90 replies to this topic

[Darian DelFord]

Trauglodyte, on 29 June 2016 - 06:35 PM, said:

I swear, this makes me laugh every time that I have to do it:

Welcome to the world the Cicadas have been living in for 4+ years.

You're not a special snow flake. You've had it easier than you deserved for all of this time. Adjust or move on to a different mech/game.

Least you have an ECM variant ;pp

[Trauglodyte]

Darian DelFord, on 29 June 2016 - 06:36 PM, said:

Least you have an ECM variant ;pp

Which people bastardize with god awful stupid builds. 3 ER Large Laser Cicadas are a joke and people that run that build should be punched in the face and, for the betterment of mankind, sterilized.

I'm all for upquirking the Lights that got adjusted up in size. But, it is sad when people come here and complain like they do. You'd think that LRMs were actually good weapons with the amount of bitching going on. THESE are the people that have been giving you a bad name, Darian. People that have abused crutches that made them think that they were good. The chicken has come home to roost.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 29 June 2016 - 06:45 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Tarogato, on 29 June 2016 - 12:56 PM, said:

I have over 11,000 matches played overall and this is what my top XP earned looks like:







I don't understand how you can have over 1mil XP on most of your lights and over 4mil on your Jenenrs. You must have the smallest active mech stable of anybody who plays this game more than 300 matches per month. Go out and play some different mechs, man! =P

I AM DISAPPOINT
I think you need to go out and play some different mechs .



Alright, I'm done stroking my hipster e-peen.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 June 2016 - 06:46 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

"You know how hard it is to pilot a light mech?"

So hard, brah. Jesus **** whine harder. Seriously I don't think whining could reach this level in text form.

Look at it this way, just once imagine there is a world where mechs that weigh ten's of tons exist. Whether nerfed or altered or whatever you want to think in tryhard world, a light mech should not be Spasmastic Johnson. There are other weights you should try out if your pet mech is no longer as viable as it once was. Just saying, it's better than the alternative.

[Darian DelFord]

JackalBeast, on 29 June 2016 - 06:47 PM, said:

"You know how hard it is to pilot a light mech?"

So hard, brah. Jesus **** whine harder. Seriously I don't think whining could reach this level in text form.

Look at it this way, just once imagine there is a world where mechs that weigh ten's of tons exist. Whether nerfed or altered or whatever you want to think in tryhard world, a light mech should not be Spasmastic Johnson. There are other weights you should try out if your pet mech is no longer as viable as it once was. Just saying, it's better than the alternative.

So lets remove the agility quirks from assaults and heavies so they are not dancing ballerina's..... cool?

Trauglodyte, on 29 June 2016 - 06:43 PM, said:

Which people bastardize with god awful stupid builds. 3 ER Large Laser Cicadas are a joke and people that run that build should be punched in the face and, for the betterment of mankind, sterilized.

I'm all for upquirking the Lights that got adjusted up in size. But, it is sad when people come here and complain like they do. You'd think that LRMs were actually good weapons with the amount of bitching going on. THESE are the people that have been giving you a bad name, Darian. People that have abused crutches that made them think that they were good. The chicken has come home to roost.

There is a 3 or 4 MPL and SRM version that is just nasty.

[justcallme A S H]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 June 2016 - 12:54 PM, said:

Oh, both Jenners got hurt just as much, the IIC already had trouble with being easy to hit before the patch. The humanoid 35 tonners just got the final nail in the coffin for their use.

It's not just the easy to be hit issue either across the rescaled lights. The weapons spread (missle particularly) now the Jenners is fatter is hard to deal with. I'd imagine any rescaled mech will suffer that same issue. I can't imagine how bad a II-C is now, it wasn't that great before.

Even for lasers with a much wider mech, you can't really get up that close with SPL to deal dmg, you have to be a little further back which leaves you more open to being blown away easier as the re-scaled lights really have lost a lot of advantage to a quicker heavy that can simply dime around on you and take off a torso where previously it was quite a bit harder to do that as consistently as it can be done now.

