140 replies to this topic

[Cy Mitchell]

Cure the Alpha problem and the Oxide, Jenner II-C and Arctic Cheetah become mortal again.

[Mycrus]

funny... when I bought the oxide... they said it was trash tier....

seesaw balance at its finest..

[Barantor]

Mycrus, on 15 June 2016 - 06:48 PM, said:

funny... when I bought the oxide... they said it was trash tier....

seesaw balance at its finest..

Yeah I bought it when it was new because I wanted another light hero mech and folks were saying it was always going to be DOA because of no JJs....

So many times the balance redoes the perceptions and function of mechs throughout this game is a big reason why we see a lot of folks leave for long amounts of time.

[Mycrus]

Barantor, on 15 June 2016 - 07:01 PM, said:

Yeah I bought it when it was new because I wanted another light hero mech and folks were saying it was always going to be DOA because of no JJs....

So many times the balance redoes the perceptions and function of mechs throughout this game is a big reason why we see a lot of folks leave for long amounts of time.

it's just indicative of their 'shooting from the hip' balance methodology... i'm waiting for the TDK to become god tier...

[Chuck Jager]

Rampage, on 15 June 2016 - 04:28 PM, said:

Cure the Alpha problem and the Oxide, Jenner II-C and Arctic Cheetah become mortal again.

Oxide has a low alpha, but high fire rate
Cheetah has about the same alpha as many other decent lights but longer clan range and great hitboxes
Only the SRM JennIIC has the great alpha

I do not mind the Oxide rate of fire, but I feel either the rate or the internal structure needs to go. A laser burning light is pretty much dead unless it has many IS smallpulse with duration and can get in close while still moving. It is funny how srms for lights now seem better than lasers for dependable damage - especially against other lights. (my observation - not the best light pilot though)

I have seen some really mediocre Oxides (poor predictable movement) dodge damage as well as some of the Spiders of old, but with better damage numbers.

[DarthHias]

Mycrus, on 15 June 2016 - 07:06 PM, said:

it's just indicative of their 'shooting from the hip' balance methodology... i'm waiting for the TDK to become god tier...

When they buff my TDK to god tier, I´ll run it all day long. The salt will be mined.

[Sjorpha]

Alistair Winter, on 15 June 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

We can rationalise this until the cows come home. The fact of the matter is that the Oxide is one of the top 3 light mechs now, has been for a while. People act like the quirks aren't the reason, and it's increasingly silly.

Yes, obviously the quirks are why it is strong now. It was a weak mech before the quirks, other Jenners (F&D) were considered much stronger.

That does mean it needs slightly stronger quirks that the other jenners, but maybe not as strong as they are now. Toning the Oxide down needs to be done carefully though, as without quirks it just isn't a good mech.

There is actually no reason it should be weaker than the Jenner iic missile variant, so I would use that to measure it against.

[feeWAIVER]

Chuck Jager, on 15 June 2016 - 10:52 PM, said:

I have seen some really mediocre Oxides (poor predictable movement) dodge damage as well as some of the Spiders of old, but with better damage numbers.

If you have "seen some really mediocre Oxides (poor predictable movement) dodge damage", I would cast my gaze on the really mediocre pilot shooting at it.....

[Corrado]

Bush Hopper, on 15 June 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

Personally I think the Oxide is better than any IIC Jenners.

I think some structure quirks should be toned down. However, I fear PGI will give it the Huginn treatment...which is now trash tier having no big alpha (which it didn't have before) and no dps to speak of (which it had before at least).

i drive em both. i still prefer by far the Oxide. is more agile, better turn rate, structure quirks, weapon quirks. in a long match the oxide outDPS the IIC by a good amount. the only side the IIC is better, is at jump shooting 6SRM6 on focused targets staying close to the team. Oxide vs IIC, the Oxide outbrawls the IIC.

