63 replies to this topic

[Chryckan]

I like the PPC. I like the sound. I like the GFX. I especially like the splash it makes when it hits something. I want to use it.

Problem, I I can't do any damage with it. Mostly because whenever I shoot I seem to miss. I try to shoot directly at a target I miss. I try to lead the target I miss. Shots that I know would have been a guaranteed hit with any other weapon system miss. Even when I hit I apparently miss.
Because even though I see the PPCs make a nice splash on an enemy and the cross-hair turn red I still end up with a double digit damage score.

And I don't even know what I do wrong because according to the feedback from the game, big nice splash on the enemy mech and red flashing cross.hair, I didn't.
Though it does happen that I feel like the shot just went through the enemy. (I checked. Nothing wrong with the hit registration however.)

So what should I do to hit and do reliable damage with a PPCs.

[Aerei]

PPCs have pretty bad shot velocity unless you use a mech that's quirked with 40-50% PPC velocity. Try something like the Marauder 3R with PPCs, or something similarly quirked (and to stress, I mean better than 30% velocity). You might see a difference.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Thats because in Soviet Russia... PPC get you!

[Metus regem]

Chryckan, on 17 June 2016 - 08:03 AM, said:

I like the PPC. I like the sound. I like the GFX. I especially like the splash it makes when it hits something. I want to use it.

Problem, I I can't do any damage with it. Mostly because whenever I shoot I seem to miss. I try to shoot directly at a target I miss. I try to lead the target I miss. Shots that I know would have been a guaranteed hit with any other weapon system miss. Even when I hit I apparently miss.
Because even though I see the PPCs make a nice splash on an enemy and the cross-hair turn red I still end up with a double digit damage score.

And I don't even know what I do wrong because according to the feedback from the game, big nice splash on the enemy mech and red flashing cross.hair, I didn't.
Though it does happen that I feel like the shot just went through the enemy. (I checked. Nothing wrong with the hit registration however.)

So what should I do to hit and do reliable damage with a PPCs.

The PPC family is a high skill floor, high skill ceiling weapon system. They are also suffering from poor hit detection, especially when fired in multiples.

That being said, PPC's are slow on most mechs, read anything not pushing a +40% or greater velocity. This means that they require lots of leading. The other issue is, normal Inner Sphere (IS) PPC's have a dead zone of 90m, when fired at 89.9m they do 0 damage.

IF you are looking for a chassis that has good PPC support quirks, I would suggest:

MAD-3R
WHM-6R <-- this is my Warhammer build, that I use to deadly effect
AWS-8Q

If you can get down the skill to use PPC's well, you will find that you have slightly better gunnery skills than the bulk of the player base.

[TooDumbToQuit]

And let me guess, nothing on the Clan side have that quirk.......................

Chryckan, I recently rediscovered the Training Academy. I was also having problems with the PPC and shooting in general. I also love the PPC. It is long range, it fires fast so you can duck back into cover fast and it is supposed to do some good damage. There is also a mental part having it shot at you. I've backed up assault Mechs coming through a tunnel etc (until they find out I'm in a Kit Fox, lol)

I plan on doing more of the Mechwarrior Academy but the three I'm doing now might be of some interest to you.

The first one that woke me up from the Shooting Gallery. This one has Mechs going back and forth in front of you and is for helping to learn how to lead while shooting. It was taking me 24 shots with the PPC hit 8 targets. So I switched to a large pulse laser and I went to 8 shots, 8 hits. So THAT was a wake-up call.

There is one called Rapid Fire. This one is to teach targeting and switching and hitting targets. And it uses the several turrets set up there as targets. But those turrets have another duty. Before you enter Rapid Fire or anything else, just shoot at them and it will tell you how much damage you do.

One part of this I want to ask the good people here about because it does not seem to lower the damage if you use a longer range weapon at a shorter range. But it does show how a laser that is let's say rated at 400M max will not do damage at 450Ms.

Again, there are several important areas, not just these three.

But one you should try beyond Rapid Fire is &quot;Onslaught&quot;. Here, 4 -12 "Walking Dead" or wounded Mechs will move at you and will fire when they are within very close range. They come right at you but they do jump a lot which throws off your aim. Start at EASY and work your way up.

Besides just showing you what weapons work well for you, this also teaches targeting and aiming for damaged areas. Because all of the Mechs coming at you have at least one badly damaged area. You will learn or die trying to hit these areas.

Edited by LikeUntoGod, 17 June 2016 - 09:06 AM.

[Alienized]

warhawk and adder are dedicated clan ppc shooters but clan PPC's are already faster than IS PPC/ ER PPC by nature.
they also have more damage and higher range.

[Zombie Gandhi]

As has already been said, the PPC is not an easy weapon to master. The suggestions of finding mechs with velocity quirks is good, as is the Academy. Just a few other things to keep in mind, with the PPC.

