298 replies to this topic

[Hunter Watzas]

If it is removed it needs to be replaced with some other "max scouting" mechanic.

I would love to see a artillery barrage mechanic instead. The attackers have 6 charges of artillery barrage and can basically call in a set of artillery large enough to fill an entire grid like the "user" artillery mechanic.

Or only allow arty/airstrike modules in matches were you have the "arty" support.

What I hate about Long Tom
1: It looks like **** in game. Sure mushroom cloud is okay but it doesn't feel like there is a massive explosion. You just see a bunch of mechs die. Animations need to be cleaned up and maybe make a better scar on the ground, a crater, or something.

2: Its cooldown seems to be somewhere around 1:45-2:00. It has the potential to destroy the entire team if closely packed or forces players to spread out and be easy targets for the enemy team.

3: It crushes peoples hopes and dreams. It should help the team with it but it shouldn't be providing a 90% guarantee on victory.

How to nerf it
Increase cooldown (less number of shots per match) to 6 minutes, basically meaning 1 arty per wave
Prevent Arty drops for the first 4 minutes of the game. (so drops at 4, 10, 16, 22, 28 minutes but with a bit more randomness perhaps instead of automatic)
or
Give the enemy commander the ability to launch the arty strike and choose a location
Cooldown 4 minutes
Only 4 Uses

[Scarlet Tempest]

I would love them to rework it.. But I have lost all faith in the devs to do that well.. :/ So just remove it.. If this can get past QA then anything they implement could be just as bad if not worse.

I don't care what ever excuse they have for it is a joke. I am 100% sure the devs if they even did QA this never saw a team win against long tom. There is no physically possible way they thought it was winnable against. It would have to take a 12 man of blind one armed monkeys that only hit the W key to loose when you have long tom.

Even premades the best we have gotten a bout 40 kills Sure it might not be impossible, but it's pretty damn close. Anything that makes a match near a 100% chance to win for that side is just a complete failure of game design on the most basic levels.

Guys I got an idea how a bout this. We make a hero mech that costs 500$ and can boat 5 HAG 40s and is the only mech in the game that can carry HAG 40s. Oh and ontop of it.. we will give it the highest armor in the game.. Yea that sounds like a good idea lets do that and not think for a moment or QA it at all. <--- PGI logic.

[Big Tin Man]

Other way to nerf it: move it from 90% scouting (540/600) to 95% (570/600) or even higher.

I do love that this entire conversation here is 'Long Tom sucks and is ruining Invasion,' yet nobody is discussing WHY so many long toms are showing up because scouting is BROKEN.

[WANTED]

Most games with these super weapons, restrict use to one time or a very long cool
Down time. I voted to remove it cause I want to fight rather than use Long Tom to win.

[PFC Carsten]

Remove LT and instead allow Arty/Air strikes only for the team that has them enabled via scouting. That's enough of an advantage in my books, yet one that a good team has a chance to overcome.

Reasoning:
- LT is a nuke, it violates the Ares convention. What's next? Planetary bombardement for 100% scouting, resulting in InstaWins?
- LT is per lore good against fortifications, not for firing into a raging battle.
- No sane commander would send his troops into a mission with that kind of artillery, insta-killing 4 or more at times
- No sane artillery command would fire regardlessly whether or not they hit their own troops (difference to an arty/air strike: Here the pilot actively wants the strike to happen right there)

[Celtic Warrior]

They should replace it with an "Advanced Hardware" option or something like that, call it what you want. This will give the team who owns the AH an option when dropping on a specific map to choose either

• Upgraded heat sinks
  
• UAC -20 jam chance
  
• -20 Laser duration
  
• or something...

This would still make scouting viable but not god tom OP! Just some thoughts I had on it.

Edited by Celtic Warrior, 05 July 2016 - 10:07 AM.

[Baulven]

PFC Carsten, on 05 July 2016 - 09:57 AM, said:

Remove LT and instead allow Arty/Air strikes only for the team that has them enabled via scouting. That's enough of an advantage in my books, yet one that a good team has a chance to overcome.

Reasoning:
- LT is a nuke, it violates the Ares convention. What's next? Planetary bombardement for 100% scouting, resulting in InstaWins?
- LT is per lore good against fortifications, not for firing into a raging battle.
- No sane commander would send his troops into a mission with that kind of artillery, insta-killing 4 or more at times
- No sane artillery command would fire regardlessly whether or not they hit their own troops (difference to an arty/air strike: Here the pilot actively wants the strike to happen right there)

As an aside in real life there are instances artillery has been called for to drop on fighting positions in danger of being overrun. If the commander deams that the risks are worth the rewards he can sacrifice his entire troop compliment in the name of victory. It isn't a happy to lucky answer but it is the truth.

[WVAnonymous]

Give the LT to the team commander as an artillery consumable that is called like regular artillery, just really freaking big regular artillery, and the commander can call it once per mech like other consumables.

If the commander is a lousy targeter, oh well. If he (or she) TKs four mechs, they pay the penalty.

