146 replies to this topic

[EvilCow]

Artwork and the basic combat engine are excellent.

Stability is OKish.

Netcode is acceptable.

Balance is better than it has ever been but there is space for improvements.

FW/CW suffers from a too narrow vision of what the game should be, it is not epic as it should:
- Small maps, no need for scouts or other roles.
- Short missions, not like a real battle.
- Choke points, always the same, you know where the enemy is coming from.
- No purpose for classes, it is just combat around the gates. It is just guessing will it be left or rights side this time? yawn..
- Just two mission types, very repetitive.
- Longtom made things worse.

Now lets try exactly the opposite:
- Huge maps with random spawns and random objectives for attackers (scouts needed on both sides).
- Long missions, lets say at least one hour.
- No choke points.
- Class specific-roles, you should not want to drop all lights, all heavies, all assaults, all LRMs, all lasers, all anything.
- Random objectives can become multiple mission types: generators, bases, a player's mech, an antenna dish, etc, the objective/objectives types should be multiple and in any combination. For example: "destroy antenna dish somewhere in the combat zone THEN find the generator and destroy it THEN disable the enemy commander mech without destroying it. Defenders should not have full info about attackers objectives, it should go from 0% to 100% depending on intelligence status of the planet. It would be like a new game each time.

Please add epic.

Edited by EvilCow, 29 June 2016 - 06:27 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Blakkstar, on 29 June 2016 - 06:13 AM, said:

I totally agree with your premise here. Heck I still pull out the original Mechwarrior game every now and then because it has RPG elements and the feel of running a small unit built around the combat. I don't think that's ever going to get built into this game in any meaningful way though. MMOs just don't do PVE content well. If somebody crowdfunds MW5 I'm signing up instantly, but a slow stream of (what would doubtlessly be) clunky PVE missions isn't really going to transform this game.

I also disagree that arena combat (Solaris) would turn off veteran players. It's a significant part of the lore and fits perfectly into the F2P MMO game model.

PVE missions alone wont do it your right. It has to be from login onward. For new players this could include some kind of interesting repeatable mission/tutorial that even long time players could "grind" through for some creds and exp if they wanted to. Then PVE dlc on top.

The current tutorial is excellent but presented so badly. It really should be faction specific on the players home world in an "academy" setting. Or not even academy setting but something with character, it would be different for pirates or mercs for example. Some imagination here would be great. It couldn't be more generic than it is right now. Which again says a lot about the state of the game as a whole.

Edited by Johnny Z, 29 June 2016 - 06:30 AM.

[Tiger Dad]

I'm not a hardcore player. But I enjoy the game. It's QP is fun cause sometimes with my kids and work, it's all I have time for. I haven't touched FP in awhile except for the scouting event awhile ago. I did enjoy FP when I did it. I got rofl stomped a lot because I played single player FP. The concept is great. I didn't join with my team because I would just drag them down in a group queue. Losing in PUGS in FP is expected, a win is awesome.
The main issue I've been having is lag and large FPS drops. But that may just be me and my internet provider or potato laptop.
I support the game and the incremental improvements. I am a bit worried about PGI adding too much to make everyone happy. Too many things makes too many things to support. Core gameplay is important and it's up to PGI with input from community to see what that is. I've spent money and will spend more but I'm not married to MWO. I'll provide input on what I'm interested in and if it's not the direction I want, I'll still try it. It may change my mind. I'm not the smartest guy in the forum. But if it's not great and a turndown, I will walk away.
But in the end, I like the illusion of Lore. I like Battletech. I like my teammates and some of the players that I see online and in forums. But it's not RL. If it's too much of a pain to enjoy, find something else to do to relax and wish the best to everyone still involved.
-Tiger Dad

[DivineEvil]

- Gameplay is solid and engaging. There's not a single game, that fuses a 1st-Person Shooter with simulation aspects and damage system in any similar degree, which makes MWO unique in its own right. Like majority of online games, MWO requires you to make breaks to reignite the interest in the same playing experience. Otherwise, running the same core game modes becomes repetetive over time, even if a strong unit community works as a supporting structure, but that is true for all games.

