597 replies to this topic

[Hagar]

Joystick or mouse mostly depends on the game. I tried to play Privateer with a mouse: it was a nightmare. With a joystick on the other hand it was a great experience.

For Mechwarrior i always used a joystick. Preferably with force feedback. The feeling was simply better.

Probably i should give one of the egs a try :


There is even a manual:

[Maxiom]

Well my system input is a bit overkill for MW with 13 axis and 40+ buttons on my joysticks, a keyboard, a right hand mouse and a left hand mouse.... If anyone wants to build their own setup I do recommend the following:

http://www.u-hid.com/home/index.php

Anyway, going to take me some time to get into game due to me being on Linux, so see you all a couple weeks after Aug 27

[Bongo TauKat]

Hagar, on 16 July 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

Joystick or mouse mostly depends on the game. I tried to play Privateer with a mouse: it was a nightmare. With a joystick on the other hand it was a great experience.

For Mechwarrior i always used a joystick. Preferably with force feedback. The feeling was simply better.

Probably i should give one of the egs a try :

There is even a manual:

The Dooley trainer is way better than the bimbette voice over.

[EvangelionUnit]

what feels better ?
swat a (*** **** FAST) running light mech with you heavy/assault when using an oooold(ah 4+axis 10+buttons) school joystick ? or when going with stuff that even the last WoT Driver got (no offense here, because, srysly, everyone with a desktop PC got this)

when you hold down the prime fire button and flood the others armor with light weapon fire aaaal the time ? or unleashing the hell of 3 or more ppc's at once ?

or just left clicking around like in a boooring office document ?? huh huh huh ??

would you play HAWX with mouse and keyboard ?

[StarfyrGuns]

Maxiom, on 16 July 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

Well my system input is a bit overkill for MW with 13 axis and 40+ buttons on my joysticks, a keyboard, a right hand mouse and a left hand mouse.... If anyone wants to build their own setup I do recommend the following:

http://www.u-hid.com/home/index.php

Anyway, going to take me some time to get into game due to me being on Linux, so see you all a couple weeks after Aug 27

I also use mouse+joy+kb

[ChargerIIC]

kurosaki55, on 16 July 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

i have a razer hydra that i hope can be used decently with this game. crossing my fingers

Robojox!

[ollo]

Wraeththix Constantine, on 16 July 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

I'd scan it in, but it's just easier to link this:

http://mwomercs.com/...0186#entry50186

http://battletech.rp...pit-html&uid=68

Functionally, most mechs drive like aircraft. Throttle, stick and pedals. Since mechs in Battletech don't have a single tracking reticule like we do, there's no reason to have a mouse-style control in them.

Like i said, i may be completely wrong.

But for, me this is a weak point in all mecha stories/movies/animes etc. an i will gladly move away from 'canon' in my mind. How the hell should anyone be able to control a mech like it's alway described with just a joystick? Even moving an arm away from the torso or bashing it into another mech forces an image in my head where some poor guy is twiddeling furiously with at least half a dozen joysticks and a couple of shiny buttons to control the relevant actuators. It's just plain outright impossible to move a mech(a) in a human-like fashion without some sort of direct brain control over many of the components.

So, i wish all joystickers good luck out there, i'll most likely stomp on your burnt-out chassis while enjoying my improved neurohelmet, a.k.a. mouse & keyboard...

[Soulvoid]

Harabeck, on 16 July 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

That doesn't make any sense. In MWO, moving your crosshairs are what triggers your torso to twist. They're not two separate actions. You guys realize that MWO has a different control scheme than the previous mechwarrior titles right? For instance, you will never need a joystick's twisting action to control the torso, as some seem to think.

I hope that this can be selected and disabled if it is true. In MWO, you have a lot of variables to take into consideration. Lets say that your Left torso armor is almost gone but you have almost full right torso and CT, I would want to torso twist to the left to present my right side instead of directly facing my target. You could then still target with arm mounted weapons while keeping your weakened armor out of the line of fire.

The short of it is, we will not know until we actually get into the beta and test, but I can not see that mouse/kb will have any advantage at all.

[Devlin Pierce]

I don't think its DESIGNED for joysticks, but it will support them, and they will be a great option for those who want them.

[Cid]

JesterMWO, on 16 July 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

I've used NoIR for driving games (GTR2, Race07, rFactor) and have had no noticeable lag.

hmm have you ever tried aiming with headmovement-tracking as well? would it be precise enough to be a viable option?

here is a vid where you can see at least some delay:

[Harabeck]

IceSerpent, on 16 July 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

For MW joystick is slightly better if implemented correctly. The correct implementation is that throttle axis, torso twist axis, and torso pitch axis are positional (i.e. your crosshairs always stay in the same position, which is dictated by positioning of the stick), while chassis turn axis controls the speed of the turn (the more you tilt the stick, the faster you turn).
In FPS games mouse is superior due to the fact that it's all about twitching the wrist - your crosshairs move as fast as your hand moves. In sims the "agility" of whatever is being simulated is usually dictated by something else (i.e. maneuverability of an aircraft has nothing to do with how fast you can move the mouse), so with joystick/HOTAS you get much easier and more intuitive control and the main (if not only) benefit of using the mouse doesn't apply.
That being said, the difference is usually minimal - you can play a sim with mouse+keyboard, it's just easier to do that with a joystick.

I believe that indeed, a sim game could be designed in such a way that the joystick is superior, and that a good case can be made that the previous titles are like that (although I would argue only because developers knew less about how to implement proper controls in those days). However, those games came out in another era when joysticks were much more common. There is no way PGI didn't design the game with mouse and keyboard in mind. Joysticks are less common, and F2P games are all about a low barrier to entry, so mouse and keyboard must be viable. And, from what I've been able to grasp of MWO's controls, mouse is not only viable, but the better option. It will simply be easier to get precise shots onto enemy mechs with mouse aim than wrestling with your joystick.