In my assaults/heavies I'm absolutely pulverising anything other than a locust really (which is actually harder now). Spiders, Jenners, Wolfhounds etc - it's just TOO easy to kill them now IMO. I'm not a light pilot and I used to enjoy a good battle with a light. Now it's just too easy to smash the rescaled upscaled guys, not that it is a 'no contest' but it's a hell of a lot easier to win the battle now. I can't imagine it is that enjoyable for them at all

Edited by R31Nismoid, 29 June 2016 - 07:00 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

Darian DelFord, on 29 June 2016 - 06:50 PM, said:

There is a 3 or 4 MPL and SRM version that is just nasty.

True. I run 3 Mediums and an ER Large on mine with max engine size. Speed > cowardly range. Then again, this game has never had a lot of folks that understand what it means to actually play QRF, let alone ECM shielding assist machines. That's why, at the end of every Quick Play game, it always comes down to the Douche Raven, Douche Spider, Douche Cat, etc. Sitting in the back and doing eye candy damage that does nothing for the team is pointless.

[Cy Mitchell]

Darian DelFord, on 29 June 2016 - 06:34 PM, said:

Are you seriously trying to reason by using MC and C-Bills?

Seriously? Why the hell not? All this game is really about for most people is doing the most damage possible so you can earn the most C-Bills and XP possible. If there happens to be an event running score the most MC by completing the event goals. Why wouldn't the fact that a Light cost less than half of what a Heavy or Assault and only three quarters of what a Medium cost be relevant?

Tell me why a Light should be able to equal the damage output and earning potential of a heavier class Mech. It makes no sense to me. That is not how the world works. That is not how lore works and that is not how most games work. What is the basis for thinking that?

I mean other than some people really like Lights and want it that way.

[dario03]

Rampage, on 29 June 2016 - 06:15 PM, said:

Good point why don't you explain to us why we should feel sorry for all you 35 Ton Light Pilots when you have a Mech that cost 1/2 to 1/5 of what my Hellbringer cost. Does 50% to 150% damage. Runs at 100% to 190% the speed. Is at least 50% more agile and is 50% the size.

While I would agree that there needs to be more metrics added to the game to reward other roles such as spotting, scouting, NARCing TAGing and such I think the Light class does just fine in reaping C-Bill rewards for the amount of investment that a LIght Pilots pays for it.

The 35 tonners were ridiculously undersized. They moved like 20Ton Mechs. I get that people hate the change because the Mechs were better than they should have been and now they are not. However, they are far from ineffective. I still see them in game and I still see them racking up kills. They are still fast. They still do the same damage. They are just in a more reasonable place now considering what they cost, their size, the amount of damage they should do and their vulnerability to incoming damage.

I do not hate lights. I find them challenging to drive and challenging to kill. I just do not know how people can seriously post that the 35 tonners have been nerfed into oblivion. They haven't. IMO they have received the proper corrections to make them relevant as 35 ton, cheap, Mechs. Most of them are still fast, move great and pack one hell of a punch. In addition, I am sure that quirks will be adjusted soon. I just hope PGI keeps it sane and does not over quirk some of the chassis and variants like they have in the past.

Now, if you guys want an uber Light Mech then maybe you should lobby for one that cost 5200 MC or 14,000,000 C-Bills that can go toe to toe with a Hellbringer, Timber Wolf or Atlas.

By the way. I am primarily a Medium Pilot. The Hellbringer is the largest Mech I actually have enjoyed playing therefore I chose it for comparison purposes.

A lot of 35t mechs end up costing around 10m cbills once built (excluding modules) which is more than some heavy builds, also the locust is the fotm and that only cost around 6.5m. But besides that they shouldn't balance based on cost, If they did then everybody would just be racing to get to the most expensive mechs and we would end up with bigger=better.

And how does nerfing mechs that weren't even that good to begin with put them in more reasonable place? I could understand if they gave them some more quirks when increasing them but all they did was nerf them, sometimes two or three times over. So its not like they were made to fit comparative volume but are still as good, they are just bigger and flat out worse now.

[Y E O N N E]

Rampage, on 29 June 2016 - 07:09 PM, said:

Tell me why a Light should be able to equal the damage output and earning potential of a heavier class Mech. It makes no sense to me. That is not how the world works. That is not how lore works and that is not how most games work. What is the basis for thinking that?

If the game worked the way you want it to in this matter, you would be condemning players to run inferior 'Mechs simply to satisfy the match-maker.

In general, people dislike being fodder.