- Visual content is exceptional for the scale of the game. Mech design, sounds and particle effects are substantial part of the game's success. Map design became much more polished and smart. MWO still misses the optional in-game music, lack meaningful environmental effects and minor changes to camera behaviors to improve player experience.

- MWO base game balance is still questionable and doesn't recieve the attention it is desperately needs. Despite having PTS environment available, very few attempts are made to bring underperforming weapons into active service. Base heat management values were and still are mathematically invalid, causing the entire combat structure to behave unruly and being affected unfavorably by changes to weapon parameters.

- Mech balance is in bad shape as well. Quirks are placed randomly around variants with no underlying methodology for what quirks with what values should go to which mech. This removes the idea of unique character for vastly different mechs, and narrow player's choices to specific variants with particular bonuses for specific parameters. That undermines the very concept PGI had planned to follow in rebalancing the mechs, which they've abandoned for no apparent reason.

- The only way CW would work, is if it being designed as a whole overlay of access to player's earned content. Invasion requires mission variety, and former Mech Commander games can be used as reference for these missions concepts. Even a single CW game mode we have is not plays fairly for defenders - they always has to defeat the entirety of invading armies in either defense or counter-attack, and cannot recapture the sector if there's no opponents to fight with.

[Johnny Z]

Tiger Dad, on 29 June 2016 - 06:26 AM, said:

I'm not a hardcore player. But I enjoy the game. It's QP is fun cause sometimes with my kids and work, it's all I have time for. I haven't touched FP in awhile except for the scouting event awhile ago. I did enjoy FP when I did it. I got rofl stomped a lot because I played single player FP. The concept is great. I didn't join with my team because I would just drag them down in a group queue. Losing in PUGS in FP is expected, a win is awesome.
The main issue I've been having is lag and large FPS drops. But that may just be me and my internet provider or potato laptop.
I support the game and the incremental improvements. I am a bit worried about PGI adding too much to make everyone happy. Too many things makes too many things to support. Core gameplay is important and it's up to PGI with input from community to see what that is. I've spent money and will spend more but I'm not married to MWO. I'll provide input on what I'm interested in and if it's not the direction I want, I'll still try it. It may change my mind. I'm not the smartest guy in the forum. But if it's not great and a turndown, I will walk away.
But in the end, I like the illusion of Lore. I like Battletech. I like my teammates and some of the players that I see online and in forums. But it's not RL. If it's too much of a pain to enjoy, find something else to do to relax and wish the best to everyone still involved.
-Tiger Dad

Core game play has been excellent since day one and still is. Minus serious balance problems that are mostly gone. Even the mechbay itself minus all the other things cluttering it is excellent now.

Its everything else that needs attention for the most part.

[STEF_]

El Bandito, on 29 June 2016 - 06:09 AM, said:

Weapon balance is better than ever, but that's mostly because it was never decent before.

really?

LRM is ok when compared with energy and ballistic?
MG?

[El Bandito]

Stefka Kerensky, on 29 June 2016 - 06:41 AM, said:

really?

LRM is ok when compared with energy and ballistic?
MG?

I said better than ever. I never said it is perfect.

Edited by El Bandito, 29 June 2016 - 06:49 AM.

[TheLuc]

oh sorry just wanted to add that despite the repetition, why is Gundam breaker seem more fun ? I think I`d play that more if it wasn't just in Japanese....

[Johnny Z]

About faction play. Someone at NGNG hinted that it wouldn't be bad if players just queued for that like QP. I agree. The alerts are great but maybe used in a different way. Its really just spam now anyway. Maybe alerts for important stuff?

Edited by Johnny Z, 29 June 2016 - 07:09 AM.

[TheLuc]

Johnny Z, on 29 June 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

About faction play. Someone at NGNG hinted that it wouldn't be bad if players just queued for that like QP. I agree. The alerts are great but maybe used in a different way.

well make it fun and quick without choke points, might get more players...

putting all fault on the community is proof of bad game design.

[Lehmund]

I've never played any of the other MW games before. My closest connection to MW has been the game Hawken, which I thought was very well done for stompy robot combat, but it did get repetitive and grindy after a while.