[Rayspace]

Wraeththix Constantine, on 16 July 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

MechWarrior was originally designed for a joystick. The first MW2 tourney I won, the top 5 people got a Sidewinder as part of the prize package. While the machines that were setup all had K+M, they also all had a joystick (sidewinder) and pretty much everyone used it.

Now a days, people are too concerned about accessibility. Most games are designed around a laptop with a mouse first, and then anything you add onto it is considered "something only hardcore people do." Some sim games break this mold and don't do this, so you see racing and flight sims that don't do well with K+M.

MWO though is not a Sim. It's just an FPS with slightly slower controls. So the CoD kids have the right of it. It was designed as a K+M game that just allows you to use other controls if you wanted. But it's not much different than using a d-pad in an FPS. Sure, you can use it, but you will never be competitive with the people who use a mouse.

Maybe someday someone will man up and start producing sims again, but for now, using the joystick is just something you do because you find it fun, not because you're trying to win. In modern games, as you pointed out, winning and having fun are generally mutually exclusive. Fun ceased to be the primary purpose of games quite a while back when grinding and time-investment took over.

that is so sad....i like the authoritative voice too. i will duel ya man just for fun.

thontor, on 16 July 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

Having not played the game and only seen videos.. there does seem like there might be an advantage towards mouse users. The arms and torso have seperate recticles, the arm recticle is what moves with your input, and the torso follows to try to line up the recticles. If the arms react to twitch mouse movement, it might be advantageous to use a mouse for mechs with their primary weapons mounted on the arms, like the Catapult K2.. if you can use the mouse to move the arm recticle and fire with a twitch of the wrist.

I guess it depends on how fast you can move your arms.. that's what will determine whether i use amouse or not..

x 52 pro thumb stick on the throttle.

[Harabeck]

Soulvoid, on 16 July 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

I hope that this can be selected and disabled if it is true. In MWO, you have a lot of variables to take into consideration. Lets say that your Left torso armor is almost gone but you have almost full right torso and CT, I would want to torso twist to the left to present my right side instead of directly facing my target. You could then still target with arm mounted weapons while keeping your weakened armor out of the line of fire.

I don't see what this has to do with joystick vs mouse. Both will have the same issue in that case. Whether your torso twisting is controlled by the mouse x-axis or the joystick's twist, there still doesn't seem to be a way to twist the arms in the opposite direction (as far as I can tell of course).

Quote

The short of it is, we will not know until we actually get into the beta and test, but I can not see that mouse/kb will have any advantage at all.

The advantage I perceive for mouse is more precise aiming.

[Ko Time]

Soulvoid, on 16 July 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

I hope that this can be selected and disabled if it is true. In MWO, you have a lot of variables to take into consideration. Lets say that your Left torso armor is almost gone but you have almost full right torso and CT, I would want to torso twist to the left to present my right side instead of directly facing my target. You could then still target with arm mounted weapons while keeping your weakened armor out of the line of fire.

The short of it is, we will not know until we actually get into the beta and test, but I can not see that mouse/kb will have any advantage at all.

Unless someone is breaking NDA we dont know the controls for torso twisting for the mechs. Your point is very valid in wanting the ability to torso twist a damaged part of your mech out of the line of fire.

[Foxtrot Charlie]

my choice is either this



or this



choices choice choices lol

[Raptor8009]

Personally i will use a Hotas Warthog. I may be handicapping myself but I will look damn cool doing it.

[Harabeck]

Ko Time, on 16 July 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

Unless someone is breaking NDA we dont know the controls for torso twisting for the mechs.

You can see it clearly in the frozen city reveal. There is an indicator on the top of the HUD which shows torso twist, and a circle representing the mouse's aim. As it moves to the side, the torso twists.

[3clipse]

Controllers are for old people. I had a USB port surgically implanted in the back of my skull just for MWO! Sure it isn't an authentic Neurohelmet from Battletech lore, but this is just a game so close enough. My reaction times should be off the chart!

[light487]

Played MW4 and MW:LL over the weekend..

Without a joystick MW4 can get out of control very quickly.. it was, so it seems, designed around having a joystick.. when joysticks were the thing that everyone had.

MW:LL on the hand is extremely playable without a joystick... I don't know why.. just the way the control scheme is setup. It's not just about which buttons do what but how it all works together.

Driving a tank with a joystick seems weird to me... flying a plane without a joystick seems weird to me..

A 'Mech is more like a tank than it is a plane but due to my experiences with MW2/3 (and a little MW4.. tho less memorable), I am leaning towards having a joystick for steering and a mouse for aiming.. but I'm hoping that the control scheme/setup is closer to MW:LL in the sense that it would allow for someone to easily "drive" the 'Mech with keyboard+mouse as much as with a Joystick.

[Thunder Rampage]

Replaying MW4, the main problem I see with the mouse is that it is overly sensitive; even the light mechs felt sluggish with the mouse. I did see that it was easier to make precision shots, but that was only if I didn’t have to worry about making complicated manures. It was more difficult trying to move a mech with mouse, but I can make the mech dance with a joystick. Having all axis covered by one hand made is much easier to move.

I’m not convinced that the mouse gives you an advantage over the joystick. I understand how a mouse does give you an advantage in FPS’s over a controller because of its finer control. When I look at the issue, it looks like there is a tradeoff between maneuverability and aim. I would rather have more maneuverability than aim so I’m going to have a joystick, but it looks like both require a unique playing style to be effective with them.