[Darian DelFord]

Rampage, on 29 June 2016 - 07:09 PM, said:

Seriously? Why the hell not? All this game is really about for most people is doing the most damage possible so you can earn the most C-Bills and XP possible. If there happens to be an event running score the most MC by completing the event goals. Why wouldn't the fact that a Light cost less than half of what a Heavy or Assault and only three quarters of what a Medium cost be relevant?

Tell me why a Light should be able to equal the damage output and earning potential of a heavier class Mech. It makes no sense to me. That is not how the world works. That is not how lore works and that is not how most games work. What is the basis for thinking that?

I mean other than some people really like Lights and want it that way.

[Y E O N N E]

dario03, on 29 June 2016 - 07:21 PM, said:

also the locust is the fotm and that only cost around 6.5m.

A fully-loaded Locust costs between 30-33 million C-bills if you aren't scrounging modules. There's a recurring cost, too, for the cool-shots and UAVs which are damn-near mandatory.

As for it being the flavor of the month, yup. That said, it's kind of a novelty. It's good at what it does but it's not some amazing death-machine the way the launch-day TBR, SCR, etc. were. Earlier tonight I took one, single shot at a brand-new Locust 1E with a pair of LB-10X and a quad of MedLas from my LK. He lost his left arm, all armor on his left leg, and all armor on his left torso and was then killed approximately two seconds later. That almost never happened with heavier Lights before the re-scale, but it did still happen to the Locust. Nothing has changed.

[InspectorG]

Coolant, on 29 June 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

try piloting a heavier mech instead of crutch light mech. Hopefully eventually lights will do what they are supposed to do and that is scout and spot, rather than brawl and tank like an assault.

Go pilot a light and see just how much spotting and scouting there is to do in MWO, lol. You will be done in 30 seconds if you Solo.

[Alan Davion]

Rampage, on 29 June 2016 - 07:09 PM, said:

Tell me why a Light should be able to equal the damage output and earning potential of a heavier class Mech. It makes no sense to me. That is not how the world works. That is not how lore works and that is not how most games work. What is the basis for thinking that?

I mean other than some people really like Lights and want it that way.

Ignoring the first part of your statement because it's not really relevant ti the discussion at hand.

To start I will say I agree that lights should not be able to equal the damage output of the larger mechs, however, the major problem is the game is so heavily weighted towards damage in calculating your C-Bills/XP/PSR, that if light mechs were restricted to their very-low damage scouting role, then we run into the next major problem the game has.

It does not properly reward light mechs that flank around, Tag/Narc the enemy mechs, and draw them out of position, and then we have the fact that the MAPS THEMSELVES, simply don't allow for these kinds of tactics because they are just too flipping small. Even maps like Alpine Peaks are just BARELY big enough to allow for these kinds of tactics.

The sooner PGI starts rewarding lights, and only lights, for Tag/Narc'ing enemy mechs, and the sooner they start cranking out some big, like MW:LL big, maps, then we'll talk.

InspectorG, on 29 June 2016 - 07:50 PM, said:

Go pilot a light and see just how much spotting and scouting there is to do in MWO, lol. You will be done in 30 seconds if you Solo.

This guy gets it.

[InspectorG]

Trauglodyte, on 29 June 2016 - 06:43 PM, said:

Which people bastardize with god awful stupid builds. 3 ER Large Laser Cicadas are a joke and people that run that build should be punched in the face and, for the betterment of mankind, sterilized.

Yes, and no.

CDA-F you get a whopping 4E. What else you gonna put in it? 2ERPPCs so you can overheat after 2 volleys?

3ERLL WAS good on the X5 when it had those 35% range quirks.

[Trauglodyte]

InspectorG, on 29 June 2016 - 08:09 PM, said:

Yes, and no.

CDA-F you get a whopping 4E. What else you gonna put in it? 2ERPPCs so you can overheat after 2 volleys?

3ERLL WAS good on the X5 when it had those 35% range quirks.

Eh, I'd still say, "No". But, that is my own personal bias. Any more than a single large energy weapon on a Cicada is an awful decision. It is too big, as many Jenner pilots will attest to, to be going at any speed below max. You can pack a punch and still be fast or you can be stupidly slow, heat inefficient, and do nothing for your team other than make yourself feel good with stat padding.