I think this addresses most of the problems with LT.

[Big Tin Man]

WVAnonymous, on 05 July 2016 - 11:48 AM, said:

Give the LT to the team commander as an artillery consumable that is called like regular artillery, just really freaking big regular artillery, and the commander can call it once per mech like other consumables.

If the commander is a lousy targeter, oh well. If he (or she) TKs four mechs, they pay the penalty.

I think this addresses most of the problems with LT.

Not practical to call it like a regular arty when LT has a 300m blast radius, because you'll likely be in range. Target it from the map.

[Baulven]

Celtic Warrior, on 05 July 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

They should replace it with an &quot;Advanced Hardware&quot; option or something like that, call it what you want. This will give the team who owns the AH an option when dropping on a specific map to choose either

• Upgraded heat sinks
  
• UAC -20 jam chance
  
• -20 Laser duration
  
• or something...

This would still make scouting viable but not god tom OP! Just some thoughts I had on it.

Why would scouting a planet have an effect on your weapons?

[Iron Buccaneer]

Nerf it. Even nerf it down to a regular arty strike but don't get rid of it. NPC mechanics should NOT destroy fresh mechs even fresh lights.

[Baulven]

It should be 25 points per location at point blank, 15 points per location between 60-150m and 5 points per locatio. 150m-300m. It should be easy on the love to avoid the majority of the damage but it shouldn't be Scot free every time.

[WVAnonymous]

Big Tin Man, on 05 July 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

Not practical to call it like a regular arty when LT has a 300m blast radius, because you'll likely be in range. Target it from the map.

I'm amenable to your amendment. Targeting from the map would actually make the map have some useful purpose...

[MischiefSC]

If scouting provides critical advantage then scouting > invasion. That means scouting balance is more critical than invasion balance, which it currently isn't. People will 0kay scouting cuz 4mans. You don't want the scout queue to shut down invasion any more than you want invasion to shut down scouting.

[GalahadVGL13]

I would like to see scouting result in some more interesting effects. Like keep the combat ID, that's cool, but at higher levels have it open gates or take turrets offline. Or simply add an extra strike to each player (that would be my least favorite option).
Add raider missions to spawn ammo/coolant trucks at base for reload or quick cool.
maybe slow Opfor respawn counters.
Also please increase the scouting rewards for data collection.
Heck, throw in an "enemy avoided" bonus is you make it out totally clean.

Most of these ideas do not require drastic changes to the game as played. I'm not sure what code hassles they would cause, but I feel like these things would make the mode more interesting.

[Khalcruth]

Hunter Watzas, on 05 July 2016 - 09:51 AM, said:

If it is removed it needs to be replaced with some other "max scouting" mechanic.

Why? Why isn't the Combat ID and Satellite Support good enough as-is? If you use the information that they give you, the combination of the two is plenty powerful already. Why does it need to get better than that?

[50 50]

I can understand wanting a significant benefit for getting the scouting value up to 90% plus.
Achieving that takes time and real dedication on the part of the scouts and it is such a tug of war in that mode that with dedicated scouts on both side it would usually end up in a stalemate.
So... I understand having the long tom as such a powerful benefit to the team that has it.... so with that in mind I say leave it in game. Perhaps tweak it a little, but it is meant to be a deciding factor in the battles.

However, the 2 biggest problems I see with the long tom are:

• it takes the actual fighting away from the players - it is the game winning the battle for you. Though at the stage where you may finally get the long tom, it could just finish off the victory or could be the turning tide.
  
• it is just as dangerous to your own side as it is to the enemy because we have no control over it's use. This isn't such a problem as it really means changing the way you then fight the battles and engage the enemy.

While I would prefer to see faction play changed around more from the whole 'match' concept to a proper battle and would see scouting, invasion and these features managed differently, I will suggest the following options:

• Give the control of all the scouting benefits to the commander so they are player controlled or introduce a 13th player as a strategic commander that can use these functions and more.

OR

• Make it more like an extended artillery strike that covers a line across the map so it can be used as a tool to advance and force the enemy to re-position.... though perhaps this could be a different consumable.... the 'Barrage'!!

OR

• Change it to an Arrow 4 bombardment that targets the dropships, destroys them spectacularly and delays the drop. (doesn't destroy the mechs, but a delay in reinforcements arriving would be a significant advantage... maybe we could get this anyway?)

All that said, it does work as a significant benefit for a faction that has been able to effectively take control with scouting.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I say... Arrow IV barrage. Targets enemy Mechs, deals 20 + 10 + 10 damage (adjacent hitbox damage like CERPPCs). Can be hidden from with use of cover. Target a portion of the enemy team, not all 12 Mechs, but either the 6-8 that are in closest proximity to eachother, or the 6 enemy Mechs that are closest to your spawn point.

[Thejuggla]

If their competency hasn't changed remove it, if has increased fix it.

[WANTED]

What about ECM for all mechs on that team for limited time. Instead of offense you get ECM passive defense.