just vomited into the back of my mouth, a bit.

Nothing about this system seems fun, to me. It seems more like an anti-fun system that might chase more existing players from the game.

No worse than Ghost Heat, which is a tremendously difficult system for new players to grok.

Quote

Battletech has a system designed to limit alphastrikes.. the heat system that's already in-game.

Battletech also has another system designed to limit alpha strikes that's as much a part of Battletech as the heat system: Every weapon will hit a random target component. In Battletech, an alpha strike isn't every weapon firing at the same instant and with the same aim, it's just every weapon being fired within a 10 second window.

As we don't have randomized targeting and do have magical perfect convergence, the heat system does not adequately limit alpha strikes.

Quote

They could accomplish a reduction in TTK by simply lowering the heat threshold of all mechs and increasing their heat dissipation over time.. and that wouldn't really piss anyone off, as it isn't a non-canon system that they're just arbitrarily shoving into the game.

Many have requestly low cap-high dissipation, myself included. Sadly, PGI seems dead set against it for reasons that have never been made clear (as far as I can tell, the reason is "Because Paul.") I too agree this would be better than power draw.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Wintersdark, on 07 August 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

As we don't have randomized targeting and do have magical perfect convergence

Thats because the convergence system never got put in

There was a plan for it but it got scrapped so far as I ever knew, hence pinpoint damage

Wintersdark, on 07 August 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

(as far as I can tell, the reason is "Because Paul.")

This happens far too often in this game.

[Wintersdark]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 07 August 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

Thats because the convergence system never got put in

There was a plan for it but it got scrapped so far as I ever knew, hence pinpoint damage

Well, no, it WAS in - it was in when I started playing. But it was scrapped because HSR.

Quote

This happens far too often in this game.

Sadly.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Wintersdark, on 07 August 2016 - 04:05 PM, said:

Well, no, it WAS in - it was in when I started playing. But it was scrapped because HSR.

ah thats what happened, I remember there was a time in CB where dual gauss could cross before the target if you tried for a snap shot, but that only happened once or twice