On the other hand a Hawken vs MWO comparison should be made since Hawken has a decent active population, it being a Free to play model that is almost entirely PvP (PvE matches are readily available but the bots are either way too easy or way too repetitive ==> no campaign or storyline).

In a nutshell MWO >>> Hawken in my opinion because:

• MWO has a story to it through lore, factions and the like that gives it some depth (even though we can all agree that this aspect could be significantly deepened)
  
• It has more maps
  
• Mechs are customizable and offer a great many options + there are many more of them.
  
• There are more different modes of play between the different QP modes, FW invasion + scouting. Though as far as game mode quality, Hawken wins... for now.
  
• Way more weapon variety and more complex combat system.
  
• FW has the potential to become a truly big thing if PGI continues to improve and listen to player feedback. Hawken has nothing like it... not one bit.
  
• Units, loyalists, mercs etc....

I get the criticism though but I believe PGI is doing what they can to improve on the title. After close to 700 hours of gameplay myself in only 3 months or so, I still don't feel sated mostly thanks to the Unit I joined and the FW component/training we are going through to reach goals as a unit and faction.

As long as PGI continues to make intelligent improvements or attempts at such, I can ride it out and work with my new Unit friends towards common goals.

I also try to often post here some intelligent recommendations or criticism to help things out. That,s where the community can come together to improve on a game that is already pretty good.

Certainly doesn't feel like Beta to me with the QP we have. FW is obviously Beta and there is no secret about it with Wave deliveries and the last major overhaul + talks of more changes to come, but that's fine.

[Bud Crue]

I started playing because cw dropped (I'd been waiting) and because this is the only battletech/Mechwarrior game. I continue to play because of the latter, and because I enjoy playing with my unit mates and finally because the mechs are cool. Game itself has become almost tangential.

[Bishop Steiner]

Stagnant. Stale. Poorly balanced. Zero immersion. Too much focus fire, too low a ttk, but PGI is trying to address that in all the wrong ways.

Plays like a twitch shooter designed for three toed sloths with special needs.


And most certainly NOT a Battletech Game.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 29 June 2016 - 07:44 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Balance/Gameplay is my main problem.

Basic gameplay is definitely Mechwarrior, but it never feels like they are trying to expand it or add to it, they just keep trying to "fix" (read:convolute) the current gameplay. This touches on balance, because so many mechs are redundant, mechs aren't unique enough imo. Weight classes are another problem, if they are going to be used as ways to force variety in drop dec loadouts, mechs need to be balanced/designed around that when they never were in Battletech, thus why we have Cicadas, Ice Ferrets, and Black Lanners that are basically giant lights in the medium class but you also have Adders/Kit Foxes that are lighter and worse mediums.

A secondary problem is I want more maps, I miss the MW4 days where we had 50+ maps, while another problem is both the monetization options are rather dearth (seriously where is my special geometry options ) and the mechs that are monetized are a bit outrageous in prices even compared to the prior mega-packs (being a terrible whale, I preferred the big packs).

Another problem is lack of awesome options for private servers (and the fact they require premium), if they had focused on that instead of FP and just given better visibility to third-party planetary leagues (NBT/Proxis) I would've been much more ok with that.

Then their is the lack of a ranked queue, that way teams like mine could stop being hassled about which queue were currently playing in (CW'ers ask why we aren't playing QP, and QP'ers ask why we aren't playing CW )

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 June 2016 - 08:05 AM.

[M T]

Bad, very bad.

Apparently in a GAME, a multiplayer game where **** should be equalized for fun for everyone, they decide to just scale some mechs here and there because of what? Lore? I dont even know why. We do all know it does in fact affect balance in a very negative way.

The new maps are **** and full of clutter as well, and to make it worse they dont leave the old maps in.

Faction play is a dead horse except for the few 12 man's that roflstomp over and over.

[Summon3r]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 29 June 2016 - 05:32 AM, said:

Honestly? I'm not playing much anymore. It's been years and PGI still hasn't made any engaging complex game modes. FW is dull at best and feels like having your balls sandpapered raw at worst.

Ultimately... PGI ****** themselves by choosing cryengine. Yes it was the onyl one they could afford, but that one choice basically killed mwo's chances of being anything more than arena deathmatch.

