138 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

MeiSooHaityu, on 14 June 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

So... Less Vindi, more Panther?

if the panther didn't have huge shoot me shoulders, and was epic fast and jumpy.... with way better hardpoint layout and possibilities. (aka all the missiles in the CT) Pretty sure those distinguish it a lot form simple retread classification.

Very fast
Very Jumpy
Compact geometry/hitboxes (again more like a slightly larger Spider)
Well spaced hardpoints on 2 models, and much heavier missile capability on the third

You'll have to excuse me if I see neither VND or PNT in it.

Stefka Kerensky, on 14 June 2016 - 11:41 AM, said:

Fine, but the Assassin rising from smoke and flames is....epic! !

well, technically, mine is doing that too.... jumpjets make a lot of smoke and flame and it's certainly rising (through the air)

[MeiSooHaityu]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 June 2016 - 11:47 AM, said:

if the panther didn't have huge shoot me shoulders, and was epic fast and jumpy.... with way better hardpoint layout and possibilities. (aka all the missiles in the CT) Pretty sure those distinguish it a lot form simple retread classification.

Very fast
Very Jumpy
Compact geometry/hitboxes (again more like a slightly larger Spider)
Well spaced hardpoints on 2 models, and much heavier missile capability on the third

You'll have to excuse me if I see neither VND or PNT in it.

I get it, I can see where the speed and velocity would be great for the guy, but I'm trying to also see how it would compare.

At 40tons, it isn't going to be Spider sized. It will probably be taller than a Cicada (also 40 tons), but narrower and thinner depth wise. It will probably be close in size to a Phoenix Hawk (45 Ton), but a bit shorter.

A similar 40 ton mech (Cicada again) does about 130~140ish with an light energy load out like 6 MLasers. If this mech carries missiles (with ammo) or 5+ JJs for instance (where most Cicadas carry none), it will eat up tonnage for a large engine. Depending on loadout, I could see it doing about 130kph (close to a maxed out Panther) but with more firepower. Maybe 140kph, but it might run a bit hot or have to sacrifice Some jumping capabilities.

I'm not trying to be negative. I would like the Assassin in the game. I'm just trying to get an idea on how it would play out.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

MeiSooHaityu, on 14 June 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

I get it, I can see where the speed and velocity would be great for the guy, but I'm trying to also see how it would compare.

At 40tons, it isn't going to be Spider sized. It will probably be taller than a Cicada (also 40 tons), but narrower and thinner depth wise. It will probably be close in size to a Phoenix Hawk (45 Ton), but a bit shorter.

A similar 40 ton mech (Cicada again) does about 130~140ish with an light energy load out like 6 MLasers. If this mech carries missiles (with ammo) or 5+ JJs for instance (where most Cicadas carry none), it will eat up tonnage for a large engine. Depending on loadout, I could see it doing about 130kph (close to a maxed out Panther) but with more firepower. Maybe 140kph, but it might run a bit hot or have to sacrifice Some jumping capabilities.

I'm not trying to be negative. I would like the Assassin in the game. I'm just trying to get an idea on how it would play out.

Think less Panther, more Jenner. If the one assassin had the 4 missiles in the torso, it should be able to pull off the Oxide loadout with JJs.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

I never was a fan of the assassin in TT. It was just so out performed by the phoenix hawk as a scoutlance leader and the jenner as a bug hunter.

[Kanil]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 14 June 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

I never was a fan of the assassin in TT. It was just so out performed by the phoenix hawk as a scoutlance leader and the jenner as a bug hunter.

Indeed. I don't understand how anyone could grow to like the comically under-everything'd Assassin.

In MWO you could probably fix most of it's flaws, but I'd rather see the Javelin. But if light 'mechs aren't a thing anymore, then I suppose it'd be better than nothing.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Kanil, on 14 June 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

Indeed. I don't understand how anyone could grow to like the comically under-everything'd Assassin.

In MWO you could probably fix most of it's flaws, but I'd rather see the Javelin. But if light 'mechs aren't a thing anymore, then I suppose it'd be better than nothing.

Valkyrie is next most likely. But it'll do the same sort of thing and have energy hard points to boot.