[Lykaon]

Coolant, on 29 June 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

try piloting a heavier mech instead of crutch light mech. Hopefully eventually lights will do what they are supposed to do and that is scout and spot, rather than brawl and tank like an assault.

Why scout? It's totally not needed when we have the playstyle we have now. On any given map we have the same point of engagment every time.All the drop zones and objective locations are fixed so we know that as well.

With game mode votes more than half the time we play skirmish so fighting is the only thing that gets you a victory condition.

On the small maps like HPG,Canyon,mining colony (you know the maps that are most frequently voted for) a base cap in assault is nearly worthless since even the slowest of mechs can cross the entire map before a base is capped out by a single light mech.For conquest it's activley foolish to focus on cap points on the small maps because fighting short handed is always idiotic.

So essentially with the game we actually have you would expect a non combat light mech to do something useful about how often? When the map is not small and not skirmish mode...so maybe 25% of the time a "scout" light mech has a purpose in quick play solo queue and even then in that 20% of matches the "scout's" role is useful for about 25% of the actual playtime in that match so what is that about 1/8th of the time it's worth maybe having a light mech on a team?

And you need to grasp that you are saying that by piloting a light mech you need to forgo proper rewards in XP and C-bills because fighting and dealing damage is how you earn in this game.

And by that logic one could dictate a narrow focus for any weight class.

No LRMs on medium mechs they are for skirmishing and brawling only!

Assault mechs shouldn't have too much speed and be limited to 65 kph or so because skirmishing is for medium mechs.

Sounds kinda silly when applied to those examples.

When ever I see some assault jokey complaining about light mechs and assuming that killing an assault mech in a light mech is a cake walk all I have to say is ...

It's only easy when pilots like them make it so.

Learn how to pilot defensivley.

Don't chase a light into it's turn to try to draw a bead on them. Instead reverse direction and counter steer against the light mech's rotation. If the light mech is circling clockwise you reverse and turn counter clockwise. The objective is to constantly alter the the possition of the center of the circle the light mech's path is making by shifting the focal point (you) from the current center while also cutting across the light's path by counter rotating putting them in front of you.

Failing that,put your backside against something and force the light to approach into your field of fire.

Don't panic.

Call for help and be clear and concise about where and why.

Pack a UAV. If you have a light mech on you fire off the UAV. Now you can see where it's moving to without having to stop moving to use siesmics. Also if you called for help and your team has LRMs in range that light will disengage or die.

Do not doddle at the DZ. If you fall behind on one of the smaller maps the risk of being backstabbed by a light is higher.

When dropped with other assault mechs maintain a defesive formation and communication. I may as a lone light mech try to sack a lone assault.I will not risk taking on two.

it's only fair because those light pilots that are killing assaults had to learn.

Evasive manuvering to remain unnoticed as they sneak behind enemy lines.

Target selection to know what is a good target and what isn't (mechs with jumpjets are certainly less tastey than ground pounders. for example)

How to evade a circling target by altering speed and heading.

How to evade detection on seismic sensors.

When to run away

[McMurl]

Light mechs are for scouting, not for fighting. lights are supposed to snipe, not to brawl. End of discussion.

Unfortunetly scouting has no value in this game, so yeah. You would never expect a jeep with a 30cal to take on an Abrams MBT. Why would that be different in MWO?

[adamts01]

grievoussmaug, on 01 July 2016 - 12:39 AM, said:

Light mechs are for scouting, not for fighting. lights are supposed to snipe, not to brawl. End of discussion.

Unfortunetly scouting has no value in this game, so yeah. You would never expect a jeep with a 30cal to take on an Abrams MBT. Why would that be different in MWO?

You answered your own question. The only job PGI has manage to create is fighting. I do wish there was another role, there just isn't, and more than likely won't be. Regardless, plenty of lights were historically fighters of bigger mechs, just like that same jeep with a TOW missile killed tanks. Start over.

[Joey Tankblaster]

grievoussmaug, on 01 July 2016 - 12:39 AM, said:

Light mechs are for scouting, not for fighting. lights are supposed to snipe, not to brawl. End of discussion.

Unfortunetly scouting has no value in this game, so yeah. You would never expect a jeep with a 30cal to take on an Abrams MBT. Why would that be different in MWO?

So if lights can't fight anymore (except of other lights) and can't scout, because game mechanics does not reward it, why do they not completely remove this weight class from the game?