Like all other weapons, the 10 damage is from within optimal. Beyond that, as we all know, that damage decreases. Also as was mentioned, PPC does have a minimum range of 90m. ER-PPC does not, but you of course suffer greater heat build up.

Another thing worth noting, with the PPC, is the size of the projectile, and its splash damage. If memory serves me correctly, think of it less like a bullet, and more like a large blob; meaning that you will only do the 10 damage if the entire blob hits the mech. So if the PPC blob is grazing say, an arm, it's not going to do the full 10 damage to the arm. However, if this is no longer the case, than feel free to ignore it.

[IQcreditscore]

WHEN you get ready to play faction play I think you will find the hit detection is better. It may be a placebo affect BUT when using ppc's on my thunderbolt the hit detection seems more spot on in FP. I wonder if PGI is using a 64 tick server for it instead of the 30 in quickplay or maybe it has less load. Either way they seem to attribute hits more often in FP and less of the I saw a hit 30 times in quickplay but only got 200 damage.

[Mystek]

Chryckan, on 17 June 2016 - 08:03 AM, said:

Because even though I see the PPCs make a nice splash on an enemy and the cross-hair turn red I still end up with a double digit damage score.

Not firing inside the range (for regular PPCs) or beyond maximum range are you? Either of these will not register damage even if you hit.

[Digital_Angel]

I'm with you on loving the PPC, but they are seriously nerfed in MWO compared to what they were in previous MW games. With current weapon stats, the LPL beats the PPC or ERPPC in almost every category for the same weight and lower heat.

As already said, PPCs (especially IS PPCs) really suffer unless you are specifically using a mech with high PPC quirks. Even on my Marauders (which have decent PPC quirks, I usually run lasers instead). My Black Widow or my CDA-3F (pop tart sniper build) are the only mechs I own that keep PPCs as part of my normal builds on them currently.

IS PPCs VS LPL
10 dmg vs 11
9.5 heat vs 7
4 cool down vs 3.5
540/1080 vs 365/730 range/max range, but unless you have serious velocity quirks or catch a mech in the back the extra range isn't really usable
90 minimum range vs no minimum range
3 slots vs 2
1200 projectile velocity vs hitscan
front loaded damage vs .67 sec. duration is the only really category with a big advantage to the PPC

IS ERPPC vs LPL isn't quite as bad on range and velocity comparisons and ditches the minimum range for a bunch of extra heat
10 dmg vs 11
14 heat vs 7
4 cool down vs 3.5
810/1620 vs 365/730 range/max range, but unless you have serious velocity quirks or catch a mech in the back the extra range isn't really usable
no minimum range vs no minimum range
3 slots vs 2
1300 projectile velocity vs hitscan
front loaded damage vs .67 sec. duration is the only really category with a big advantage to the PPC

[Metus regem]

Alienized, on 17 June 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

warhawk and adder are dedicated clan ppc shooters but clan PPC's are already faster than IS PPC/ ER PPC by nature.
they also have more damage and higher range.

They sort of have higher damage...

Clan ERPPCs do their damage like this currently: 2.5/10/2.5

That means if you hit CT, you will do 2.5 damage to LT and RT, if you hit LT you do 2.5 damage to LA and CT, if you hit LA you do 2.5 to LT.

For an interesting take on a Clan ERPPC mech, please take a look at my:

TBR-METUS

This is the Timber Wolf I run, when I want to feel like I am cheating at MWO, it has enough on demand damage that it can kill most mechs from behind before getting too high into the red zone on heat. This mech rewards a practiced gunner that understands trigger discipline.

[TooDumbToQuit]

LadyDanams, on 17 June 2016 - 09:38 AM, said:

I'm with you on loving the PPC, but they are seriously nerfed in MWO compared to what they were in previous MW games. With current weapon stats, the LPL beats the PPC or ERPPC in almost every category for the same weight and lower heat. As already said, PPCs (especially IS PPCs) really suffer unless you are specifically using a mech with high PPC quirks. Even on my Marauders (which have decent PPC quirks, I usually run lasers instead). My Black Widow or my CDA-3F (pop tart sniper build) are the only mechs I own that keep PPCs as part of my normal builds on them currently. IS PPCs VS LPL 10 dmg vs 11 9.5 heat vs 7 4 cool down vs 3.5 540/1080 vs 365/730 range/max range, but unless you have serious velocity quirks or catch a mech in the back the extra range isn't really usable 90 minimum range vs no minimum range 3 slots vs 2 1200 projectile velocity vs hitscan front loaded damage vs .67 sec. duration is the only really category with a big advantage to the PPC IS ERPPC vs LPL isn't quite as bad on range and velocity comparisons and ditches the minimum range for a bunch of extra heat 10 dmg vs 11 14 heat vs 7 4 cool down vs 3.5 810/1620 vs 365/730 range/max range, but unless you have serious velocity quirks or catch a mech in the back the extra range isn't really usable no minimum range vs no minimum range 3 slots vs 2 1300 projectile velocity vs hitscan front loaded damage vs .67 sec. duration is the only really category with a big advantage to the PPC

I think you meant to compare the C-ER PPC with the C-ER LL. Or maybe it was the C-LPL but your numbers are wrong

Edited by LikeUntoGod, 17 June 2016 - 12:39 PM.