[Kanil]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 14 June 2016 - 12:31 PM, said:

Valkyrie is next most likely. But it'll do the same sort of thing and have energy hard points to boot.

Valky's going to have half the missiles of a Javelin, half the lasers of a Javelin-F, and (probably) a lower engine cap too. It's something, but it's not very exciting.

I'd rather have the Assassin than the Valkyrie. (... and in TT, I'd rather have a Locust than either of 'em.)

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 14 June 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

I never was a fan of the assassin in TT. It was just so out performed by the phoenix hawk as a scoutlance leader and the jenner as a bug hunter.

I wasn't a fan of a lot of mechs in TT, because a lot of them were bad, MWO isn't TT though, and having a lighter Griffin appeals greatly to me.

[Malleus011]

I'd like to see the Assassin make it into the game.

Also, the rest of the 3025 'mechs. (even the Hatchetman, Scorpion, and Goliath, as unlikely as they are)

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Kanil, on 14 June 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

Valky's going to have half the missiles of a Javelin, half the lasers of a Javelin-F, and (probably) a lower engine cap too. It's something, but it's not very exciting.

I'd rather have the Assassin than the Valkyrie. (... and in TT, I'd rather have a Locust than either of 'em.)

Yes but I LIKE the Valkyrie. I used them extensively as cheap mobile LRM dispensing platforms so I've got a soft spot in my heart for the things.

[Moldur]

I like those missile hardpoints.. and it jumps!

It would be like a hunchoxide-4sp that jumps.

[Trauglodyte]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 June 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

pretty sure I made one of these posts way back when..... but with the broken search, can't find it to necro. And yeah, I wanna campaign (mildly) for the ASN.

Difference between this and certain other "campaigns" we saw earlier this year?
1) It's timeline correct
2) I plan to keep my campaigning essentially limited to this thread
3) added art!

(Note: Not finished version)
4) Won't take dissenting opinions as personal attacks... unless, of course, they ARE personal attacks.


That said, I will admit, it was my favorite mech in MW2: Mercs, and one of my favorite of the old TT minis. I also used it a fair bit in TT. So yeah, lot's of fond memories.

That said, it's also a very compact frame design, geometry more akin to MWOs Spider than anything else, overall, that's hiighly mobile and has the potential to be about as jumpy (or not, as a battlemech) as one could ask for.

Hardpoint layout is decent, for a missile energy build (similar to GRF-2N), so I think as a low end, fast striker Medium, it could have real potential.

40 tons:
Stock Engine: 280
Max Engine: 360
Jumpjets: 7 (5 on ASN-101)
Max Armor: 274 pts

ASN-21:
Armament:
RA: 1x Medium Laser
RT: 1x LRM5, 1x LRM ammo
LT: 1x SRM2, 1x SRM ammo

Hardpoints:
RA: 2x Energy
RT: 2x Missile
LT: 2x Missile

ASN-101:
Armament:
RA: 1x Medium Laser
RT: 1x LRM5, 1x LRM ammo, 1x Small Laser (Moved from RL)
LT: 1x SRM2, 1x SRM ammo, 1x Small Laser (Moved from LL)
H: 1x Small Laser

Hardpoints:
RA: 1x Energy
RT: 1x Missile, 1x Energy
LT: 1x Missile, 1x Energy
H: 1x Energy

ASN-23:
Armament:
RA: 1x Medium Pulse Laser
RT: 1x LRM5 w/Artemis, 1x LRM ammo


Hardpoints:
RA: 3x Energy
RT: 3x Missile

for a relatively conservative harpdoint inflation. Compared to waht we see on the Viper for instance, it's positively under-armed. But I would rather be conservative than oversell it. And hey, you never know when we might get pleasantly surprised by them adding more than expected, right?

But better to keep low expectations than work up this fever dream "perfect" Idea and have it fall short.

Thoughts, doubts, opinions and arguments? Feel free to post below!

I want the Assassin but you're wrong on one thing: JJ mechs tend to lose a hard point. Since the Assassin is a 40 tonner, like the Cicada, you can imagine that you'd be building everything on 5 hard points total. Subtract one for the JJs and you've got a total of 4. You've got things moving in the right direction but you WAY over inflated the weapons.