I'll be around still. Do a few drops a week... but the joy and excitement is gone and honestly... if PGI doesn't do somehting to make FW interesting mwo is dead because it's never gonna be an esport. Still it's the only battletech game around... for now. Once HBS game comes out... I might be done for good.

pretty much this exactly, except i cant even bring myself to log in once a month anymore.

Bishop Steiner, on 29 June 2016 - 07:43 AM, said:

Stagnant. Stale. Poorly balanced. Zero immersion. Too much focus fire, too low a ttk, but PGI is trying to address that in all the wrong ways.

Plays like a twitch shooter designed for three toed sloths with special needs.


And most certainly NOT a Battletech Game.

exactly

[Murphy7]

Bishop has the right of it. It is not really a Battletech game, but it is the closest thing to it I have on my computer.

I may be well off base with this, but I think they have hit the limits of what they can get done with the current engine. Real change or improvements in game play with larger maps, destructible terrain (why can't I crash my mech through a building yet?!?), and more immersive objectives will likely need to be built on a more efficient engine.

One thing I think MWO has succeeded at is demonstrating that there is a consumer base for this IP that is loyal and profligate in its spending. Joke all you want about mech packs, many of us have been buying them.

[TLBFestus]

I don't have all the answers, but my wife does so let me ask her and get back to you.


Kidding aside, I think that the problems were built into the foundation of the game back when IGP was calling the shots. They wanted to push this sucker out the door and start making money so they went with the first ideas that popped into someones head and we are basically stuck with them even now;

A poorly conceived skill tree that focuses on mechs not pilots.

Lack of immersion when not in a match, ie. static mech bays, no emphasis on the lore, etc.

CW that's basically static with choke point maps (OK...PGI can own this one as IGP was gone).



With the current population size I don't think PGI can afford to tackle these, even one of these, without it taking an inordinately long time, and that's another problem.

I always pictured CW as a scenario like this:

Two teams drop on a map (a large map in this case...but variety would be nice). As the mechs start up each team gets their mission parameters.

"A drop ship was damaged and forced to jettison 3 cargo pods in order to reach orbit. These pods are full of valuable equipment and must be located, marked for pick up and defended against the enemy. These materials are valuable for the fight to control this continent, good luck mech warrior!"

[Bishop Steiner]

Murphy7, on 29 June 2016 - 08:26 AM, said:

Bishop has the right of it. It is not really a Battletech game, but it is the closest thing to it I have on my computer.

I may be well off base with this, but I think they have hit the limits of what they can get done with the current engine. Real change or improvements in game play with larger maps, destructible terrain (why can't I crash my mech through a building yet?!?), and more immersive objectives will likely need to be built on a more efficient engine.

One thing I think MWO has succeeded at is demonstrating that there is a consumer base for this IP that is loyal and profligate in its spending. Joke all you want about mech packs, many of us have been buying them.

the current engine probably does limit a lot...but a lot of choices made early that were not engine restricted led us to where we are.

Pinpoint instant converging accuracy on a game with each mech firing multiple weapons, and of course, large teams focus firing.

Too open a mechlab.

Meaningless heatscale.

Led to things like doubled armor, instant obsolescence of chassis, impossibility of implementing roles, etc.

That is the IMO, the issue. When you start the game in the wrong direction in the first place...eventually you end up somewhere besides where you were hoping to get.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 29 June 2016 - 09:21 AM.

[Murphy7]

Where PGI should not be left off the hook at any point with this game:

CONVERGENCE. They acknowledged this as a mechanic they were going to work on and realized it's importance in the game from the very beginning of closed beta. The filler "pinpoint" firing skill box was a place holder for when convergence of disparate weapon systems and locations was to be an issue.

DEPTH. Gameplay has been stagnant primarily because so much focus has been on bringing in new mechs, and the design of the game modes has been severely limited by map making limitations, net code issues, and perpetual issues with balance that have been exacerbated by pushing out new mechs and purchasing models to keep the money flowing. From a business standpoint, they need more and continuous mech development, and the game in which those mechs are used is a cost for them, not a source of income.

Edited by Murphy7, 29 June 2016 - 09:22 AM.