[Moldur]

Get something with 1 or 2 PPCs, and fill it with heatsinks. Shoot PPCs for the entire match at anything you think you might hit. You're basically limited by time (if not survival.) Even launching and landing PPCs all game, you can get anywhere from mediocre 250ish-300s damage, or really high damage. It is basically a matter of how long the match was and how long you were able to have targets.

[Koniving]

Alienized, on 17 June 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

warhawk and adder are dedicated clan ppc shooters but clan PPC's are already faster than IS PPC/ ER PPC by nature.
they also have more damage and higher range.

ER ppcs are faster than regular ppcs. Clan and Is er ppcs have the same speed.

It is usually a good idea to use ppcs in about 100 to 450 meters for the best effect.

Note the more ppcs you fire at once the more wonky hit detection becomes if you or the enemy has a high ping. This is why the weapon has fallen so far out of favor in MWO.

[GLaDOSauR]

Chryckan, on 17 June 2016 - 08:03 AM, said:

I like the PPC. I like the sound. I like the GFX. I especially like the splash it makes when it hits something. I want to use it.

Problem, I I can't do any damage with it. Mostly because whenever I shoot I seem to miss. I try to shoot directly at a target I miss. I try to lead the target I miss. Shots that I know would have been a guaranteed hit with any other weapon system miss. Even when I hit I apparently miss.
Because even though I see the PPCs make a nice splash on an enemy and the cross-hair turn red I still end up with a double digit damage score.

And I don't even know what I do wrong because according to the feedback from the game, big nice splash on the enemy mech and red flashing cross.hair, I didn't.
Though it does happen that I feel like the shot just went through the enemy. (I checked. Nothing wrong with the hit registration however.)

So what should I do to hit and do reliable damage with a PPCs.

PPC's can be very fun and satisfying to use once mastered. The problem is...They are basically inferior to LPLs in every way. Sorry

LikeUntoGod, on 17 June 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

I think you meant to compare the C-ER PPC with the C-ER LL. Or maybe it was the C-LPL but your numbers are wrong

Nope. All those numbers are correct sadly.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

dunn like dunn boat.
Warhawk with quad ppc was fun once.
Sadly, half the projectiles pass the enemy (either thanks to low velo or literally passing them), the other half hits but doesn't register.

[TooDumbToQuit]

GLaDOSauR, on 17 June 2016 - 01:07 PM, said:

All those numbers are correct sadly.

For IS lasers, yes. For Clan lasers, no.

I see know she was only comparing IS weapons.

[Chryckan]

So it has crappy hit registration.
At least that explains all the times it felt and looked like the shot went through a mech.

[Digital_Angel]

LikeUntoGod, on 17 June 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

I think you meant to compare the C-ER PPC with the C-ER LL. Or maybe it was the C-LPL but your numbers are wrong

I was comparing IS vs IS and the numbers are all correct. Shows exactly why pulse lasers are the meta instead of PPCs.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Chryckan, on 17 June 2016 - 02:01 PM, said:

So it has crappy hit registration.
At least that explains all the times it felt and looked like the shot went through a mech.

Yeah, that's part of it. As stated elsewhere above, if you're using more than one and firing them simultaneously (or in rapid succession), it is believed that there is a hit registration problem where only the first one will register. Unclear what's really happening behind the scenes there.

Also, and again as pointed out above, if you're firing a standard IS PPC inside of the 90m minimum range, it will do 0 damage. Still hits, and still craps-out target's ECM (if equipped) for 4.0 seconds, but no damage. And outside the optimal range, damage drops off on a linear scale to 0 at twice that range. Firing at a target 800 meters away with a regular PPC? You can hit and do damage, but it won't be MUCH damage.

And the PPC will often travel beyond even the absolute max range, and hit, and show the impact effect, but do zero damage. Same is true (I think?) of ballistic weapons (Gauss being exceptional in that it gets THREE times its optimal range as its max range, so almost two kilometers... you can still exceed that range against visible targets on Alpine Peaks).

Not to call you a newb or anything, and hopefully this doesn't come off as talking down to you. Be sure to check the target's range before firing. If they're too close (<90m for standard PPC) or well outside the optimal range, then it's probably not worth the HIGH heat to fire the PPC. If you're on low heat and you have a good free trade, then go ahead even if it only nets you 2-3 points of damage. If you're getting into a fight and heat is at a premium, though? Save the shot if you can't make it effectively.