[CK16]

Malleus011, on 14 June 2016 - 12:51 PM, said:

I'd like to see the Assassin make it into the game.

Also, the rest of the 3025 'mechs. (even the Hatchetman, Scorpion, and Goliath, as unlikely as they are)

Say no to the OST series guys! There are a few left most Bishop lists usually are worthy.....I think everyone here though would say OST suck....their only good side? They are cheap in TT and lore....something not translated into MWO besides maybe "beginner mech" but since we have no mech tier system it's a pour mech to even get first besides cheap...

[Bishop Steiner]

MeiSooHaityu, on 14 June 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

I get it, I can see where the speed and velocity would be great for the guy, but I'm trying to also see how it would compare.

At 40tons, it isn't going to be Spider sized. It will probably be taller than a Cicada (also 40 tons), but narrower and thinner depth wise. It will probably be close in size to a Phoenix Hawk (45 Ton), but a bit shorter.

A similar 40 ton mech (Cicada again) does about 130~140ish with an light energy load out like 6 MLasers. If this mech carries missiles (with ammo) or 5+ JJs for instance (where most Cicadas carry none), it will eat up tonnage for a large engine. Depending on loadout, I could see it doing about 130kph (close to a maxed out Panther) but with more firepower. Maybe 140kph, but it might run a bit hot or have to sacrifice Some jumping capabilities.

I'm not trying to be negative. I would like the Assassin in the game. I'm just trying to get an idea on how it would play out.

Note bro, I never said Spider SIZED. Spider SHAPED. Of course it will be taller than a Spider (and wider) and it should be shorter than a Blackjack (two mechs though that I think are probably scaling up). But it's the SHAPE that determines hitboxes. And being Spider shaped, while not massively larger, is a good thing for avoiding ranged fire, though not as good for spreading it usually in CQB (where those ape hangers on VNDs and CN9s come in real handy... or even the ACH/FS9 style shoulder pads.

Add that to a 130 kph mech, capable of packing a pair of MLs and 4xSRM, without being the walking CT the Jenner is, and JJs? The point is it really won't play too close to anything we currently have, thus I'm saying trying to describe it apples to apples to PNTs, SDRs, VNDs, etc, is a moot point. Because it's none of the above.

Narcissistic Martyr, on 14 June 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

I never was a fan of the assassin in TT. It was just so out performed by the phoenix hawk as a scoutlance leader and the jenner as a bug hunter.

Good thing MWO ain't TT, eh? Where things like physical geometry matter.

[Bishop Steiner]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 14 June 2016 - 01:05 PM, said:

Yes but I LIKE the Valkyrie. I used them extensively as cheap mobile LRM dispensing platforms so I've got a soft spot in my heart for the things.

ASN did the VLQ role pretty well, too. Since the fluff was the SRM2 failed a lot, mine usually ran 2x LRM5. Some dropped 2 JJ for an extra ton of ammo. 1.5 tons less armor, than the VLQ but at 7/11 a whole lot more tactically flexible, and still rather cheap. Admittedly, didn't work in "stock only" campaigns.

Narcissistic Martyr, on 14 June 2016 - 12:31 PM, said:

Valkyrie is next most likely. But it'll do the same sort of thing and have energy hard points to boot.

and be sloooooooow. And need even more hardpoint inflation than the ASN, while having them in 2 spots, vs 3, so easier to gib.

In stock TT, VLQ was a good mech. In MWO it pretty much loses in every way, unless they really give the VLQ solid geometry/hitboxes and structure buffs to emulate it's tough reputation. But not sure that would be enough to comp for it's comparative lack of speed. (even if boosted like the PNT was)

[Bishop Steiner]

Kanil, on 14 June 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

Indeed. I don't understand how anyone could grow to like the comically under-everything'd Assassin.

In MWO you could probably fix most of it's flaws, but I'd rather see the Javelin. But if light 'mechs aren't a thing anymore, then I suppose it'd be better than nothing.

because what works in a turn based TT game, and what works in a 3D FPS are often radically different? Never was a huge ASN fan either...til I played MW:2 Mercs, where it could be an absolute terror.