[L3mming2]

got both the oxide and the IIC my prefered setup is a IIC with 4 srm6 2 srm2s and a jump jet
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5c4ee109504753a

its pros (vs the oxide)
- faster (oxide has to run a 280)
- jj makes terain mobility so much better on a fast light mech...
- a alpha thats ideal for a quik and dirty backstab (just the way i like it

its cons
- less tanky
- less acurate spread (against heavys and assaults i dont find this a issue but against meds and lights..)
- less heat efficient (the IIC pays for its burst in sustaind dps..)

my opinion the IIC is gr8 at assasinating assaults and heavys. and has better mobility to get in and out of assasination oportunitys. the oxide however will kick the IIC's but in a brawl...

[Weeny Machine]

Sjorpha, on 15 June 2016 - 11:13 PM, said:

Yes, obviously the quirks are why it is strong now. It was a weak mech before the quirks, other Jenners (F&D) were considered much stronger.

That does mean it needs slightly stronger quirks that the other jenners, but maybe not as strong as they are now. Toning the Oxide down needs to be done carefully though, as without quirks it just isn't a good mech.

There is actually no reason it should be weaker than the Jenner iic missile variant, so I would use that to measure it against.

How many of the other Jenners do you see? I haven't seen many. Heck, some matches were light mechs in the vast minority. These Jenners may have been strong one time but the power creep made them meh to mediocre (that holds true for other classes as well, though, where many old meches are just mediocre or even lackluster). So arguing that the Oxide needs "slightly" better quirks is debatable. However, the structure quirks are a bit too much. Running a Jenner IIC and an Oxide is a hell of a difference.

Chuck Jager, on 15 June 2016 - 10:52 PM, said:

A laser burning light is pretty much dead unless it has many IS smallpulse with duration and can get in close while still moving. It is funny how srms for lights now seem better than lasers for dependable damage - especially against other lights. (my observation - not the best light pilot though)

Imo this assessment is correct. The laser burn is a dot and rolls pretty well over a light or some beam duration even hits nothing. Missiles while spreading damage still deliver the whole damage. So yeah, I got the same impression as you

Edited by Bush Hopper, 16 June 2016 - 05:19 AM.

[DarthHias]

If the Locusts really get smaller with the rescale it´s kneecap warrior online

[Murphy7]

I switch between Jenner-D and Oxide regularly, because JJ are that useful and the D has a lot going for it save structure quirks. I'd like to see the Oxide toned down a bit and the other Jenners brought up so they all enjoy similar quirks with respect to structure.

[Lehmund]

Lights should be hit and run mechs, scout mechs or "hide in the bush and shoot from afar or high" mechs. All those in all history of warfare, typically have poor armor in exchange for size and speed to do what needs to be done.

Heavier "tanks" have other roles.

The Oxide is a hit and run mech variation. It's fast, it carries a punch but it's not a medium or heavy mech so it should have structure quirks similar to other lights in its weight class to keep to form. Otherwise, I have no problem with it at all, just like most of you.

Personally, I think we'd have an easier time "hitting" fast light mechs if the engine would calculate hits properly. It seems fine with direct fire weapons like PPCs, UACs and SRMs i.e. when I properly lead a light and shoot those weapons, they seem to hit and damage the light nicely, or kill. When I use lasers however, I often follow the light guys' body properly, constantly registering a RED RETICLE on my client with a full precise 50 point alpha (difficult but it happens), only to see that the light's armor just went from yellow to orange on it's rear armor....... Granted, likely some of the damage has spread around without me noticing (jitters and all), but those little guys have 5-6 armor on their backs sooooo how come I didn't shave off more armor or kill the little bugger?

Light survivability in the open against lasers seems to be more of a technical issue than the actual weapons or hit boxes. At least that's an observation vs Lasers specifically.

[Sjorpha]

Bush Hopper, on 16 June 2016 - 05:13 AM, said:

How many of the other Jenners do you see? I haven't seen many. Heck, some matches were light mechs in the vast minority. These Jenners may have been strong one time but the power creep made them meh to mediocre (that holds true for other classes as well, though, where many old meches are just mediocre or even lackluster). So arguing that the Oxide needs "slightly" better quirks is debatable. However, the structure quirks are a bit too much. Running a Jenner IIC and an Oxide is a hell of a difference.