How? slap on a second LRM5 in place of the SRM2, ammo in place of 2 JJ. (honestly one could often get away with dropping a couple more JJs for more armor, too).

The ASN walked in reverse faster than most Mediums and Heavies and essentially ALL Assaults could in MW2. Once the AI locked on to you though, it would doggedly pursue. Reversing with LRMs, meant that the Enemy units were always moving INTO range of my missiles, while I was always moving OUT OF RANGE from theirs (if they even had LRMs). LRMs also LOVED to eat Heads in MW2. Loved em like a fat man at a Chinese buffet. I would have a lance of Stalkers advancing on me, moonwalk away, raining my piddly 2x LRM5, and cockpit all 4 before my tubes went dry, and never get shot in return.

THAT is why I fell in love with the ASN.

[Cy Mitchell]

Where are all the "no over engined, low hardpoints, equals bad" crowd that attacked the Viper and Black Lanner Clan Mechs? Are they afraid to rile the mighty Bishop?
I only buy and drive Clan so I have no opinion on the Assassin. I am just surprised that the opposition is so silent based on the TRO stats.


If the Uziel ever makes it into the game then I will buy an IS Mech. I have the same infatuation for it as Bishop has for this Mech and Imperius has for the Mad Cat MKII. Irrational but irresistible.

[Pariah Devalis]

Rampage, on 14 June 2016 - 03:32 PM, said:

Where are all the "no over engined, low hardpoints, equals bad" crowd that attacked the Viper and Black Lanner Clan Mechs? Are they afraid to rile the mighty Bishop?
I only buy and drive Clan so I have no opinion on the Assassin. I am just surprised that the opposition is so silent based on the TRO stats.


If the Uziel ever makes it into the game then I will buy an IS Mech. I have the same infatuation for it as Bishop has for this Mech and Imperius has for the Mad Cat MKII. Irrational but irresistible.

It can change engine sizes. It isn't the problem it is with Clan omnimechs. That, and battlemechs almost universally get hardpoint inflation. Again, unlike omnimechs.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 14 June 2016 - 03:34 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

I gotta say... the Assassin in MW2: Mercs marked my transition from TT to video gaming in the Battletech universe. I had played MW prior to that... with the first on Super Nintendo, and the second and all its expansions through a friend's PC. But Mercs was the first MW I could play on a PC of my own. And the Assassin was MY mech.
There was no enemy in the Sphere that dared to oppose me and state standing soon after.

There is no small amount of nostalgia that I have for that mech and should PGI ever drop an Assassin, it is precisely that nostalgia that would have me opening my wallet without hesitation.

My wallet would not be opening, certainly, because I feel the Assassin would be a good mech in MWO. In fact, it pains me to say I think it'd turn out mediocre at best unless it saw some nostalgia-pleasing levels of TLC. But strapping into the pilot seat of an Assassin, for me, would be like reacquainting myself with an old friend nearly forgotten.

[Bishop Steiner]

ScarecrowES, on 14 June 2016 - 03:40 PM, said:

I gotta say... the Assassin in MW2: Mercs marked my transition from TT to video gaming in the Battletech universe. I had played MW prior to that... with the first on Super Nintendo, and the second and all its expansions through a friend's PC. But Mercs was the first MW I could play on a PC of my own. And the Assassin was MY mech.
There was no enemy in the Sphere that dared to oppose me and state standing soon after.

There is no small amount of nostalgia that I have for that mech and should PGI ever drop an Assassin, it is precisely that nostalgia that would have me opening my wallet without hesitation.

My wallet would not be opening, certainly, because I feel the Assassin would be a good mech in MWO. In fact, it pains me to say I think it'd turn out mediocre at best unless it saw some nostalgia-pleasing levels of TLC. But strapping into the pilot seat of an Assassin, for me, would be like reacquainting myself with an old friend nearly forgotten.

I doubt it would be Meta, but I think it could be quite good in QP. Not great, but more than mediocre, as it should have good profile, great mobility and a decent enough punch. Not expecting it to have Oxide level quirks mind you, but I like the potential.

What was your preferred Build and Tactic with your Assassin?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 14 June 2016 - 04:02 PM.