Yes, despite being competitive lights once Jenners are now mediocre due to power creep. The Oxide is the only one that has been quirked up to follow that creep, and that is probably because it was never a competitive mech before so PGI weren't as hesitant to quirk it while the F and D they were afraid to quirk because of their previous status as the comp lights of choice.

The point is that without quirks the Oxide would be even more mediocre than the other jenners, it's not a very strong chassis in itself. I do think it needs a tone down but if it's done carelessly it can easily slide back into worthlessness. The main risk is that it is made too squishy and then there will be no argument to take it over a Jenner iic anymore.

[Morggo]

I'm with Murphy7, even as a long time and dedicated Oxide pilot I wouldn't cry if they did a small trim to it IF they also bump up the other Jenners a bit and overall balanced the whole variant family. I actually do drive all my Jenners, each is configured to a unique role as fits my mood.

(I know it'll draw some salt, but honestly I can put up the same numbers in my 6xSPL -F)

Edited by Morggo, 16 June 2016 - 06:56 AM.

[Darian DelFord]

As someone who pilots nothing but lights and Jenners specifically.

The D F AND K are in dire need or upgrades with the current state of the game, as well as other lights.

The Heavies and Assaults can whine all they want. But the fact of the matter is lights have been nerfered into the ground simply because they want to be the only thing feared on the battle ground and not worry about their backs and legs.

Something else I find interesting is the "Oh we can't hit them argument" All the while their arm lock is on.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 16 June 2016 - 07:29 AM.

[Yellonet]

Darian DelFord, on 15 June 2016 - 04:13 PM, said:

Potato potatoe

Tomato tomatoe

Insane lethal.

The thought is the same ������

Your thought might be the same, not mine. Nothing insane with 32 point alpha. But it's good for a light with good movement and speed which makes it lethal.

On topic, there's a reason why we see many more oxides now than a while ago. And the regular Jenners are quite rare these days.

Edited by Yellonet, 16 June 2016 - 08:26 AM.

[L3mming2]

Lehmund, on 16 June 2016 - 06:00 AM, said:

Lights should be hit and run mechs, scout mechs or "hide in the bush and shoot from afar or high" mechs. All those in all history of warfare, typically have poor armor in exchange for size and speed to do what needs to be done.

Heavier "tanks" have other roles.

The Oxide is a hit and run mech variation. It's fast, it carries a punch but it's not a medium or heavy mech so it should have structure quirks similar to other lights in its weight class to keep to form. Otherwise, I have no problem with it at all, just like most of you.

Personally, I think we'd have an easier time "hitting" fast light mechs if the engine would calculate hits properly. It seems fine with direct fire weapons like PPCs, UACs and SRMs i.e. when I properly lead a light and shoot those weapons, they seem to hit and damage the light nicely, or kill. When I use lasers however, I often follow the light guys' body properly, constantly registering a RED RETICLE on my client with a full precise 50 point alpha (difficult but it happens), only to see that the light's armor just went from yellow to orange on it's rear armor....... Granted, likely some of the damage has spread around without me noticing (jitters and all), but those little guys have 5-6 armor on their backs sooooo how come I didn't shave off more armor or kill the little bugger?

Light survivability in the open against lasers seems to be more of a technical issue than the actual weapons or hit boxes. At least that's an observation vs Lasers specifically.

i for one put more back armor on my lights then on anny other mech (like 10 ore even 12) combine that with small hit boxes and fast movement... i am quite shure that when it comes to lights i am not the only one who uses more back armor then most mechs.. (my other mechs usualy only have 6)

[L3mming2]

Yellonet, on 16 June 2016 - 08:24 AM, said:

Your thought might be the same, not mine. Nothing insane with 32 point alpha. But it's good for a light with good movement and speed which makes it lethal.

On topic, there's a reason why we see many more oxides now than a while ago. And the regular Jenners are quite rare these days.

the oxide douse not have that good movment speed its speed is on the lower side compared to the other oxides/fs9s.... you need to take the 280 for a viable build...